Canadian Soccer History (and Where Are They Now) Thread

[narduch]

When Herdman called Brym last window it reminded me of Yallop calling Peters. 

Obviously not the same magnitude 

 

[The Real Marc]

Binstock really cracked his leg, I think that's what ended his time in Denmark.

[El Diego]

8 hours ago, nolando said:

Lol wtf

[shorty]

15 hours ago, rkomar said:

I went to Queen's in the 80's and early 90's, and I wouldn't have described Richardson stadium as a being that bad.  But to be fair, I was usually pretty wasted when I was there, so maybe my aesthetic senses weren't at their highest.

Lol. I was going to post virtually the same thing.  I was a ‘93. My only memories of Richardson other than badly filmed CanMNT qualifiers involved wayyy too much Purple Jesus. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

5 hours ago, An Observer said:

The thing i find most interesting about this list is not the Friend's, Occean's, or Gerba's but guys who were in good youth set ups or even senior sides that we were once high on but didn't pan out like Shepherd, Binstock, Ramalho, Canizalez. And who I have completely forgotten about existed.

That was a big part of the intention of starting this thread.  On the board now, every new player has an individual thread dedicated to them and the weight of expectations that they will do big things.  The fact is most will not, so maybe while it's fun to dream we should temper our expectations. 

I should add, when Herdman said he had 3500 players he was watching, and some expressed doubt, back in the day when I administered the MOACA I also kept the names that were dropped from the list.  Let me tell you there were a lot of names.  There were tons of guys who had big club tryouts and then for lack of a better word disappeared.  Maybe that is a good enough reason to have the CPL, a second chance.

I'll bet ya I didn't word that one very well

Edited October 20, 2021 by Joe MacCarthy

[SoccMan]

20 hours ago, johnyb said:

Yes, shoved the opposing team's keeper when he wouldn't release the ball.

Ya got a long suspension for that a crazy amount of games , but you know a player can go down pretending he is dying to kill time or try to get a player carded but that’s ok , sometimes I wonder why I follow this sport , that was a joke of a suspension especially how long he was suspended for .

Edited October 20, 2021 by SoccMan

[SoccMan]

20 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

During the great Herdman debate I posted lamenting we had less top tier players than we had around the time of the posted list.  Even though this was before David, Larin etc, I wonder if it still is true.  But at that time, unlike recent years we had very few in MLS.

When you look at some of the players we had and where they were playing the ones in Europe I mean , how many more do we have now compared to some of those teams . We had a center back playing and starting in Germany’s top flight , we don’t have that now . Ocean was playing regularly in Germany’s top league as a striker and so was Friend , DeGuzman in la Liga , Staltieri winning championships in Germany and then playing in the EPL  and Radinsky too . Simpson in Turkey and Hutchinson, Aguiar with Benfica , how about Peschisolido in basically what is the English Championship right now . The Difference is no Davies and the depth that the MLS is providing us now . But I hate to say it but in terms of players playing in Europe now how much different is it from then ? I would say we had more players playing at higher levels in Europe than we do now . How the hell did we not even make the hex with some of these players ? The CSA I’m looking at you !  Of course I’m not including the traders Heargreaves,  the other DeGuzman and the keeper who went on and chose Bosnia who’s I'm too lazy to look up . 

Edited October 20, 2021 by SoccMan

[aloyol]

What are the latest news on Joey Torchia? 

[Joe MacCarthy]

3 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

When you look at some of the players we had and where they were playing the ones in Europe I mean , how many more do we have now compared to some of those teams . We had a center back playing and starting in Germany’s top flight , we don’t have that now . Ocean was playing regularly in Germany’s top league as a striker and so was Friend , DeGuzman in la Liga , Staltieri winning championships in Germany and then playing in the EPL  and Radinsky too . Simpson in Turkey and Hutchinson, Aguiar with Benfica , how about Peschisolido in basically what is the English Championship right now . The Difference is no Davies and the depth that the MLS is providing us now . But I hate to say it but in terms of players playing in Europe now how much different is it from then ? I would say we had more players playing at higher levels in Europe than we do now . How the hell did we not even make the hex with some of these players ? The CSA I’m looking at you !

