Keegan Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Not sure I agree with your logic there. Rooney doesn't have to worry for his livelihood the way some of these guys do. Alot of these dudes are hoping to get on a roster as a fringe player. If they lost out on a contract because of an injury or a missed camp it would do alot more damage to their long term outlook than a guy like Rooney. Yes, that's true but then you can also argue that an injury to Rooney would lose a lot more money for a lot more people so it's a bigger risk. Either way it's a player playing for their country in a major tournament because it's something they choose to do. I know I'd be there I hope those guys feel the same. You know De Guzman is going to be there (say what you want about him but he's committed). Should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Lazlo is absolutely correct. These guys have a roughly 10 year career in which they have to establish themselves as a pro and develop future prospects for jobs. Rooney, these guys are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I am loving TFC bashing here even though they're not worst team or play in worst league. I am sure calling up guys in 2nd division in Sweden is better than bunch of young talented players who play in MLS (two of them are regular starters now). I wonder if people here support having players like DeRo, Porter and Jackovic on final roster who play for worst team in MLS or players like Ledgerwood who play in lower quality league over TFC youngers who have upside to become regular starters for national team in few years? EDIT: I hope final roster will have mix of quality vertern players with some young talented players with some upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Yes, that's true but then you can also argue that an injury to Rooney would lose a lot more money for a lot more people so it's a bigger risk. Either way it's a player playing for their country in a major tournament because it's something they choose to do. I know I'd be there I hope those guys feel the same. You know De Guzman is going to be there (say what you want about him but he's committed). Should be interesting. JDG may have made some judgement errors, but his loyalty is totally commendable. And if Hutchinson turns out to be one of the players that isn't risking injury...then he's certainly going to be useful. I'm sort of with Keegan on this. UEFA tournaments...friendlies...time and time again, European nations turn out their best players, out of contract or not. Not just Rooney, but whoever. The only difference with Canada is that playing for us certainly doesn't gain you as much exposure on a worldwide level, even as much as playing for say...Norway. Being a member of UEFA definitely has it's privileges exposure-wise. So the argument is...which players are doing it for the love of country, and love of game...and which ones are doing it for alternative reasons? We certainly know which category JDG's BROTHER falls into. But I truly believe Rooney does it for national pride and love of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I am loving TFC bashing here even though they're not worst team or play in worst league. I am sure calling up guys in 2nd division in Sweden is better than bunch of young talented players who play in MLS (two of them are regular starters now). I wonder if people here support having players like DeRo, Porter and Jackovic on final roster who play for worst team in MLS or players like Ledgerwood who play in lower quality league over TFC youngers who have upside to become regular starters for national team in few years? EDIT: I hope final roster will have mix of quality vertern players with some young talented players with some upside. TBF people aren't upset that TFC players are getting called up because they play for TFC. In fact people seem pretty happy with both Osorio and Henry. But you have to admit that were Bekker and especially Morgan playing for any American MLS team they would not be on the squad (well actually Bekker and Morgan would probably not be the with the first team of any American MLS squad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 But I truly believe Rooney does it for national pride and love of the game. Besides the point, but I really don't think this is true. Were Rooney in the same situation as these players - obviously super hypothetical - I don't think he'd be going to the Gold Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Besides the point, but I really don't think this is true. Were Rooney in the same situation as these players - obviously super hypothetical - I don't think he'd be going to the Gold Cup. Different situation. It's a lot easier to do it for love of country and game in his situation. I'm not disagreeing with you on that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Is it possible that some of the larger FAs in Europe have insurance for their players and we don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Is it possible that some of the larger FAs in Europe have insurance for their players and we don't? The FA payed Newcastle 10 million pounds in damages after Michael Owen tore his cruciate in the 2006 World Cup. EDIT: Of course this wouldn't help at all for our unattached players who don't have contracts to be reimbursed by the association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I've got a question for those of you questioning Morgan being called