Canada announces preliminary roster for Gold Cup

[Grizzly]

You're going to have to be right less if you want the title of #1 Lord Bob troll.

It is a highly contested prestigious title so Blackdude better get his **** together and start pissing you off more!

[Blackdude]

It is a highly contested prestigious title so Blackdude better get his **** together and start pissing you off more!

Every time I post, I troll Bobbo twice.

[David C.]

To be honest, my biggest concern with De Rosario is that since he had that knee injury that put him out of the WCQ last year, he hasn't quite been the same. At mid 30s those nagging injuries can really effect you. But that is guessing to be fair, for all I know Dwayne thinks he's in the best shape of his life. Putting two and two together a bit and wondering if he hasn't been 100% for a long time. Retirement isn't that far away.

Interesting to read the ongoing discussion on deRosario.

To me, Madmonte's point above might be the one that needs more emphasis. deRo is having an awful year this season at DC (from what I've read) and it may be possible that the wheels are starting to fall off a tired old body, that has logged an awful lot of miles over the years. If it's decided (by those who know far more about the situation that I) that deRo won't really help us in the Gold Cup, then we may be best served to simply move on and work with others who can (and who will form the nucleus for the next round of WC qualifying).

We actually have a lot of emerging, young, offensive players to work with (for a change). Jackson and Ricketts are the most established of the young ones and will certainly be included. Cavallini, Edwini-Bonsu and Marcus Haber are shoe-ins as well. Issey NF is in his prime. Teibert, Porter and Osorio are really making names for themselves this season. And the CSA might be eager to cap Aleman and Fraser, if they can. That doesn't leave a lot of roster space for someone (deRo) whose best days may be far behind him.

Hmm...

[Keegan]

To be honest, my biggest concern with De Rosario is that since he had that knee injury that put him out of the WCQ last year, he hasn't quite been the same. At mid 30s those nagging injuries can really effect you. But that is guessing to be fair, for all I know Dwayne thinks he's in the best shape of his life. Putting two and two together a bit and wondering if he hasn't been 100% for a long time. Retirement isn't that far away.

I thought he looked to be the same old DeRo (or reasonably close to it given the circumstances) in the two January friendlies. But it seems he's had some nagging injury/injuries that have kept him from being 100% so far in the MLS season. Regardless of our opinions I believe he's a lock to be named to the Gold Cup squad (and I think even those who don't want him would agree). The man has done a TON for the game in this country and I'd definitely like to see him given his chance to lead this young squad, but it seems I'm in the minority here.

Look, even if DeRosario doesn't catch fire this season (and he has every single season up until now) this will be his first poor season in MLS. I still wouldn't put it past him to bounce back in 2014 with another team in another role. The guy is an enigma, you can't count him out. Ever.

[afun]

You're not in the minority. Even mlssoccer.com had an article about him being one of the best MLS players of all-time. Try looking at his accomplishments compared to others.

And please no more ignorant comparisons to Wondo/USA vs DeRo/Canada. DeRo maybe similar to Wondo as in a great MLS player but Canada is not similar to the US in terms of player depth and skill.

[madmonte]

I thought he looked to be the same old DeRo (or reasonably close to it given the circumstances) in the two January friendlies. But it seems he's had some nagging injury/injuries that have kept him from being 100% so far in the MLS season. Regardless of our opinions I believe he's a lock to be named to the Gold Cup squad (and I think even those who don't want him would agree). The man has done a TON for the game in this country and I'd definitely like to see him given his chance to lead this young squad, but it seems I'm in the minority here.

Look, even if DeRosario doesn't catch fire this season (and he has every single season up until now) this will be his first poor season in MLS. I still wouldn't put it past him to bounce back in 2014 with another team in another role. The guy is an enigma, you can't count him out. Ever.

I still want him to get a chance in the squad too...but I do wonder if he's got nagging injuries. Not saying he can't work hard and bounce back. But I agree with you about De Ro, he's an amazing player.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

I would imagine DeRo could become a great manager, he isa student of the game. That is the reason you can never count him out. He will always be dangerous when he plays because of his soccer IQ, and work ethic.

I believe as soon as opposing clubs count him out as declining and not a priority for aggressive marking is the time you see him bounce back.