Totally agree with you, that's what I was trying to say.  But I won't lay all this on the CSA.  I am sure many will disagree with me but a part of it was one man hurt this program (I'm looking at you Ho) and one man helped fix it (Phonsie)  And then we add Herdman to the mix. 

Maybe we should be thinking ahead to what happens when Herdmann is gone, we'll still have good players but will we have all those intangibles that bring them together.  That we can put on the CSA.  As of now, I'm still trying to figure out if we are as good a team as we think we are.

[Joe MacCarthy]

4 hours ago, narduch said:

When Herdman called Brym last window it reminded me of Yallop calling Peters.

Or Holger calling Atiba

[SoccMan]

11 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Totally agree with you, that's what I was trying to say.  But I won't lay all this on the CSA.  I am sure many will disagree with me but a part of it was one man hurt this program (I'm looking at you Ho) and one man helped fix it (Phonsie)  And then we add Herdman to the mix. 

Maybe we should be thinking ahead to what happens when Herdmann is gone, we'll still have good players but will we have all those intangibles that bring them together.  That we can put on the CSA.  As of now, I'm still trying to figure out if we are as good a team as we think we are.

The CSA played a part but yes can’t take the full blame , I think the difference is the depth that the MLS is giving us now and some of the key players like Osorio, Johnson, Laryea , Miller , Piette and even a Cavallini that are making a difference with the national team. Back then our rosters were filled out with USL and 3rd division players playing in Europe , now we can dip into the MLS to provide that depth and not have to go to USL or Europe’s lower divisions to provide depth . Moreover, we have a coach that has everyone on board and don’t have situations where for example a guy like Aguiar playing for Benfica or even Osorio with Floro not being picked , the players that should be there are there.  

[Joe MacCarthy]

I posted this recently but I'm not sure many saw it.  This is a real blast from the past, what soccer looked like in my day.  Some of you prepare to be shocked.  BTW this is Empire Stadium in Vancouver  Video below  is cued

Some trivia (via Wikipedia)  In 1970, it became the first facility in Canada to have artificial playing surface installed made by 3M, under the brand name "Tartan Turf".   Of course, it also hosted the Miracle Mile in 1954 (well worth watching if you haven't seen it, one of sport history's great events)

[Joe MacCarthy]

13 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

The CSA played a part but yes can’t take the full blame , I think the difference is the depth that the MLS is giving us now and some of the key players like Osorio, Johnson, Laryea , Miller , Piette and even a Cavallini that are making a difference with the national team. Back then our rosters were filled out with USL and 3rd division players playing in Europe , now we can dip into the MLS to provide that depth and not have to go to USL or Europe’s lower divisions to provide depth . Moreover, we have a coach that has everyone on board and don’t have situations where for example a guy like Aguiar playing for Benfica or even Osorio with Floro not being picked , the players that should be there are there.  

Again totally agree, especially about MLS but maybe we can sub Arfield for Aguiar.  Skilled enough player but doesn't fit the group?  I'm sure some will say he "fit the group" before, but there is a reason he's not there, same with Aguiar.  Either his skill has diminished or he doesn't "fit the group"  You don't not call good players for no reason.

[SoccMan]

3 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I posted this recently but I'm not sure many saw it.  This is a real blast from the past, what soccer looked like in my day.  Some of you prepare to be shocked.  BTW this is Empire Stadium in Vancouver  Video below  is cued

Some trivia (via Wikipedia)  In 1970, it became the first facility in Canada to have artificial playing surface installed made by 3M, under the brand name "Tartan Turf".   Of course, it also hosted the Miracle Mile in 1954 (well worth watching if you haven't seen it, one of sport history's great events)

Wow ya remember Canada playing Mexico in a World Cup qualifier here in Toronto at the old Exhibition Stadium I think it was for the 82 World Cup I think we tied 1-1 . However, don’t forget I remember when CONCACAF World Cup qualifying at least the last round was held at a designated country by having  a tournament that usually took about two weeks to finish, you would play each country once , I think there were like 8 countries in that final round and the top two going to the World Cup . Therefore , no home and away style like we have now more like they do in the youth World Cup qualifying where you play a qualifying tournament with one country hosting the tournament.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Just found most of the Canada USA game above here

