Canada announces preliminary roster for Gold Cup

[madmonte]

That is a very interesting line up. I like that it gets Jackson involved because as we know he has more success when he is paired with another striker. Jackson is less effective out wide in a 4-3-3. The other debatable parts would be Attakora over Henry. I many be alone in this but I think Henry should be ahead of Attakora in our depth chart, as he is better on the ball and has equal aerial ability, recovery speed, and is 4 years younger. Also, I don't know if we will see Hainault as a FB (not that he couldn't get the job done, I think they feel he is better as a CB).

I like that lineup too, but I agree that Attakora is in there. Again, it's EDGAR out wide, on the RB, NOT Hainault. I think it's important to note, guys, Edgar can be effective up the wing, Hainault is weak there. As for Attakora vs Henry, I think in 2 years Henry is the choice, maybe. But as of RIGHT NOW, he looks like Attakora did when he was young at TFC...prone to mistakes. Now we have a mature Attakora. I think the deciding factor will be Nana's fitness. That is quite the serious concussion he is recovering from.

[David C.]

I like that lineup too, but I agree that Attakora is in there. Again, it's EDGAR out wide, on the RB, NOT Hainault. Get it through your heads, guys, Edgar can be effective up the wing, Hainault is weak there. As for Attakora vs Henry, I think in 2 years Henry is the choice, maybe. But as of RIGHT NOW, he looks like Attakora did when he was young at TFC...prone to mistakes. Now we have a mature Attakora. I think the deciding factor will be Nana's fitness. That is quite the serious concussion he is recovering from.

I wonder if we're better off building our back four with Edgar and Hainault set as the foundation pairing at centre-back. The right-back conversation starts with Ledgerwood and eventually may end with someone who isn't even on our radar right now. Jakovic, Attakora, Straith and Henry are all depth options right now (and/or competition for Ledgerwood at RB). The point is (to me) to keep Edgar and Hainault as a reliable constant in the middle, to build around for 2016 (WC Qualifying).

[madmonte]

I wonder if we're better off building our back four with Edgar and Hainault set as the foundation pairing at centre-back. The right-back conversation starts with Ledgerwood and eventually may end with someone who isn't even on our radar right now. Jakovic, Attakora, Straith and Henry are all depth options right now (and/or competition for Ledgerwood at RB). The point is (to me) to keep Edgar and Hainault as a reliable constant in the middle, to build around for 2016 (WC Qualifying).

Yeah I can understand that. In that situation, I'd keep Hainault as a backup CB then. I know you want your best 11 on the pitch. Sometimes it's annoying, because you don't want Hutch at RB, but sometimes our best XI in total flat out PUTS him there, since he has experience there. I'm staying away from posting a starting XI with him at RB, because I don't think Hutch wants to be there...and I think he's more valuable in the mid. But we definitely need some real RB options. That's why Edgar, in my XI, always ends up at RB.

[Addona]

I wonder if we're better off building our back four with Edgar and Hainault set as the foundation pairing at centre-back. The right-back conversation starts with Ledgerwood and eventually may end with someone who isn't even on our radar right now. Jakovic, Attakora, Straith and Henry are all depth options right now (and/or competition for Ledgerwood at RB). The point is (to me) to keep Edgar and Hainault as a reliable constant in the middle, to build around for 2016 (WC Qualifying).

To me, both Nana and Jakovic are at least on par with Hainault, if not better.

And maybe, just maybe, in a year or so, we have several strong young MFs and Atiba moves to RB.

[Keegan]

I like that lineup too, but I agree that Attakora is in there. Again, it's EDGAR out wide, on the RB, NOT Hainault. Get it through your heads, guys, Edgar can be effective up the wing, Hainault is weak there. As for Attakora vs Henry, I think in 2 years Henry is the choice, maybe. But as of RIGHT NOW, he looks like Attakora did when he was young at TFC...prone to mistakes. Now we have a mature Attakora. I think the deciding factor will be Nana's fitness. That is quite the serious concussion he is recovering from.

Yup the two years of limited football since he's been at TFC has really matured him as a player... Attakora is just as mistake prone as Henry from what I've seen since he's left TFC and I've watched every Canada and San Jose match he's been involved in in that time, he didn't magically mature over night. Man no offense but you talk out of your ass so much it bothers me.

