The Importance of Jr. Hoilett

[1zzurri]

This is all really just part of a broader plan to make us more sad later.

So be happy now.

I for one, still know the universe hates us.

lol This

[Ruffian]

This addition moves REB and Simeon Jackson to a fringe role on CanMNT, and probably affects Issey's chances at a call up also. I would say it is progress for the Canadian team when these players are just depth.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Forgive me if I'm ignorant but I find it hard to believe that it was ever realistic to expect him to play for the national team while he was still giving europe a real shot.  To me, this MUST mean he's considering coming over to North America.  Its simply unrealistic to expect him to travel across the atlantic constantly, regardless of so called nationalism.  

I guess I can understand people's reluctance, but for me it's what he does from now on.  I'm willing to let things go if it means we beat Honduras with his help.  

[Obinna]

I'm pretty sure his comment is related to Hoilett.  JDV also used to comment a lot about players like Junior on the TSN FC podcast, always harping on how playing for Canada isn't an honour to players anymore.

You could absolutely be right my friend but that tweet alone doesn't necesscaily tell us that. I respect JDV but I have to say that even his comments (which I have heard before), are based on an assumption about Junior. That is of course unless he has first-hand knowledge from Junior on how he feels (which he might, but we don't know).

[madmonte]

 

There is something to it alright: you are all being emotional and that is leading you to call a new CMNT player a hypocrite. Whether or not I change your opinion, it is "making up shit" to call him a hypocrite based on your (and others, not picking on just you buddy) emotionally-fuelled opinion that is based on a false premise that not playing for a team = not supporting a team. That is false false false and you all are entitled to your opinion of him or the situation but I am going to keep pointing out that this opinion is not backed up by facts. When you call someone something because you have an opinion rooted in a false premise I take issue with that.

I mean go ahead and take issue with it, it doesn't change the view on it.  I will say this.  I personally am not meaning to call him a hypocrite straight out.  It's a little harsh, especially when right now it's the CSA Company Line to say come out and support and he was probably asked by the CSA to include that in his statement.  How can THAT make him a hypocrite?

That said, saying something hypocritical doesn't make you a hypocrite by nature.  I don't mean to question Hoilett's integrity in that regard.  However, I don't think it's illogical, or making shit up, or a false premise to say that there is some hypocrisy (by definition of the word) in telling people to come out in person to support, when he didn't come out in person to support.  In the statement itself there is hypocrisy, but unintentional on his part.  There are plenty of people that didn't show up to the games or buy jerseys, or support in any way, and he's basically telling those people they need to come out in person and make the stadium loud.  Whether or not he supported us by the water cooler, it would have meant a lot more had he come out and supported ie played in person.  There is certainly some hypocrisy in that statement based on that.

Edited September 30, 2015 by madmonte

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

This whole thread reeks of post friendzone bitterness.  She has better options on the table, but she didn't wanna completely throw what you had away...  Can you blame her ?  

[youllneverwalkalone]

I'm happy with this. He's a good player by our standards.

[Tuscan]

This thread being THE deciding factor in Jr. joining the #CanMNT program: Confirmed

[gator]

This thread being THE deciding factor in Jr. joining the #CanMNT program: Confirmed

The question is though, how important is he now?

[madmonte]

This whole thread reeks of post friendzone bitterness.  She has better options on the table, but she didn't wanna completely throw what you had away...  Can you blame her ?  

lol yes we can blame her.   Again the big worry, as always, is making the statement that it's okay to hold out and wait for better options, because Canada as a program has often suffered because of these attitudes.  Welcoming Junior with completely open arms and no discussion means that it is always okay to hold out.  And because that hurts the Canadian soccer program, I think that this is a point worth discussing.

Is that so unfair?  Just for a second let us ignore any of the other perhaps unfair emotional responses by myself and others (which I don't think were overboard), but let's throw them aside just for a minute, and speak to that point alone?

Edited September 30, 2015 by madmonte

[Lord Bob]

I'm glad loyal players are going to be sidelined by a massively-promoted English Championship reserve player who didn't have a fucking millisecond for us when his career was going well.