Interesting to see how many of the players in this game ended up in the WC six years later:  Segota, Lenarduzzi, Gray, Mitchell, Lettieri to start with, after watching only a few minutes.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Joe MacCarthy

[The Real Marc]

53 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

When you look at some of the players we had and where they were playing the ones in Europe I mean , how many more do we have now compared to some of those teams . We had a center back playing and starting in Germany’s top flight , we don’t have that now . Ocean was playing regularly in Germany’s top league as a striker and so was Friend , DeGuzman in la Liga , Staltieri winning championships in Germany and then playing in the EPL  and Radinsky too . Simpson in Turkey and Hutchinson, Aguiar with Benfica , how about Peschisolido in basically what is the English Championship right now . The Difference is no Davies and the depth that the MLS is providing us now . But I hate to say it but in terms of players playing in Europe now how much different is it from then ? I would say we had more players playing at higher levels in Europe than we do now . How the hell did we not even make the hex with some of these players ? The CSA I’m looking at you !  Of course I’m not including the traders Heargreaves,  the other DeGuzman and the keeper who went on and chose Bosnia who’s I'm too lazy to look up . 

I agree, but we also have to look at the quality of play. Sure, Friend and Occean were in the Bundesliga. They also weren't scoring. Aguiar was a Benfica backup, with most of the rest of his career in the second tier. Once Pesch went to Fulham, he didn't score more than maybe 6 or 7 goals a season for a decade. Edgar never really solidified his role in the UK. A lot of those others guys were on more marginal clubs. That's not crapping on any of them, they're amongst my favourites, but I feel like our European players are more critical to their clubs and more individually accomplished than in the past.

[AvroArrow]

2 hours ago, SoccMan said:

Ya got a long suspension for that a crazy amount of games , but you know a player can go down pretending he is dying to kill time or try to get a player carded but that’s ok , sometimes I wonder why I follow this sport , that was a joke of a suspension especially how long he was suspended for .

I think this one is still a mystery as I've never heard what specifically triggered such a huge suspension.  I vaguely recall the CSA not doing much about it and kind of ignoring Occean after it.  Did he do or say something severe?

[SoccMan]

46 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Just found most of the Canada USA game above here

Interesting to see how many of the players in this game ended up in the WC six years later:  Segota, Lenarduzzi, Gray, Lettieri to start with, after watching only a few minutes.

Yes the NASL provided most of the players on that 86 team , unfortunately the league folded in 84 so a lot of those players had to go play indoor to make a living , so we had guys playing indoor soccer playing for us in the World Cup in 86 but had played many years in the NASL before that . 

[Joe MacCarthy]

I think it's important to remember our history and honour those that helped pave the way.  Here is the lineup from that 1980 game that was attempting to qualify for WC Spain 1982.  Some interesting bios there.

Tino Lettieri
Bob Iarusci
Bob Lenarduzzi
Bob Bolitho
John McGrane
Wes McLeod
Branko Segota
Jeno "Gene" Strenicer
Dale Mitchell
Mike Stojanovic
Bruce Miller
Gerry Gray

Edited October 20, 2021 by Joe MacCarthy

[BrennanFan]

32 minutes ago, AvroArrow said:

I think this one is still a mystery as I've never heard what specifically triggered such a huge suspension.  I vaguely recall the CSA not doing much about it and kind of ignoring Occean after it.  Did he do or say something severe?

Occean spoke to media after the elimination and threw Stephen Hart under the bus: "because the last coach was really an amateur. The training was not a very high level and lacked some professionalism. The coach did not really know how to manage the team. It is unfortunate because we had a really good group."  Sometimes the truth hurts.  Occean never played for Canada again after that.  Was 31 years old by then but he still played at a decent level in Norway and was probably still our best forward option until Larin and Cavallini emerged in 2015.

Occean had an interesting international career trajectory.  He burst onto the CanMNT scene in 2004 and was a mainstay in the team under Yallop.  After Yallop left, he was overshadowed by Friend and Gerba and didn't get many caps after that (only played twice between 2008-2010), didn't play any Gold Cups aside from 2005, and only made one sub appearance in the 2008 WCQ.  However, he managed to outlast both Friend and Gerba, and was our starting centre forward in 2011-2012 WCQ and scored a big away goal for us in Cuba.  Like Friend and Gerba, Occean had his moments, but overall underachieved as did that whole generation.     