[madmonte]

Yup the two years of limited football since he's been at TFC has really matured him as a player... Attakora is just as mistake prone as Henry from what I've seen since he's left TFC and I've watched every Canada and San Jose match he's been involved in in that time, he didn't magically mature over night. Man no offense but you talk out of your ass so much it bothers me.

Look, I've also watched Henry every game, and 4 games involving Attakora. He HAS matured in my opinion. I've always seen parity in Attakora and Henry. A lot of athleticism, great in the air, always a danger to score on set pieces. But both are historically prone to rash challenges and giveaways, and not knowing when to just let the attacker have the ball and control the space. I think Attakora has improved, mostly on the latter this year, not sticking a foot in, and giving the attacker space more when the situation requires it. Nana used to be horrible on that, he still does it once in a while. Henry has yet to learn this, although I think in a few years, Henry will be more likely to make the right pass from the back than Attakora...in fact he seems to have a cooler head right now, in that regard. But Henry is still always in danger of a card, and Nana has learned a little discretion. Also I think Nana's defensive positioning, and awareness of players around him is better at this point than Doneil's, but that will come with experience. I remember back in TFC how Attakora had to practically be verbally guided by Cann around the field. It's DEFINITELY come a long way...I think his troubles in San Jose getting a spot...almost losing a career, being unemployed a while have made Nana realize not to take it all for granted, perhaps improving his outlook or work ethic. At least one would hope so.

And when did I say Nana matured in 2 years? I said Henry, in two years, may improve enough to be better than Nana. Not that it took two years for Nana to mature. That process has been ongoing since he first signed with TFC. He's matured since then.

Have you been a fan longer than me? Yes, which gives you more long term knowledge, but I have at least watched Henry's career in full, and in Nana's case, since he was Doneil's age, so I do feel like I have a valid opinion here. Key word opinion, which are like a$$holes, we all got em.

The real shame of what you say here is, based on what I've seen since I really hardcore started following soccer in about 2010, is that most of your stances and opinions I actually agree with, looking at many of your recent posts, I'm of the same mind as you on a LOT of things.

Edit: was honestly a little offended by that statement at first...edited my post to take a little spur of the moment anger out of it. I'm trying not to be that guy. No offence taken, in the long run.

[Obinna]

Hey boys no need to fight. You both have good points on this forum from time to time. On this topic though I have to say (once again) that Henry is clearly better on the ball than Attakora. In fact, Nana is (at 24) still not comfortable in possession and I cringe every time he has the ball. For an international player he is very weak technically, and honestly I think we can do a lot better than him when it comes to starting CB conversations.

That being said I have no problem with him in the squad at this point, but really I cannot see how some of you guys can turn a blind eye to his lack of footballing ability. Madmonte may have a point when he notes that Attakora is less likely to pick up a card or go in on a rash challenge, but I would rather give Henry time to correct these mental errors because he has way more upside for the reasons I have mentioned.

Another thing I want to point out about Henry is his hunger on offensive corners. I have noticed that ever since he scored that header in U-23 against the states he now challenges corners with a true purpose. He doesn't always put his headers on target but the intent is there and I would say he is more of a threat than Attakora in this regard (Or at least that is what I have seen recently).

[madmonte]

Hey boys no need to fight. You both have good points on this forum from time to time. On this topic though I have to say (once again) that Henry is clearly better on the ball than Attakora. In fact, Nana is (at 24) still not comfortable in possession and I cringe every time he has the ball. For an international player he is very weak technically, and honestly I think we can do a lot better than him when it comes to starting CB conversations.

That being said I have no problem with him in the squad at this point, but really I cannot see how some of you guys can turn a blind eye to his lack of footballing ability. Madmonte may have a point when he notes that Attakora is less likely to pick up a card or go in on a rash challenge, but I would rather give Henry time to correct these mental errors because he has way more upside for the reasons I have mentioned.

Another thing I want to point out about Henry is his hunger on offensive corners. I have noticed that ever since he scored that header in U-23 against the states he now challenges corners with a true purpose. He doesn't always put his headers on target but the intent is there and I would say he is more of a threat than Attakora in this regard (Or at least that is what I have seen recently).