[Grizzly]

I would imagine DeRo could become a great manager, he isa student of the game. That is the reason you can never count him out. He will always be dangerous when he plays because of his soccer IQ, and work ethic.

I believe as soon as opposing clubs count him out as declining and not a priority for aggressive marking is the time you see him bounce back.

DeRo a student of the game? The guy is a torment for managers because he is never able to stay in one position or stick to an assigned tactical role. To use him effectively you have to make sure the other players are able to provide cover because you never know where he will be on the pitch. DeRo has athletic ability and natural skills which he has lived on throughout his career but a million obvious flaws that he has never managed or possibly even tried to train out of himself. When he had opportunities in environments in which he could have learned to be a proper footballer and use his skill effectively he either turned them down or did not stick it out.

He is easy to shut down, just ask our international opponents such as the Hondurans. He succeeds in MLS because his skill level is above most of the players in particular the defensive players and if a few defenders are near his level he just goes through the weak link since MLS teams have a large variety of ability. Once the players on a team are consistently at his level he gets shut down completely and has no solutions for breaking down the defence. He is not a player who looks at the field and understands the tactical formation and how to deal with it. He runs around like a chicken without a head and constantly searches for an opportunity. If he had been able to combine his natural abilities with a good soccer IQ he would have been playing in a major European league years ago. Even at 35 years old he is still a raw talent that he never been refined. He is the exact opposite of an intelligent player with a high soccer IQ.

Unless DeRo is able to get players to play in a tactical formation in a way that he never did, to have more desire and discipline to be the best and play in the best leagues that he did not have and to be less egotistical than he was he will never amount to much as a coach.

[Wingback6]

DeRo a student of the game? The guy is a torment for managers because he is never able to stay in one position or stick to an assigned tactical role. To use him effectively you have to make sure the other players are able to provide cover because you never know where he will be on the pitch. DeRo has athletic ability and natural skills which he has lived on throughout his career but a million obvious flaws that he has never managed or possibly even tried to train out of himself. When he had opportunities in environments in which he could have learned to be a proper footballer and use his skill effectively he either turned them down or did not stick it out.

He is easy to shut down, just ask our international opponents such as the Hondurans. He succeeds in MLS because his skill level is above most of the players in particular the defensive players and if a few defenders are near his level he just goes through the weak link since MLS teams have a large variety of ability. Once the players on a team are consistently at his level he gets shut down completely and has no solutions for breaking down the defence. He is not a player who looks at the field and understands the tactical formation and how to deal with it. He runs around like a chicken without a head and constantly searches for an opportunity. If he had been able to combine his natural abilities with a good soccer IQ he would have been playing in a major European league years ago. Even at 35 years old he is still a raw talent that he never been refined. He is the exact opposite of an intelligent player with a high soccer IQ.

Unless DeRo is able to get players to play in a tactical formation in a way that he never did, to have more desire and discipline to be the best and play in the best leagues that he did not have and to be less egotistical than he was he will never amount to much as a coach.

I agree with you, for the most part. But I disagree in that in the final third he understands the game well. Not just as an opportunist. He brings his teammates into the attack, has good passing vision and can still make moves off the ball. This is what distinguishes him from other attackers. He is at the end of the day, a second striker or 'False 9' as it were. And these players tend to be very hard to fit into a system, not just DeRo. Ask Ashley Young. He played as a 2nd striker with Bent, and was awesome. Got hired away by ManU as a result. Moved there, and played on the wing, terrible.

[madmonte]

I agree with you, for the most part. But I disagree in that in the final third he understands the game well. Not just as an opportunist. He brings his teammates into the attack, has good passing vision and can still make moves off the ball. This is what distinguishes him from other attackers. He is at the end of the day, a second striker or 'False 9' as it were. And these players tend to be very hard to fit into a system, not just DeRo. Ask Ashley Young. He played as a 2nd striker with Bent, and was awesome. Got hired away by ManU as a result. Moved there, and played on the wing, terrible.

And didn't Hart constantly slot De Ro into the roster as a winger? Just saying. Said it a lot already, but make the formation for the players your have, don't force the players you get into a formation you have.

[jpg75]

Dero plays much better as a winger for the MNT than he does as a withdrawn striker. When he's the focus of the attack he turns into a blackhole that swallows the ball up and turns it over to the other team.