[Obinna]

 

I mean go ahead and take issue with it, it doesn't change the view on it.  I will say this.  I personally am not meaning to call him a hypocrite straight out.  

So you do not mean to call him a hypocrite but you support the idea that he is acting hypocritical?

That said, I don't think it's illogical, or making shit up, or a false premise to say that there is some hypocrisy (by definition of the word) in telling people to come out in person to support, when he didn't come out in person to support.  

Do you have evidence that he has never supported a CMNT game in person? If so, you might actually have case that he's acting hypocritcally. So, do you?

More likely though, you still can't see that playing for a team is not necessarily the same as supporting a team in person. Believing they are is beliving in a false premise. How can you possibly argue otherwise is beyond me.

[king1010]

Forgive me if I'm ignorant but I find it hard to believe that it was ever realistic to expect him to play for the national team while he was still giving europe a real shot.  To me, this MUST mean he's considering coming over to North America.  Its simply unrealistic to expect him to travel across the atlantic constantly, regardless of so called nationalism.

I guess I can understand people's reluctance, but for me it's what he does from now on.  I'm willing to let things go if it means we beat Honduras with his help.

But half our national team plays outside of North America and travels longs distances for call ups?

[Ruffian]

And I thought this forum was to talk about Canadian Soccer and not about feelings! I was wrong.

[madmonte]

So you do not mean to call him a hypocrite but you support the idea that he is acting hypocritical?

Do you have evidence that he has never supported a CMNT game in person? If so, you might actually have case that he's acting hypocritcally. So, do you?

More likely though, you still can't see that playing for a team is not necessarily the same as supporting a team in person. Believing they are is beliving in a false premise. How can you possibly argue otherwise is beyond me.

 1) Yes, because the CSA probably asked him to say it.  I have no evidence of that, but I don't think he is a hypocritical person by nature, just that he unintentionally said something that has some hypocrisy in it.

2) You damn well know I meant played for us.  And you're damn right that's what I mean when you have the talent to do so.  Obviously. You yourself would put on the red in a heartbeat no questions asked and be super honored to do so.  There is NO false premise here.  At all.  None.  He...held...out...

Sid Seixeiro 

 

✔@Sid_Seixeiro

After spending the last five years waiting for a better country to call him up Junior Hoilett finally commits to Canadian Soccer. My hero.

Edited September 30, 2015 by madmonte

[CUJO]

Waaahhhh I'm so mad a top player chose to play for Canada instead of our concacaf rivals Jamaica!! Grr its obvious he's using the team for his own benefits, what with the lack of evidence and all. It doesn't matter that he can improve chances of qualifying for a WQ, I'm still mad!!!

Hahahahahahaha get over yourselves

Edited September 30, 2015 by CUJO

[king1010]

I'm glad loyal players are going to be sidelined by a massively-promoted English Championship reserve player who didn't have a fucking millisecond for us when his career was going well.

Such is the case in life. Not just sports.

 

You can be the most loyal and dedicated. But if someone is better you become expendable. Whether it is your multi billion dollar corporation or a team trying to qualify to the world cup.

 

You don't think other teams that make it to the World Cup face similar decisions? Did Spain have to drop a loyal striker when diego costa jumped on board.

 

The real world aint fair.

[El Hombre]

There is something to it alright: you are all being emotional and that is leading you to call a new CMNT player a hypocrite. Whether or not I change your opinion, it is "making up shit" to call him a hypocrite based on your (and others, not picking on just you buddy) emotionally-fuelled opinion that is based on a false premise that not playing for a team = not supporting a team. That is false false false and you all are entitled to your opinion of him or the situation but I am going to keep pointing out that this opinion is not backed up by facts. When you call someone something because you have an opinion rooted in a false premise I take issue with that.

Don't mind me, just quoting this for the next time everyone assumes their opinion is much more valid than our coach's.

It's amazing how much benefit of the doubt is being extended to someone who hasn't even played for us yet, and so little for our coach.  It will be interesting to revisit this when we have a ten page thread about how Floro hasn't called up player X or tactics Y were completely incorrect.