Those are fair arguments. My thinking was that in two years, Henry will probably end up as the better player, but right now Attakora may be the option because of more experience, which was my point in my initial post. If some think Doneil is the better option already, I can't blame them for thinking that way, he does have a HUGE upside. Just remember, at 19, Attakora was thought to have the same upside. And I think of Attakora as having that same hunger. Remember Nana is currently injured...exactly who's head did he bang into? Like I said, some of the upside, some of the gifts are the same with both players.

I think, as you say, Henry is stronger technically though. I think my fear with Doneil is those bloody CONCACAF refs to be honest. Can't let fear control decisions, just gotta let them play, but those CONCACAF refs can be brutal.

[Obinna]

I wonder if we're better off building our back four with Edgar and Hainault set as the foundation pairing at centre-back. The right-back conversation starts with Ledgerwood and eventually may end with someone who isn't even on our radar right now. Jakovic, Attakora, Straith and Henry are all depth options right now (and/or competition for Ledgerwood at RB). The point is (to me) to keep Edgar and Hainault as a reliable constant in the middle, to build around for 2016 (WC Qualifying).

This is my train of thought as well (and I suspect the coaches will see it this way too). Edgar and Hainault are natural CB's and that is where they should play moving forward. I have no problem using Ledgerwood as band aid for our RB problem in the short term until a proper RB emerges and forces him out. Grooming Edgar to be our permanent RB is a waste because his skill set would serve us better as CB.

[Grizzly]

I think my fear with Doneil is those bloody CONCACAF refs to be honest. Can't let fear control decisions, just gotta let them play, but those CONCACAF refs can be brutal.

The fear should be Henry's propensity to make undisciplined boneheaded decisions not refs punishing a guy that acts like this. Whatever the failings of CONCACAF refs (and it should be remembered they were for the most part excellent in the last WCQ) Henry is doing a lot of things that are just begging to be carded and would get carded by the best UEFA refs as well. No matter how good he becomes if he doesn't fix this he will kill us in WCQ.

[Ivan]

I wonder if we're better off building our back four with Edgar and Hainault set as the foundation pairing at centre-back. The right-back conversation starts with Ledgerwood and eventually may end with someone who isn't even on our radar right now. Jakovic, Attakora, Straith and Henry are all depth options right now (and/or competition for Ledgerwood at RB). The point is (to me) to keep Edgar and Hainault as a reliable constant in the middle, to build around for 2016 (WC Qualifying).

Have to say I agree with this statement as well. With the LB conversation starting with Dejong.

[Obinna]

Those are fair arguments. My thinking was that in two years, Henry will probably end up as the better player, but right now Attakora may be the option because of more experience, which was my point in my initial post. If some think Doneil is the better option already, I can't blame them for thinking that way, he does have a HUGE upside. Just remember, at 19, Attakora was thought to have the same upside. And I think of Attakora as having that same hunger. Remember Nana is currently injured...exactly who's head did he bang into? Like I said, some of the upside, some of the gifts are the same with both players.

I think, as you say, Henry is stronger technically though. I think my fear with Doneil is those bloody CONCACAF refs to be honest. Can't let fear control decisions, just gotta let them play, but those CONCACAF refs can be brutal.

I can see why you would fear for Henry when CONCACAF refs are involved. I have two thoughts on that.

First of all, for a 19 year old Henry already has pretty good experience playing in CONCACAF. Of course this is at the club level but I think that counts for something. Truth be told Henry has probably played more games against Central American teams than Attakora, so he should already be aware of the embellishment that goes on.

Second of all, If Henry is going to make a mistake and fall for antics that could get him in trouble with CONCACAF refs, I would rather he learn these lessons now rather than next WCQ cycle.

You are certainly right that many were high on Attakora when he was 19, but I for one thought the enthusiasm and expectations people had were not realistic. Perhaps we were quick to overrate him because he was the first young guy to establish himself on the First Team. Some even thought it was inevitable that TFC would lose him to a bigger European club. To me it was clear he did not have the technical ability to make such a jump, but my hope was that he would develop this part of his game. He didn't.

The ironic thing here is that Henry does not get nearly as much hype as Attakora did back in those days, despite being a better player (at least IMO). Maybe we have learned to keep our expectations realistic after Attakora never panned out, or maybe Attakora had more hype because held down a starting spot for a longer stretch than Henry ever has. Who knows?