up: Who else from the 35-man preliminary roster can play left back if De Jong gets hurt? As for Bekker, I actually tend to agree that he should be left at TFC as Canada is not short on central midfielders and he's not playing enough to warrant a call-up. Henry and Osorio absolutely deserve to be on the final GC roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I am pissed bekker and Morgan have been called. What kind if message is that sending? There are enough players on that 35 man roster to only select those that have earned their spot. If we do not see one of arid or Aleman because we have selected an undeserving bekker I am boycotting this tournament. Well not really but I will be extremely disgusted. Yes I know arid and Aleman are even less deserving if we consider their club situations, but they are younger, more promising prospects who need to be cap tied. Edit: I just remembered that klukowski was not on the preliminary roster, so we need a back up for de Jong and Morgan must be it. Ugh, I suppose it may be a chance for him to gain some confidence and help gain his spot back at TFC. Then again though, with Darren Odea at LB for the foreseeable future that does not look likely anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Bekker over Bernier is a joke I don't care what their ages are. Selecting a MLS benchwarmer (who would actually BENEFIT by not being selected) over an MLS All Star. Canadian Soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Bekker over Bernier is a joke I don't care what their ages are. Selecting a MLS benchwarmer (who would actually BENEFIT by not being selected) over an MLS All Star. Canadian Soccer. It is truly baffling isn't it? Bernier is putting up solid numbers again this season. Having him and Johnson holding for us would have been so sick. Sadly this will not happen and there is no clue as to why. Thus we have been forced to (once again) question the sanity of those at the CSA. FFS Bernier would probably have made the preliminary roster of the Americans if he qualified! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I think there's other reasons with Bernier though, like perhaps club commitment...busy schedule with CCL looming...otherwise Tissot would be just as likely as Morgan at this point... But I have always been on the same side as you that we should try to call our best team for the Gold Cup...but there are others who were saying they wanted this to be a tournament to test out the prospects. You are right...if prospects it must be I'd much prefer Aleman to Bekker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingback6 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I don't understand why Osorio is the focus. The roster stands to be incredibly weak and that's not even close to the first place that I'd cast a speculative glance. The way Morgan has played this year, I question whether he'll still be in MLS come 2014. Henry is still very much a young defender good for one large error a game. Bekker barely plays and has looked so-so in his limited action. Even outside TFC I see several names on that list that do not have a single minute of first team action to their name. Morgan's form has not changed. He is simply not in the plans of Nelsen, who has a 'long ball' approach to running a team, which seems to be working. Morgan is a wingback, not Morgan's style. I question whether he will stay at TFC, but not his ability. Bekker on the other hand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingback6 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I don't understand why Osorio is the focus. The roster stands to be incredibly weak and that's not even close to the first place that I'd cast a speculative glance. The way Morgan has played this year, I question whether he'll still be in MLS come 2014. Henry is still very much a young defender good for one large error a game. Bekker barely plays and has looked so-so in his limited action. Even outside TFC I see several names on that list that do not have a single minute of first team action to their name. Weak? Well how strong was our squad in Honduras? Many on here, including myself, believed in the strength of those men at that time. And look how that turned out. Who would we bring back, of the miserable bastards who shamed their nation that day? Hume? his club situation is sketchy at best. Weak? The only thing WEAK I see is pathetic pre-emptive moaning from people who claim to be fans. Tomorrow (or the next day) our team for the Gold Cup will be picked. Show some stones and stand up for em, and save your bitching for your knitting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Morgan's form has not changed. He is simply not in the plans of Nelsen, who has a 'long ball' approach to running a team, which seems to be working. Morgan is a wingback, not Morgan's style. I question whether he will stay at TFC, but not his ability. Bekker on the other hand.... I disagree with you there. Morgan is out of favor with Nelsen because he hasn't been playing well, not because its a style choice. The kiss of death was the red card in philadelphia that helped lead to a goal. He's had a rough season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I disagree with you there. Morgan is out of favor with Nelsen because he hasn't been playing well, not because its a style choice. The kiss of death was the red card in philadelphia that helped lead to a goal. He's had a rough season. Well Nelsen