Occean 28 caps, 6 goals

Friend 32 caps, 2 goals

Gerba, 31 caps, 15 goals

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/593619/olivier-occean-hauts-bas

Edited October 20, 2021 by BrennanFan

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, SoccMan said:

When you look at some of the players we had and where they were playing the ones in Europe I mean , how many more do we have now compared to some of those teams . We had a center back playing and starting in Germany’s top flight , we don’t have that now . Ocean was playing regularly in Germany’s top league as a striker and so was Friend , DeGuzman in la Liga , Staltieri winning championships in Germany and then playing in the EPL  and Radinsky too . Simpson in Turkey and Hutchinson, Aguiar with Benfica , how about Peschisolido in basically what is the English Championship right now . The Difference is no Davies and the depth that the MLS is providing us now . But I hate to say it but in terms of players playing in Europe now how much different is it from then ? I would say we had more players playing at higher levels in Europe than we do now . How the hell did we not even make the hex with some of these players ? The CSA I’m looking at you !  Of course I’m not including the traders Heargreaves,  the other DeGuzman and the keeper who went on and chose Bosnia who’s I'm too lazy to look up . 

The thing about that, is that these were all happening at different times:

We had a center back playing and starting in Germany’s top flight , we don’t have that now .

I assume this is McKenna with Koln, so that would be around 2008/2009.  Unless you are talking about his time with Cottbus in 2001.

Ocean was playing regularly in Germany’s top league as a striker

Occean played in the Bundesliga in 2012.

and so was Friend ,

That would be around 2008/2009.

DeGuzman in la Liga ,

That would be from 2005 to 2009ish.

Staltieri winning championships in Germany and then playing in the EPL

He won the Bundesliga in 2003/04 and moved to Tottenham in 2005.

and Radinsky too .

Radzinski was quality for awhile but was best between 2002 and 2006.

Simpson in Turkey

Simpson tore up Turkey in 2010/2011.

and Hutchinson,

Hutch has always been class but was at the top of his game with Copenhagen around 2007ish

Aguiar with Benfica ,

He was with Benfica in 2003.

how about Peschisolido in basically what is the English Championship right now .

Paul was best pre-2002.

So yeah, there are a ton of great players but they all hit at different times which is why we never pulled it together.  This team is a lot like golfing, one or two good strokes always keeps you coming back.  With this team, it was always one or two really strong players that kept you watching.  Unlike the current team where a bunch of guys are hitting their stride all at the same time.

 

[VinceA]

20 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

The thing about that, is that these were all happening at different times:

We had a center back playing and starting in Germany’s top flight , we don’t have that now .

I assume this is McKenna with Koln, so that would be around 2008/2009.  Unless you are talking about his time with Cottbus in 2001.

Ocean was playing regularly in Germany’s top league as a striker

Occean played in the Bundesliga in 2012.

and so was Friend ,

That would be around 2008/2009.

DeGuzman in la Liga ,

That would be from 2005 to 2009ish.

Staltieri winning championships in Germany and then playing in the EPL

He won the Bundesliga in 2003/04 and moved to Tottenham in 2005.

and Radinsky too .

Radzinski was quality for awhile but was best between 2002 and 2006.

Simpson in Turkey

Simpson tore up Turkey in 2010/2011.

and Hutchinson,

Hutch has always been class but was at the top of his game with Copenhagen around 2007ish

Aguiar with Benfica ,

He was with Benfica in 2003.

how about Peschisolido in basically what is the English Championship right now .

Paul was best pre-2002.

So yeah, there are a ton of great players but they all hit at different times which is why we never pulled it together.  This team is a lot like golfing, one or two good strokes always keeps you coming back.  With this team, it was always one or two really strong players that kept you watching.  Unlike the current team where a bunch of guys are hitting their stride all at the same time.