[Grizzly]

I agree with you, for the most part. But I disagree in that in the final third he understands the game well. Not just as an opportunist. He brings his teammates into the attack, has good passing vision and can still make moves off the ball. This is what distinguishes him from other attackers. He is at the end of the day, a second striker or 'False 9' as it were. And these players tend to be very hard to fit into a system, not just DeRo. Ask Ashley Young. He played as a 2nd striker with Bent, and was awesome. Got hired away by ManU as a result. Moved there, and played on the wing, terrible.

No I don't even agree with this. With DeRo you can't just watch the plays were he succeeds you have to watch the numerous plays where he fails. He is just constantly trying things and a certain percentage of the time it works especially in MLS where he is given more time on the ball, the passing lanes are larger, the players are a bit slower etc than in international play. If you just look at the time when he did make a good pass to a teammate in scoring position he looks like a great passer and like he has vision. However, if you look at the whole game you realize most of the times when a teammate was in scoring position he didn't try to pass him the ball and lost it going one on one with the defender and those times when he did pass the pass was inaccurate and did not get to the player. But he constantly tries and probes the defence and eventually one time it works. I am not saying this is bad either nor is it one of his weaknesses but it is not indicative of a player with a high soccer IQ or good passing vision.

As much as I am not a DeRo fan I think he was the greatest soccer talent of his generation produced in Canada. He had the raw talent to have been the first Canadian soccer star playing on a good team in a major league. Unfortunately his career is full of missed opportunities to get the proper training required to hone his skills and get rid of bad habits. The missed opportunities range from turning down a youth contract with AC Milan, to coming back from Germany to play in the A league to turning down the Blackburn contract. And I won't bitch at him for those decision because I have no idea what was going on in his life at those times but from a Canadian soccer perspective it is tragic. And I have to say, I think if we could have put Stalteri's attitude together with DeRo's skill we would have had a world class player. Here is a small article on his AC Milan decision: http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/dc-united-star-de-rosario-why-i-rejected-ac-milan-2576221#.UbgRdD58uxM

The problem with DeRo is he came to MLS and was able to get by on his natural ability so he never had to work on his skill. He gets lots of time from the defenders so you don't notice how poor he receives passes or a poor first touch. He gets lots of opportunities in a game so even though many fail with enough tries a few of them succeed. And when he makes a bad decision on whether to try and go through a defender the guy who takes the ball does not make two quick passes which lead to a goal such as happens against teams like Honduras. He is the classic guy who is a 2nd division star but not a very good first division player and unfortunately for us when we play the better teams in CONCACAF it is a good step up from MLS. He gets shut down easily in international play and his 10 MLS chances turn into 2 and without accurate passing or shooting the 2 chances come to nothing.

[ThiKu]

Didn't the Blackburn coach quit because the board wouldn't let him sign the players he wanted, such as DeRo???

[Marc]

As much as I am not a DeRo fan I think he was the greatest soccer talent of his generation produced in Canada. He had the raw talent to have been the first Canadian soccer star playing on a good team in a major league. Unfortunately his career is full of missed opportunities to get the proper training required to hone his skills and get rid of bad habits. The missed opportunities range from turning down a youth contract with AC Milan, to coming back from Germany to play in the A league to turning down the Blackburn contract. And I won't bitch at him for those decision because I have no idea what was going on in his life at those times but from a Canadian soccer perspective it is tragic. And I have to say, I think if we could have put Stalteri's attitude together with DeRo's skill we would have had a world class player. Here is a small article on his AC Milan decision: http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/dc-united-star-de-rosario-why-i-rejected-ac-milan-2576221#.UbgRdD58uxM

I think your assessment of his abilities/frailties is spot on, and I think your line on the Stalteri commitment + DeRo skill is great, but the comment above is unfair. It's easy, lazy and biased to identify them as missed opportunities from afar and with hindsight. Look, I'm not a fan of his either, he's entitled and kinda lazy and full of himself, but his career choices show a level of self-awareness and astuteness that's impressive.

He's not the first Canadian kid to turn down a youth contract at a big club (Xausa anyone?) and as well know signing with one of those teams is no guarantee of anything (our list of lost youth is long). With his mentality, would he have even stuck it out?