[yothat]

This maybe off-subject but what is with "Tony Fonseca has an insane and indefensible bias against NASL players (oh, yeah, Stefan Cebara, Daniel Haber, two U-20s who have never played a professional game, and one Scottish U-20 who has never played above the Scottish Third Division are all well ahead of Shaun Saiko on the depth chart). Paul Hamilton isn’t named, of course; if the Carolina Railhawks ever played a team like Los Angeles they’d get killed. Simon Thomas, who will be backing up for FC Edmonton on Saturday, is named. John Smits, who will be starting ahead of Simon Thomas for FC Edmonton on Saturday, is not. It’s actually hilarious (and I like Simon a lot). No bias against the NASL here! No sir! Kyle Porter materialized out of thin air rather than spending three years as a B or B+ player in the USSF D2 and NASL, right?" - Maple Leaf Forever

[Obinna]

Have to say I agree with this statement as well. With the LB conversation starting with Dejong.

I think that our situation is a bit different on the left. De Jong has the right quality and age to be a mainstay at LB in the same way that Edgar and Hainault do at CB. It is RB where we really should hope a legitimate option appears on the radar soon. I feel very comfortable with our LB situation.

[gator]

I wonder if we're better off building our back four with Edgar and Hainault set as the foundation pairing at centre-back. The right-back conversation starts with Ledgerwood and eventually may end with someone who isn't even on our radar right now. Jakovic, Attakora, Straith and Henry are all depth options right now (and/or competition for Ledgerwood at RB). The point is (to me) to keep Edgar and Hainault as a reliable constant in the middle, to build around for 2016 (WC Qualifying).

I agree with this as well, no doubt there will be matches when this pairing won't happen and we will have to choose from the others you note! Re: Henry, I hope Nelsen is able to get the full potential out of this guy, he has all of the physical tools and with proper mentoring he could become great, time will tell on that one! I suppose Ledgerwood is our best option at RB presently but if some of our talent in MF emerges I still am of the opinion Hutch should play there! DeJong should start at LB but we do have a nice option with the emerging Morgan!

[madmonte]

The fear should be Henry's propensity to make undisciplined boneheaded decisions not refs punishing a guy that acts like this. Whatever the failings of CONCACAF refs (and it should be remembered they were for the most part excellent in the last WCQ) Henry is doing a lot of things that are just begging to be carded and would get carded by the best UEFA refs as well. No matter how good he becomes if he doesn't fix this he will kill us in WCQ.

Yes this is my worry too, with Henry, Grizz, you sum up my sentiments neatly. As for the CONCACAF refs, I still worry. But you are right that he does make rash decisions, that's what I have been saying too. Again, though, I believe he'll grow out of it, the same way I think Attakora has sort of grown out of it a bit.

You know, in all honesty, I'm fine with Henry, Attakora, Hainault, Jakovic OR Edgar starting as the CBs in the back. My personal opinion is to still move Edgar to the right because he's so gifted there compared to other options, but I can see him in CB as well, as a guy that can actually pass his way out of a mess rather than just boot the ball downfield like many TFC and Team Canada fans are far too used to. I remember watching Edgar a couple times in the last WCQ with the ball at his feet, players rushing him, and making the correct decisions as cool as you like. Some of our other options are more athletic and stick in a little better, so it depends what you like.

Hell, I even like Paul Hamilton and Mallan Roberts! (Actually I'm pretty positively biased towards Hamilton and Roberts, even though Roberts is another that has been making red card challenges this year)

I hope Henry does turn into one of those players for us, Obinna, like you I certainly see the potential. Not sure if you've caught a lot of FC Edmonton this year, but I'm seeing a lot of potential in Roberts too. Unfortunately for Roberts, although he's been in Canada a LONG time, he's had issues sorting out his passport, but that should all be cleared up this summer according to reports.

As for Attakora, I was always wary...as I said earlier Cann had to practically guide him around the pitch at some points. But I stick to my story that, although his technical ability on the ball hasn't improved a lot, his ability to position himself better defensively, at least as compared to his time at TFC, and not stick in challenges at the wrong time and get carded for it has improved drastically. Which is what I meant by his maturity.

