Canada announces preliminary roster for Gold Cup

[Keegan]

I don't see any benefit to calling DeRo. If we want to give him a send off have a friendly in Toronto. Can't say "we need his experience." We have other guys in their late 20's who have significant experience that we can lean on for that.

When thinking about dropping De Rosario I'm not worried about the experience. I'm worried about our lack of GOALS, the same problem that has haunted our national team for decades. De Rosario is our all-time leading scorer and let's be honest has any Canadian attacking player been better for a club at a similar level over the past couple years? Not that I see. Drop Ricketts before you drop DeRo... a Canadian with technique and an ounce of creativity in his body... shouldn't we be begging for a player like that?

We aren't in a position to drop De Rosario. The guys who would are poised to step in his place (Cavallini, Teibert, Porter, Edwini-Bonsu) have a combined 11 caps between them. It's too risky to bring in those guys with no veteran presence such as De Rosario as a "life vest" in case these kids get thrown in and can't swim. ALSO, De Rosario is the one Canadian player these kids coming in have heard of and looked up to when they were growing up. It's definitely worthwhile to have a Canadian icon like DeRo there to pass the torch onto these young attackers.

[Alberto7]

When thinking about dropping De Rosario I'm not worried about the experience. I'm worried about our lack of GOALS, the same problem that has haunted our national team for decades. De Rosario is our all-time leading scorer and let's be honest has any Canadian attacking player been better for a club at a similar level over the past couple years? Not that I see. Drop Ricketts before you drop DeRo... a Canadian with technique and an ounce of creativity in his body... shouldn't we be begging for a player like that?

We aren't in a position to drop De Rosario. The guys who would are poised to step in his place (Cavallini, Teibert, Porter, Edwini-Bonsu) have a combined 11 caps between them. It's too risky to bring in those guys with no veteran presence such as De Rosario as a "life vest" in case these kids get thrown in and can't swim. ALSO, De Rosario is the one Canadian player these kids coming in have heard of and looked up to when they were growing up. It's definitely worthwhile to have a Canadian icon like DeRo there to pass the torch onto these young attackers.

I agree 100% with you. De Ro must be there. He has scored 9 goals in World Cup Qualifying over the years so he knows what it is like to score under pressure. He has a boatload of goals at MLS level. The young strikers are just not ready to take over the load. With De Ro we have a chance to make a run in the Gold Cup -I'm not saying we will win, but we have a chance to get out of our group. Without De Ro, it will be 0-3 and out.

[Joe MacCarthy]

We aren't in a position to drop De Rosario. The guys who would are poised to step in his place (Cavallini, Teibert, Porter, Edwini-Bonsu) have a combined 11 caps between them. It's too risky to bring in those guys with no veteran presence such as De Rosario as a "life vest" in case these kids get thrown in and can't swim. ALSO, De Rosario is the one Canadian player these kids coming in have heard of and looked up to when they were growing up. It's definitely worthwhile to have a Canadian icon like DeRo there to pass the torch onto these young attackers.

What's the risk? Not winning the Gold Cup? We've got to get those kids in there ASAP under battle conditions (not friendlies). Taking playing time from them will only compound the problem later. The only problem I've seen from the "kids" is finishing, they don't seem to have a problem creating chances. Not playing them for veterans who likely won't be around and have had their chances isn't going to solve the problem.

[jonovision]

^ De Rosario's strike rate against non-minnows is poor, and when you consider how many of his goals scored for Canada have been penalties, even worse.

Despite how (extremely) limited he is as a player, Tosaint Ricketts has a better strike rate for Canada, both per game and per 90. (He is not better than DDR, or aguably not even a useful player, but it illustrates that Dwayne's goal scoring record owes more to longevity than anything else). Canada may miss Dwayne's goals against Martinique, but he has consistently shied away from the big occasions.

[Keegan]

What's the risk? Not winning the Gold Cup? We've got to get those kids in there ASAP under battle conditions (not friendlies). Taking playing time from them will only compound the problem later.