If I recall correctly, he turned down contracts in China, Isreal and Hungary (three places that have largely been sinkholes for our guys, save for Hainault) and jumped ship from Zwickau after a year of Regionalla benchwarming (which is Canada's quicksand league for all the talents that disappeared into regional German soccer).

And his decision to leave Zwickau was actually quite astute given he played something like 10 or 15 games the first year, none the second year in the Regionalla, and Zwickau was a nobody team that is so dinky that today they're not even pro. He went to Richmond, did well, used that to go to the MLS and look at him now. Blackburn, yeah maybe, but if he had warmed the bench and came back with his tail between his legs (or an injury) and we could have just as easily criticized him for trading first team soccer for twelve weeks of well-paid benchwarming.

This guy started with the Lynx and has not only become of the dominant players in MLS. Yeah, he never reached the heights that we wanted him to and that he could have, but neither have most of our players. There've been more chances for him to become a Brad Park, or a Canizalez, or a Pozniak; or an Nsaliwa, or even a Jazic (and he's no slouch). DeRosario might be a jerk, but he's done exceptionally well with what he has and better than 99.99% percent of his peers.

[narduch]

The attacks on De Rosario are symbolic of everything that is wrong with Canadian soccer.

We favour hard working grunts over creative/flair players because god forbid a creative player loses the ball trying to actually attack.

[tmcmurph]

The attacks on De Rosario are symbolic of everything that is wrong with Canadian soccer.

We favour hard working grunts over creative/flair players because god forbid a creative player loses the ball trying to actually attack.

+1 ^

What he said!

[ken]

Didn't the Blackburn coach quit because the board wouldn't let him sign the players he wanted, such as DeRo???

Funny, I thought that the story was about Kevin Keegan and Manchester City -this is before the current billionaire owners- and not Blackburn at all.

[madmonte]

If you have a predisposed bias to see something, when you watch the game, that is what you will see. If you look for De Ro to do all the things said, such as look to create and then fail at the end, you WILL see it. But you will see the same watching every soccer player in the world, if you are looking for it, because such is the game. Including Messi, even, just way less often! The difference is how often you are successful, and how far off your misses are. A lot of people praised REB but what I saw was burning guys and a missed end product. Maybe that's because it was what I was looking for.

Such is the sport. The comments you made about De Ro, and watching him during a game, to me can be made about any player. DEFINITELY any player on the Canadian roster. So the question is, who is De Ro's replacement, and are they better as of right now?

Under that logic, some may argue there are guys worthy of starting over De Ro, but it's very hard to not give him a call up. You want the best players at camp for training...not JUST experience (which he has plenty of), but just to increase the overall average level of play on the pitch during training sessions. To up expectations.

Flat out...Canada's camp looks less talented without De Ro than it looks WITH De Ro...for me that it starts and ends with that for competitions where you want to bring your best. You can argue against it, but then you have to find 23 players better than Dwayne wearing the red, and I think that is hard to do.

If you buy into what I am saying there...then the argument that remains is, is the Gold Cup a competition we want to bring our best to, or is it a training ground for future, more important events? I'm on the boat that you bring your best to this one, it's one you want to win. Reading this thread, not everyone feels the same way...some want to treat it as a bit of a feeling ground for young stars too.

I'm not one of those guys. Be in it to win it. Call up your best 23, and that includes De Ro. As I've argued before, he might even get the start, but he shouldn't just get it by default. I think if someone outplays him in camp and is looking hungry and ready, by all means, give them the ball and let them run with it.

[ag futbol]

The attacks on De Rosario are symbolic of everything that is wrong with Canadian soccer.

We favour hard working grunts over creative/flair players because god forbid a creative player loses the ball trying to actually attack.

Exactly.

And my god, has anyone actually considered that we played Dero because even though he's not perfect he was still the best option we had by a large margin?

[narduch]

De Rosario is the best Canadian player of the past 15 years. If he has anything left in the tank he HAS to be at the Gold Cup. Even if he is only fit enough to be a 2nd half sub. We have nobody like him. The only player close is Cavallini, but I'd be looking for a way to get both players on the field at the same time.

DC United has nothing to play for so they shouldn't be an obstacle.