 

On paper it seems we should have had at least a decent chance of getting to the 2006 WC. The midfield would have had Atiba, JDG, Bernier, De Ro. Occean, Gerba, Friend as FW options and McKenna, Stalteri, Brennan and Hirschfeld leading the defense. But alas games aren't won on paper. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by VinceA

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, VinceA said:

On paper it seems we should have had at least a decent chance of getting to the 2006 WC. The midfield would have had Atiba, JDG, Bernier, De Ro. Occean, Gerba, Friend as FW options and McKenna, Stalteri, Brennan and Hirschfeld leading the defense. But alas games aren't won on paper. 

Yes.  That team was amazing on paper.  As I mentioned, we destroyed Belize.  If the team that played in Kingston (ONTARIO) against Belize was the same team that would've played Guatemala two months later, that campaign would've gone different.  We replaced McKenna and Devos with Pizzolitto and Watson, Radzinski with Occean.  Hume and Atiba and Brennan were all nowhere to be seen.  Still should've done better than we did though.

That's the thing, unless you had a perfect storm of all the right players at the right time (2007 Gold Cup), it was a real crap shoot.

[SoccMan]

22 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Yes.  That team was amazing on paper.  As I mentioned, we destroyed Belize.  If the team that played in Kingston (ONTARIO) against Belize was the same team that would've played Guatemala two months later, that campaign would've gone different.  We replaced McKenna and Devos with Pizzolitto and Watson, Radzinski with Occean.  Hume and Atiba and Brennan were all nowhere to be seen.  Still should've done better than we did though.

That's the thing, unless you had a perfect storm of all the right players at the right time (2007 Gold Cup), it was a real crap shoot.

Also we needed a coach like Herdman who cares more about knowing what needs to be done and knowing that you need your best players on the field as much as possible. We can’t have coaches like in the past who care more about their hurt feelings rather than making sure every eligible good player was on the field . Too many times in the past we had players that missed out in important games for unknown reasons . I remember even on this board players with questionable talent being praised because they were always answering the call to the national team . In the end it’s about having the majority of your best horses on the roster and Herdman I think understands this . Apart from Arfield he has basically gotten every Canadian player that should be there to play apart from odd injury in some games . I can go on and on about past World Cup qualifying games where certain players who should have been playing and were eligible to play we’re not there , but of course we always had the less talented guys always answering the call . Respect to those players who always answered the call but what did it get us ? No Hex and no World Cups , sometimes as a coach you need to swallow your pride and get the best talent on the field and you do everything possible to make that happen .

[Joe MacCarthy]

Remember this?  May give us an insight into some future possibilities

Estonia beats Canada in snowstorm soccer
CBC Sports March 26, 2008

The weather outside was frightful, and so was the final result for Canada.

The Canadian men's soccer team dropped a 2-0 decision to Estonia Wednesday in an exhibition match played out in a brutal snowstorm in Tallinn.

Under normal circumstances, a loss to Estonia, ranked No. 129 in the world by FIFA, would count as a major source of embarrassment for Canada (No. 62), but Wednesday's game was anything but normal. Snow poured down on the field throughout the entire game, leading to very slippery conditions and making it virtually impossible for players to make accurate passes and maintain possession.

The downpour was so bad that groundskeepers tried to clear the field of the dreaded white stuff prior to the kickoff, but to no avail — as mounds were piled up on the sidelines, more snow continued to fall down and covered the field in a white blanket.

After a goalless first half, Estonia broke the deadlock in the 60th minute when it scored an own-goal. Paul Stalteri failed to properly deal with an Estonian cross into the box delivered from the right wing, as the ball went off the Canadian defender's shoulder and into the net past goalkeeper Lars Hirschfeld.

The Canadians tried to press for the equalizer, but Estonia defended its lead and then added a second goal with a minute left in regulation time when Vjatseslav Zahovaiko beat the offside trap and then rounded Hirschfeld before slotting the ball home.

Canada lost 2-1 to Estonia in Tallinn on March 29, 2003, in the only other meeting between these two countries.

Canada's next friendly is against Panama on June 6 in Panama City. That game will act as a tune-up for Canada, who plays Saint Vincent & the Grenadines nine days later in its first qualifying match for the 2010 FIFA World Cup in South Africa.