Yes, exactly the risk is going 0-3 and out. What good will that do? Is a kid really going to get more experience losing to Martinique in the Gold Cup in front of 10,000 neutrals than they would at a friendly at home in front of 10,000 Canadian fans? Very doubtful.

This is the Gold Cup, this is our EURO/Copa America, this isn't a time to mess around. Everyone here wants Canada to win in games that count. If the CSA wants to give time to young kids they have FIFA dates for the rest of the year for friendlies. Friendlies ARE battle conditions, there is no such thing as a friendly at the international level they all count and if players aren't ready to "battle" in those games then why should they earn the right to battle in the real games?

Taking an extra 2 months to give these kids matches isn't going to hurt this program, continually losing matches that matter IS. Especially if we lose to Martinique. Win at all costs.

[Alberto7]

What's the risk? Not winning the Gold Cup? We've got to get those kids in there ASAP under battle conditions (not friendlies). Taking playing time from them will only compound the problem later. The only problem I've seen from the "kids" is finishing, they don't seem to have a problem creating chances. Not playing them for veterans who likely won't be around and have had their chances isn't going to solve the problem.

Do you really think it is helping the cause of the MNT if they go 0-3 ? The next major tournament is the Gold Cup in 2 years. That's a long time to go with little to show for it. I agree we have to get some young players a great deal of playing minutes but we have to get some kind of result just for pride's sake. The casual fan last remembers the CMNT losing 8-1 in a tournament that counts. Nobody gives a **** about friendlies.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Do you really think it is helping the cause of the MNT if they go 0-3 ? The next major tournament is the Gold Cup in 2 years. That's a long time to go with little to show for it. I agree we have to get some young players a great deal of playing minutes but we have to get some kind of result just for pride's sake. The casual fan last remembers the CMNT losing 8-1 in a tournament that counts. Nobody gives a **** about friendlies.

And we lost 8-1 with our veterans who couldn't cope with the pressure and basically quit. What good does it serve to keep them around for yet another cycle. Who's to say our vets wouldn't go 0-3, they haven't exactly covered themselves in glory the past two cycles.

[Bertuzzi44]

Where is Ali "15 goals in 31 caps" Gerba when you need him?

But I guess we've been asking this question since WCQ ...

[Keegan]

And we lost 8-1 with our veterans who couldn't cope with the pressure and basically quit. What good does it serve to keep them around for yet another cycle. Who's to say our vets wouldn't go 0-3, they haven't exactly covered themselves in glory the past two cycles.

No one is saying call back the whole team, we're talking about De Rosario specifically are we not? He wasn't involved in any of the last 3 matches (save for the first 14 minutes in Panama) where the team under performed BADLY. He was however involved in the 0-0 away draw to the States with the kids where we battled and I think he earned himself another call up based on that performance.

You need to have a couple vets around and I think De Rosario and De Guzman are two players who are still in the top 20 Canadians playing the game at the present time. No one is saying they'll be around next cycle but they can play roles at the 2013 Gold Cup and that should be the focus, there will be plenty of other players in the squad who will be around (pretty well everyone else). If they are still around for next cycle great.

[Grizzly]

No one is saying call back the whole team, we're talking about De Rosario specifically are we not? He wasn't involved in any of the last 3 matches (save for the first 14 minutes in Panama) where the team under performed BADLY. He was however involved in the 0-0 away draw to the States with the kids where we battled and I think he earned himself another call up based on that performance.

You need to have a couple vets around and I think De Rosario and De Guzman are two players who are still in the top 20 Canadians playing the game at the present time. No one is saying they'll be around next cycle but they can play roles at the 2013 Gold Cup and that should be the focus, there will be plenty of other players in the squad who will be around (pretty well everyone else). If they are still around for next cycle great.