[Tuscan]

You know, perhaps we need to take a step back from our own views of how Canada deserves this or that, and consider our place in international football. We're a beggar nation, plain and simple. We have no real coaching curriculum or pathway, no real refereeing pathway, and no player pathway. Quite frankly, we're the skinny, broke 20yr old who's looking at all these fit 20 somethings w good jobs wondering why they get all the babes. Until things are fixed internally we should never expect higher profile players to ever choose us for their international career when they have other options of more promising countries available to them.

Also, how the fuck do I only have +10 reputation on this board?? Chris King1010 is full of shit and he's a +34! madmonte is even MORE full of shit and he's a goddamned +72!!! Fuck all of you

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

lol yes we can blame her.   Again the big worry, as always, is making the statement that it's okay to hold out and wait for better options, because Canada as a program has often suffered because of these attitudes.  Welcoming Junior with completely open arms and no discussion means that it is always okay to hold out.  And because that hurts the Canadian soccer program, I think that this is a point worth discussing.

Is that so unfair?  Just for a second let us ignore any of the other perhaps unfair emotional responses by myself and others (which I don't think were overboard), but let's throw them aside just for a minute, and speak to that point alone?

hahaha you've got a point of course, I was merely commenting on the emotional tone of this thread, and you at least gotta admit that I hit the nail on the head there.  In terms of sending a message, you're right, but I guess I choose to look at it as, well, we are working out, doing our thing, gaining in confidence, and well.. kinda getting Hot.  Lol or maybe I just need to stop watching days of our lives?

[zeelaw]

But half our national team plays outside of North America and travels longs distances for call ups?

Yeah but those are players who always wanted to play for Canada lol.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

You know, perhaps we need to take a step back from our own views of how Canada deserves this or that, and consider our place in international football. We're a beggar nation, plain and simple. We have no real coaching curriculum or pathway, no real refereeing pathway, and no player pathway. Quite frankly, we're the skinny, broke 20yr old who's looking at all these fit 20 somethings w good jobs wondering why they get all the babes. Until things are fixed internally we should never expect higher profile players to ever choose us for their international career when they have other options of more promising countries available to them.

Also, how the fuck do I only have +10 reputation on this board?? Chris King1010 is full of shit and he's a +34! madmonte is even MORE full of shit and he's a goddamned +72!!! Fuck all of you

Misery loves company hahahaha

[shermanator]

Its going to be REALLY awkward when Floro  selects Bekker over Hoilett against Honduras.... 

Also, how the fuck do I only have +10 reputation on this board?? Chris King1010 is full of shit and he's a +34! madmonte is even MORE full of shit and he's a goddamned +72!!! Fuck all of you

Because fuck you thats why!  Signed, that guy with +81.

But for real real, give Tuscan +100 for being "the chest of Canadian soccer"

Edited September 30, 2015 by shermanator

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

But half our national team plays outside of North America and travels longs distances for call ups?

Mm... yes .. good point .. I'm dumb.   I'm new here, I'll need a couple mulligans.

[Obinna]

lol yes we can blame her.   Again the big worry, as always, is making the statement that it's okay to hold out and wait for better options, because Canada as a program has often suffered because of these attitudes.  Welcoming Junior with completely open arms and no discussion means that it is always okay to hold out.  And because that hurts the Canadian soccer program, I think that this is a point worth discussing.

Is that so unfair?  Just for a second let us ignore any of the other perhaps unfair emotional responses by myself and others (which I don't think were overboard), but let's throw them aside just for a minute, and speak to that point alone?

I agree and support discussion, absolutely!

I get that there are people who want to guard against, or rather, eliminate the idea that we should be second choice. It is in our best interest to create the perception that Canada should always be the number one choice.

Personally, I believe that changes with results on the field that build prestige over the long term. That means getting the best players eligible. Perhaps coaches are also of the opinion that you can't force a player to choose a side (the Hart/Floro/Klinsman approach).

That being said, I liked the idea TFC had in forcing youth players to commit to Canada if selected (I don't remember the exact guidlines).

Aside from that I am not quite sure what can be done to force mature players to pick one side or another when they are legitimately eligible for both. Shutting them out is not the answer and seems childish to me. I don't believe you can make an example of players like Vitoria and expect it to make an impact.