[narduch]

Funny, I thought that the story was about Kevin Keegan and Manchester City -this is before the current billionaire owners- and not Blackburn at all.

I believe that Blackburn offer was a few years after that Keegan/Man City story.

Apparently Blackburn only offered him a contract until the end of the season (a few months). Can you really blame De Rosario for looking for stability instead?

Let's not forget that Celtic was actually interested in De Rosario in 2011 but TFC squashed the deal I guess to make Earl Cochrane look like less of a retard or petty vindictivness.

Edit: Going through old threads, the Blackburn rumour was actually before the Man City one. Both in 2005. Wow, I feel so old.

[Wingback6]

No I don't even agree with this. With DeRo you can't just watch the plays were he succeeds you have to watch the numerous plays where he fails. He is just constantly trying things and a certain percentage of the time it works especially in MLS where he is given more time on the ball, the passing lanes are larger, the players are a bit slower etc than in international play. If you just look at the time when he did make a good pass to a teammate in scoring position he looks like a great passer and like he has vision. However, if you look at the whole game you realize most of the times when a teammate was in scoring position he didn't try to pass him the ball and lost it going one on one with the defender and those times when he did pass the pass was inaccurate and did not get to the player. But he constantly tries and probes the defence and eventually one time it works. I am not saying this is bad either nor is it one of his weaknesses but it is not indicative of a player with a high soccer IQ or good passing vision.

As much as I am not a DeRo fan I think he was the greatest soccer talent of his generation produced in Canada. He had the raw talent to have been the first Canadian soccer star playing on a good team in a major league. Unfortunately his career is full of missed opportunities to get the proper training required to hone his skills and get rid of bad habits. The missed opportunities range from turning down a youth contract with AC Milan, to coming back from Germany to play in the A league to turning down the Blackburn contract. And I won't bitch at him for those decision because I have no idea what was going on in his life at those times but from a Canadian soccer perspective it is tragic. And I have to say, I think if we could have put Stalteri's attitude together with DeRo's skill we would have had a world class player. Here is a small article on his AC Milan decision: http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/dc-united-star-de-rosario-why-i-rejected-ac-milan-2576221#.UbgRdD58uxM

The problem with DeRo is he came to MLS and was able to get by on his natural ability so he never had to work on his skill. He gets lots of time from the defenders so you don't notice how poor he receives passes or a poor first touch. He gets lots of opportunities in a game so even though many fail with enough tries a few of them succeed. And when he makes a bad decision on whether to try and go through a defender the guy who takes the ball does not make two quick passes which lead to a goal such as happens against teams like Honduras. He is the classic guy who is a 2nd division star but not a very good first division player and unfortunately for us when we play the better teams in CONCACAF it is a good step up from MLS. He gets shut down easily in international play and his 10 MLS chances turn into 2 and without accurate passing or shooting the 2 chances come to nothing.

That is why I predicated my post by saying "I agree with you". Because you did such a good job of describing the NEGATIVE and I didn't want to waste peoples time by repeating what you said in my own words. Instead, I wanted to highlight some features of his game that I didn't think you had represented in your otherwise... succinct... summary. Those features happened to be positive.

[David C.]

De Rosario is the best Canadian player of the past 15 years.

I would give Atiba that honour -- by a long shot.

[Keegan]

I would give Atiba that honour -- by a long shot.

By a long shot? You make it seem as if Atiba has done something really significant. You can definitely make the argument that he's the best Canadian of the last 15 years but any argument is going to be very tight with guys like Forrest, De Guzman, De Rosario and De Vos and no one player is the best Canadian by a long shot.

[jpg75]

The attacks on De Rosario are symbolic of everything that is wrong with Canadian soccer.

We favour hard working grunts over creative/flair players because god forbid a creative player loses the ball trying to actually attack.

Nice try, but you don't hear the same criticisms spoken of players such as Josh Simpson, Tomasz Radzinski or Atiba Hutchinson - players who try and create, but also have the awareness to lay the ball off when appropriate. And as far as i'm concerned, the only time DeRo gets himself into trouble is when he plays centrally and becomes a ball hog, putting his head down and trying to dribble his way through multiple defenders to the net. When he's out on the wing he gets 1v1 situations which allows him more space and also seems to make him more willing to lay the ball off to an oncoming central midfielder.