We should have a few vets around and maybe not every player needs to be someone who will be around for the next WCQ. However, DeRo and Deguzman are the last ones I would choose for this. Neither has played well for the national team (despite the occasional good game DeRo has been disappointing throughout his career, Deguzman was great up until the 2007 Gold Cup but declined massively after that tournament) and both have very questionable attitudes and professionalism. And yes DeRo wasn't involved in the 8-1 but how many other countless embarrassing performances over the years was he involved in. And he picked up the nickname MeRo for a reason.

The kids do need some veterans to teach them the ropes but two guys who have constantly underperformed for the national team and have been prime examples of what has been wrong with the attitude of our players are not the ones I would select to give veteran guidance.

[ag futbol]

^ De Rosario's strike rate against non-minnows is poor, and when you consider how many of his goals scored for Canada have been penalties, even worse.

Despite how (extremely) limited he is as a player, Tosaint Ricketts has a better strike rate for Canada, both per game and per 90. (He is not better than DDR, or aguably not even a useful player, but it illustrates that Dwayne's goal scoring record owes more to longevity than anything else). Canada may miss Dwayne's goals against Martinique, but he has consistently shied away from the big occasions.

But really, who on Canada does put the ball in the net? Even if it's just against minnows.... Scoring against anybody makes you an asset for Canada.

We're just not a very talented squad. If Mexico can hold onto Blanco well into his late 30s, why would be so quick to push away some of our better (but older) players? Let's face it there is simply nobody on the horizon that's going to step up to fill these voids. Some of these guys aren't ready, others it's highly questionable whether they'll even make it as professionals.

Our roster selection is getting way too speculative for it's own good. It needs to get back to who is performing the best on the field at the pro level. I'd accept a slight tilt for youth, but that needs to have limits.

[Keegan]

We should have a few vets around and maybe not every player needs to be someone who will be around for the next WCQ. However, DeRo and Deguzman are the last ones I would choose for this. Neither has played well for the national team (despite the occasional good game DeRo has been disappointing throughout his career, Deguzman was great up until the 2007 Gold Cup but declined massively after that tournament) and both have very questionable attitudes and professionalism. And yes DeRo wasn't involved in the 8-1 but how many other countless embarrassing performances over the years was he involved in. And he picked up the nickname MeRo for a reason.

The kids do need some veterans to teach them the ropes but two guys who have constantly underperformed for the national team and have been prime examples of what has been wrong with the attitude of our players are not the ones I would select to give veteran guidance.

Of course those two haven't been world beaters but who would you choose Grizz? Those two have been constants for Canada because they have been "consistent" relative to other players in the national pool. You could make an argument for Bernier but with him being left off the squad that's out of question and even at his peak Bernier never reached the levels of JDG or DDR.

JDG and DDR aren't perfect characters but I don't think they're detrimental characters either. We could have Carlos Ruiz and Amado Guevara...

[ag futbol]

Of course those two haven't been world beaters but who would you choose Grizz? Those two have been constants for Canada because they have been "consistent" relative to other players in the national pool. You could make an argument for Bernier but with him being left off the squad that's out of question and even at his peak Bernier never reached the levels of JDG or DDR.

JDG and DDR aren't perfect characters but I don't think they're detrimental characters either. We could have Carlos Ruiz and Amado Guevara...

All this character talk that gets mulled around here is nothing but a red herring. We should just cut it off at the pass and say our team isn't very talented. Is anyone going to complement the attitudes of our players on a perpetually losing squad? Be too nice and you're naive simpleton, be too vocal and your a malcontent. You just can't win and as far as I can see it means jack **** about being successful. The best attitudes in the world couldn't transform our current level of talent to anything more than what it is now.

Just give me a group of winners. I don't care if they are frequenting every bar in town, speeding through school zones on the way to practice, clubbing baby seals in their spare time, just get the job done.

[Grizzly]

Of course those two haven't been world beaters but who would you choose Grizz? Those two have been constants for Canada because they have been "consistent" relative to other players in the national pool. You could make an argument for Bernier but with him being left off the squad that's out of question and even at his peak Bernier never reached the levels of JDG or DDR.