The fact that he was challenging Jason Hernandez for a starting role before his concussion does speak volumes on how highly Yallop thought of him. Unfortunately for Nana, Yallop is out of the picture now, so it remains to be seen what role he plays there once he is fit again.

For me, I'm just happy with have so many CBs playing pro ball to throw into the discussion. Again, I have high hopes for Roberts some day, too!

I also agree we are fine at LB, and I also agree De Jong should be our first option there. That, to me, was a huge mistake in WCQ, though to be fair Jazic DID play well enough to make it his spot to lose. It might not have been fair to Jazic to swap him out after some really solid performances, but if you wanted your best XI on the pitch, I think De Jong still should have been out there.

[Ivanovski94]

This maybe off-subject but what is with "Tony Fonseca has an insane and indefensible bias against NASL players (oh, yeah, Stefan Cebara, Daniel Haber, two U-20s who have never played a professional game, and one Scottish U-20 who has never played above the Scottish Third Division are all well ahead of Shaun Saiko on the depth chart). Paul Hamilton isn’t named, of course; if the Carolina Railhawks ever played a team like Los Angeles they’d get killed. Simon Thomas, who will be backing up for FC Edmonton on Saturday, is named. John Smits, who will be starting ahead of Simon Thomas for FC Edmonton on Saturday, is not. It’s actually hilarious (and I like Simon a lot). No bias against the NASL here! No sir! Kyle Porter materialized out of thin air rather than spending three years as a B or B+ player in the USSF D2 and NASL, right?" - Maple Leaf Forever

So Daniel Haber's games for Maccabi Haifa arent professional games and also Cebara is a starter for Celje in slovenia

[Blackdude]

So Daniel Haber's games for Maccabi Haifa arent professional games and also Cebara is a starter for Celje in slovenia

Raed correctly. the 2 U-20's who have never played a pro game are Aleman and Piette. (Although Piette has played 4th division soccer games.

[madmonte]

Anyway, here's my starting XI. Going with a lot of attacking players with a diamond midfield. (Yeah, I know, it hasn't always worked for us in the past, but make the formation for the players you want to use, don't make the players for the formation you want...a lesson Canada MANY times needed to learn)

-------------Cavallini------Jackson--------------

-------------------De Rosario--------------------

----------Johnson--------------Teibert-----------

--------------------Hutchinson-------------------

De Jong------Attakora----Hainault--------Edgar

--------------------Borjan------------------------

Again, with all the argument around the CB situation, I'm fine with a lot of other options in there, although I'm hesitant to place Ledgerwood at RB. If it happens, so be it, he's proven he can handle it in the past.

I just wanted something with a lot of positive attack. And yes, the fact that my lineup and ag futbol's are the same didn't escape me. I came up with this on my own, and then realized after it was exactly like his. I honestly flat out think it's the best XI right now.

[Blackdude]

No more DeRo, please. We should move on. He's playing like **** for DC NUnited, so why would he play well for us.

[madmonte]

No more DeRo, please. We should move on. He's playing like **** for DC NUnited, so why would he play well for us.

A sort of final hurrah, and passing of the torch perhaps? I just feel he's earned the loyalty and the chance, but I know what you are saying...somehow I just think he turns it on this tournament for the simple fact that he is a skilled enough player to do so, and probably is aware his time wearing the red is close to complete.

[Grizzly]

No more DeRo, please. We should move on. He's playing like **** for DC NUnited, so why would he play well for us.

Well after all those years of him playing good in MLS and bad for the national team maybe it is time for the opposite!

[Lord Bob]

A sort of final hurrah, and passing of the torch perhaps? I just feel he's earned the loyalty and the chance, but I know what you are saying...somehow I just think he turns it on this tournament for the simple fact that he is a skilled enough player to do so, and probably is aware his time wearing the red is close to complete.

MeRo ditched us for the 2009 Gold Cup, I have no problem ditching him for this one. He's been the central figure on our disastrously ineffective and self-entitled national teams of the past decade. He hasn't earned ****.

[Obinna]

Well after all those years of him playing good in MLS and bad for the national team maybe it is time for the opposite!

If he plays as good as he has played bad with DCU this year we are going to win GC!

[ThiKu]

I don't see any benefit to calling DeRo. If we want to give him a send off have a friendly in Toronto. Can't say "we need his experience." We have other guys in their late 20's who have significant experience that we can lean on for that.