disagreed with that decision so it's safe to say that wasn't his kiss of death. Morgan's play has definitely contributed to it but it wasn't because of that incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I think it is a combination of the two. The few times I watched Morgan play this year he did not appear to be as sharp. Was he terrible? No not really, but his main weak point has been (and continues to be) below average defensive positioning. I think that Nelson gave him a chance and then opted for a more experienced defender who is more sound in his defensive awareness. First it was Russell, who isn't really a defender but is just a more experienced footballer and hence a safer choice from the view of a defence first coach (which Nelson certainly is). Now he has figured out he can play O'dea out there without loosing experience in central defense (recall that Caldwell was brought in before Odea moved out wide). In Essence, O'dea was able to move wide because Caldwell is able to take over O'dea's role in central defense. Unfortunately for Morgan the team is more stable in the back as a result. I think the only way he sees the field now is to get minutes in a high left attacking role or wide left midfield role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Weak? Well how strong was our squad in Honduras? Many on here, including myself, believed in the strength of those men at that time. And look how that turned out. Who would we bring back, of the miserable bastards who shamed their nation that day? Hume? his club situation is sketchy at best. Weak? The only thing WEAK I see is pathetic pre-emptive moaning from people who claim to be fans. Tomorrow (or the next day) our team for the Gold Cup will be picked. Show some stones and stand up for em, and save your bitching for your knitting! Says the guy who is constantly bitching on here about various players? Personally I do not agree with much of what you post on here but you are certainly entitled to your opinion but don't be calling out others for criticizing players when you constantly do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I think there's other reasons with Bernier though, like perhaps club commitment...busy schedule with CCL looming...otherwise Tissot would be just as likely as Morgan at this point... But I have always been on the same side as you that we should try to call our best team for the Gold Cup...but there are others who were saying they wanted this to be a tournament to test out the prospects. You are right...if prospects it must be I'd much prefer Aleman to Bekker. Bernier was willing to go and was not asked. Yes it makes no sense but the reasons for this do not stem from Bernier. And while I do not have any concrete information on the Impact's position I really doubt they would have objected to a call up either. I can not recall the Impact ever refusing a call up before even at times when it was very inconvenient. I think Bernier's exclusion is the decision of Miller/Fonseca. Doesn't make sense but what does make sense in Canadian soccer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 For the guys that are going to miss due to being out of contract I really don't see that as a solid excuse. You can bet that if Rooney was out of contract he'd still be playing for England. It's their career and they are free to do what they wish but for those that make those choice I think we highlight their names for the future when maybe they are in a battle for a WCQ roster spot or *gasp* even a WORLD CUP roster spot and take it into account that they turned a call down before for a MAJOR tournament. The TFC calls I'm really not crazy about for many reasons (TFC's standing in the league isn't one because this is a league built on parity, that's like Canada Hockey not calling up Rick Nash when he was on Columbus) but the two obvious ones are this: Bekker and Morgan are as undeserving as it comes at this point... WTF. It would actually be much more beneficial for Bekker to stay at TFC while Osorio is at the Gold Cup to get MINUTES and help TFC... this is just stupid on the part of the CSA and TFC. Safe to say assume Aird on Aleman will NOT be on the final roster if we're calling in Bekker... FFS. He was a guy I had pencilled in months ago but you can't give him a spot for sitting on the bench that's not right. If some out of contract players do not come I suspect it is an insurance issue. Out of contract players do not want to play without proper insurance in place and probably the CSA does not value the Gold Cup high enough to pay a substantial insurance fee for them to come. I would not blame a player for not coming in such a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 ^Is' t that what happened with Jason Bent? Injured while playing withthe national team against Ireland and no insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I've got a question for those of you questioning Morgan being called up: Who else from the 35-man preliminary roster can play left back when De Jong gets hurt in the first training session? fyp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I've got a question for those of you questioning Morgan being called up: Who else from the 35-man preliminary roster can play left back if De Jong gets hurt? I think ATM I'd prefer any centre back on the 35 to fill in as left back than Morgan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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