JDG and DDR aren't perfect characters but I don't think they're detrimental characters either. We could have Carlos Ruiz and Amado Guevara...

Hutchinson and Bernier would be the guys I call as veteran leaders. I would agree that Bernier never reached the heights the DeGuzman reached at Deportivo but on the other hand he has been closer to them in the last couple of years than DeGuzman himself has been in the last 4. I totally disagree that he has never reached the level of DeRo. DeRo's achievements have never been at a higher level than MLS and I think Bernier is right now a better player than DeRo ever was even in his best seasons. As much as DeRo brings in MLS when he is on his game he often hurts "the team" almost as much by his style of play and his myriad of flaws. Bernier is a much more well rounded and less one dimensional player than DeRo. I will admit Bernier has also had some disappointing performances with the national team and shares that with DeRo and DeGuzman. But unlike the other two he has rarely been give a long term chance to establish himself in the team and get used to the other players. Above he is a true professional and has a great attitude, a far better influence for our young players.

Yes we have a lack of veteran players with good leadership skills, Jazic would have been a choice for me but he retired and Simpson is still injured. However, if we want to bring in veteran leaders we need to be bring in veterans who are leaders not just bring in veterans because they are veterans. DeRo and DeGuzman are not leaders nor good examples for our younger players from what I have seen of them. And on current play they are both borderline call ups. I would rather call in younger players than call in older ones based on their past performance which for the most part were not very glorious anyway.

[Keegan]

Hutchinson and Bernier would be the guys I call as veteran leaders. I would agree that Bernier never reached the heights the DeGuzman reached at Deportivo but on the other hand he has been closer to them in the last couple of years than DeGuzman himself has been in the last 4. I totally disagree that he has never reached the level of DeRo. DeRo's achievements have never been at a higher level than MLS and I think Bernier is right now a better player than DeRo ever was even in his best seasons. As much as DeRo brings in MLS when he is on his game he often hurts "the team" almost as much by his style of play and his myriad of flaws. Bernier is a much more well rounded and less one dimensional player than DeRo. I will admit Bernier has also had some disappointing performances with the national team and shares that with DeRo and DeGuzman. But unlike the other two he has rarely been give a long term chance to establish himself in the team and get used to the other players. Above he is a true professional and has a great attitude, a far better influence for our young players.

Yes we have a lack of veteran players with good leadership skills, Jazic would have been a choice for me but he retired and Simpson is still injured. However, if we want to bring in veteran leaders we need to be bring in veterans who are leaders not just bring in veterans because they are veterans. DeRo and DeGuzman are not leaders nor good examples for our younger players from what I have seen of them. And on current play they are both borderline call ups. I would rather call in younger players than call in older ones based on their past performance which for the most part were not very glorious anyway.

I can agree with most of your argument but for the part of Bernier being a better MLS player than De Rosario. DeRo is in the argument for best MLS player ever and certainly the most clutch in MLS cup history, Bernier is yet to play a playoff game or even get an All Star or MLS XI nod. Bernier has never been in the discussion for best Canadian player while De Rosario is a constant. I know you don't like De Rosario but those are just facts.

[Joe MacCarthy]

However, DeRo and Deguzman are the last ones I would choose for this. Neither has played well for the national team (despite the occasional good game DeRo has been disappointing throughout his career, Deguzman was great up until the 2007 Gold Cup but declined massively after that tournament) and both have very questionable attitudes and professionalism. And yes DeRo wasn't involved in the 8-1 but how many other countless embarrassing performances over the years was he involved in. And he picked up the nickname MeRo for a reason.

The kids do need some veterans to teach them the ropes but two guys who have constantly underperformed for the national team and have been prime examples of what has been wrong with the attitude of our players are not the ones I would select to give veteran guidance.

Praise Allah! My memory is faulty and I have nothing to back up my contention but I thought a few years back that there was a real TFC poison clique on the NT. Who were the guys who basically quit in the qualifiers a cycle or two back and threw people under the bus. One was mentioned above. In all honesty, I've never seen what JDG brought to the team and while I can forgive DeRo somewhat for a few good performances some of his shenanigans make me question his leadership.

I've been posting about this for years. Although the last two cycles may have had our most "skilled" players we've had a dearth of people willing to get their hands dirty. Like them or not but when we had Watson and DeVos we were a lot tougher to play against.

[Grizzly]

I can agree with most of your argument but for the part of Bernier being a better MLS player than De Rosario. DeRo is in the argument for best MLS player ever and certainly the most clutch in MLS cup history, Bernier is yet to play a playoff game or even get an All Star or MLS XI nod. Bernier has never been in the discussion for best Canadian player while De Rosario is a constant. I know you don't like De Rosario but those are just facts.

I have never been a DeRo fan but have always admitted he was a star in MLS. But best MLS player ever. WOW! Yeah he was flashy, exciting to watch and scored some clutch goals but the only way he is even close to the best MLS player conversation is if you only think of his positives and how he played in his good games and totally ignore all of his myriad flaws which incidentally always got exposed on the international level. And surely a lot of people in MLS recognize some of these flaws even if you do not considering the one year he managed to win the Golden Boot he played on 3 teams after getting traded twice.

[madmonte]

I can agree with most of your argument but for the part of Bernier being a better MLS player than De Rosario. DeRo is in the argument for best MLS player ever and certainly the most clutch in MLS cup history, Bernier is yet to play a playoff game or even get an All Star or MLS XI nod. Bernier has never been in the discussion for best Canadian player while De Rosario is a constant. I know you don't like De Rosario but those are just facts.

Yes, out of anyone on the Canadian team, DeRo is most capable of being a game changer. It hasn't panned out much of the time, but the skill is there more than anyone I've personally seen.

[Grizzly]

Yes, out of anyone on the Canadian team, DeRo is most capable of being a game changer. It hasn't panned out much of the time, but the skill is there more than anyone I've personally seen.

I think the key phrase there is "It hasn't panned out much of the time". The only recent MNT players I would put in game changer category would be Gerba and Simpson but neither are playing at the moment.

[Blackdude]

Let's look at all of DeRo's goals in the past cycle starting in 09. He scored 5 goals. Wikipedia is your friend.

5 goals: 4 on penalties, 1 on a heads up play from Atiba Hutchinson. There's another good Canadian player that can take penalties, where is he anyways? I'm with Grizz one that one. It's like why isn't Wondolowski on the US squad? Being a great MLS player doesn't make you a great CONCACAF player. I don't know what DeRo did, but people forget that the guy quit on his coach 5 years ago like it never happened. Why would I want a player like him? Bernier was always there and has always answered the call for this team. I can't say the same for DeRo.

16 June 11, 2011 Raymond James Stadium, Tampa Guadeloupe 1–0 2011 CONCACAF Gold Cup

17 June 14, 2011 Livestrong Sporting Park, Kansas City Panama 1–1 2011 CONCACAF Gold Cup

18 September 2, 2011 BMO Field, Toronto, Canada Saint Lucia 4–1 2014 FIFA World Cup qualification

19 November 15, 2011 BMO Field, Toronto, Canada Saint Kitts and Nevis 4–0 2014 FIFA World Cup qualification

20 September 7, 2012 BMO Field, Toronto, Canada Panama 1–0 2014 FIFA World Cup qualification

[madmonte]

I don't know man. I know what I saw in the last WCQ and it wasn't statistics. It was an engaged and battling player who did more for creating chance than any other player on the pitch. Some of the chances he created were spectacularly flubbed by a different player in the end. Remember the Centennial friendly where he gave it to Jackson on a plate after burning everyone on the left? I remember seeing a guy who clearly wanted to represent us, doing so with heart and soul. Like I said, it didn't pan out...not like it was all his fault...there's a lot more to this than DeRo's stats, including the coaching and a 4-5-1 formation that Hart said was "attacking" that at times looked very much the opposite. But they had solid moments...and for my money, De Ro played great football during the WCQ.

That said, Bernier need to be on the pitch during the WCQ too. I think a lot of the wrong players were out there. Like I said, there's a lot more to this than De Ro's scoring. Point at it and say he didn't produce...point to the guy that would have produced better. Or who?

I like Bernier, but you are pointing to a guy there that has 49 caps and 2 goals for country, if you want stats. Another stat...I know their positions are different...but look at how many of Bernier's goals in MLS since he joined were taking from the spot too while you are it. Wasn't it like 5 out of his 9 goals? Or 6, or something like that? But if you reduce Bernier's goals from 9 to 3 using that logic and say he didn't really score that much, it still wouldn't be representative of the amazing impact he had on his MLS squad. Bernier has flat out been impressive. He won't be at the Gold Cup though.

Nor is the lack of goals representative of the heart and skill shown by DeRo in the last WCQ. I saw a guy all over the pitch. In later images you could see a guy very disappointed by what happened in Honduras. Remember De Ro wasn't there that game...but him nor bernier nor superman would have saved the CMNT on that day. Watch a highlight reel of Ricketts missed opportunities or something, and see what De Ro had to work with out there.

I have seen DC United games this year and De Rosario is definitely far from his usual impressive self, in the 2 games that I've watched anyways. So many his time is done, but I stick by the fact that when he is on, he IS a game changer...he's not a soccer god (see Messi), but he is one of the best soccer players ever to suit up for Canada. But that's just my opinion

[Lord Bob]

Let's look at all of DeRo's goals in the past cycle starting in 09. He scored 5 goals. Wikipedia is your friend.

5 goals: 4 on penalties, 1 on a heads up play from Atiba Hutchinson. There's another good Canadian player that can take penalties, where is he anyways? I'm with Grizz one that one. It's like why isn't Wondolowski on the US squad? Being a great MLS player doesn't make you a great CONCACAF player. I don't know what DeRo did, but people forget that the guy quit on his coach 5 years ago like it never happened. Why would I want a player like him? Bernier was always there and has always answered the call for this team. I can't say the same for DeRo.

You're going to have to be right less if you want the title of #1 Lord Bob troll.

[rob.notenboom]

Remember De Ro wasn't there that game...but him nor bernier nor superman would have saved the CMNT on that day.

I beg to differ. Superman would really help us. He can play many positions, is lights-out fast, and can shoot with both feet. In fact anyone who tries to stop his shot dies on impact and that would be a great asset. As long as Honduras didn't have Kryptonite we would have been solid with him on the pitch.

However there is that sticky situation of his birth parents being from Krypton. Krypton might have a shot at making the world cup this cycle and I bet he's just waiting to see if they will before declaring for them.

[Marc]

I don't know what DeRo did, but people forget that the guy quit on his coach 5 years ago like it never happened. Why would I want a player like him?

Yes, out of anyone on the Canadian team, DeRo is most capable of being a game changer. It hasn't panned out much of the time, but the skill is there more than anyone I've personally seen.

I'd love to ditch all the guys who've quit or sulked or whined but I don't know that we have that luxury. And if we're going to do that then we have to be consistent and that means putting Radz and Pesch and even Bircham back in the bad books. De Ro is easier to dislike than any of those three but that's not really relevant to selection considerations.

However choosing De Ro because he's a "game changer" ... well ... if that's his main quality, a game-changer that doesn't change many games is at best pretty useless, and at worst a detraction. (No offense to De Ro.)

[madmonte]

To be honest, my biggest concern with De Rosario is that since he had that knee injury that put him out of the WCQ last year, he hasn't quite been the same. At mid 30s those nagging injuries can really effect you. But that is guessing to be fair, for all I know Dwayne thinks he's in the best shape of his life. Putting two and two together a bit and wondering if he hasn't been 100% for a long time. Retirement isn't that far away.