Gloire Amanda

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 hours ago, phresh said:

You cannot say it's the past and then completely ignore the comments stating we have core players who came from the NCAA. And then I can just as easily say Nathan Opoku is another in a relatively long list of players that went to Europe and hit the ground running. The amount of top North American prospects that commit to NCAA programs is near zero, it is simply an alternate path for lesser known players to reach the pro level. 

 

More like we have core players, probably our best, who either never touched NCAA (Davies, David, Eustaquio, Borjan, Hoillet, Atiba, Osorio, Vitoria, Millar and others), or got out quickly not even doing more than half a degree (Larin, Buchanan). I think Miller and Johnston did more. 

The lesson from our best generation in history is ignore the NCAA and if you can't, get out as soon as you can.

[Bison44]

It may be fading, but until we have enough pro teams, academies, coverage and exposure that our best youngsters have opportunities at 18, it is still useful, even if its only 1-2 years.  It would be nice, but we arent europe yet, there arent teams and youth programs everywhere with pathways to the pros for every kid with talent.   Sure the best of the best (Davies/Daivd etc) wont and shouldnt mess with NCAA, but many anon kids in parts of the country with no soccer culture could be going far and making it to the CMNT, and they can do it with NCAA or Usports. 

We would all like to drive a sports car, but until you get one, you need to borrow your uncles hatch back it'll still get you there.   

[VinceA]

46 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

It may be fading, but until we have enough pro teams, academies, coverage and exposure that our best youngsters have opportunities at 18, it is still useful, even if its only 1-2 years.  It would be nice, but we arent europe yet, there arent teams and youth programs everywhere with pathways to the pros for every kid with talent.   Sure the best of the best (Davies/Daivd etc) wont and shouldnt mess with NCAA, but many anon kids in parts of the country with no soccer culture could be going far and making it to the CMNT, and they can do it with NCAA or Usports. 

We would all like to drive a sports car, but until you get one, you need to borrow your uncles hatch back it'll still get you there.   

Hell some guys rode their bicycle all the way to a World Cup spot.

[Unnamed Trialist]

So embarrassing to see the total disrespect for quality higher education disguised as an athletic career path. And more so when any average Canadian university undergrad program is better than the vast majority of "good" NCAA soccer schools.

So make a dumb move for your soccer path and and dumb it down even more for your education.

[Ruffian]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So embarrassing to see the total disrespect for quality higher education disguised as an athletic career path. And more so when any average Canadian university undergrad program is better than the vast majority of "good" NCAA soccer schools.

So make a dumb move for your soccer path and and dumb it down even more for your education.

Your comments on this forum are always very knowledgeable and thoughtful but whenever the subject is English football, Toronto and now apparently NCAA I take the comments with a grain of salt.

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

Your comments on this forum are always very knowledgeable and thoughtful but whenever the subject is English football, Toronto and now apparently NCAA I take the comments with a grain of salt.

Always good to watch the salt, bro.

[InglewoodJack]

NCAA is a good path if you're not good enough to go pro at 18 and you want to hedge your bets by getting an education to rely on if pro ball doesn't work out for you. I have no insider knowledge, but my guess is that some of our NCAA players took that route not being as certain of their professional future as guys like David and Davies were. Doesn't Alistair Johnston have a business degree from Wake Forest? I'm not sure when he embarked on his NCAA journey that he thought an MLS, let alone European future was in the cards. I think these players prioritize life security over the best chance at playing high level soccer, and for like 95% of them, it's the right choice.

I think back to a lot of kids in hockey who leave high school and go play in the CHL because it's the best developmental league in the world, and at 21, when their shoulder is string cheese, they have nowhere to go and barely a high school education to rely on. Then I think of a failed prospect like Louis Leblanc who retired in his mid 20s, took advantage of his Harvard hockey scholarship and per linkedin, now works in private equity at Oliver Wyman, where realistically, he has much higher career earnings potential than the average NHL player who will likely play around 5 years in the league.

We think of players in terms of their sporting potential, but the reality is that most players in our (or any) system are not good enough to be high level professional athletes, and the ones who break through in their late teens or early 20s are anomalies, and not the norm. With that in mind, the players have to consider their choices in terms of how it impacts their entire lives, not just a potential future in sport.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

NCAA is a good path if you're not good enough to go pro at 18 and you want to hedge your bets by getting an education to rely on if pro ball doesn't work out for you. I have no insider knowledge, but my guess is that some of our NCAA players took that route not being as certain of their professional future as guys like David and Davies were. Doesn't Alistair Johnston have a business degree from Wake Forest? I'm not sure when he embarked on his NCAA journey that he thought an MLS, let alone European future was in the cards. I think these players prioritize life security over the best chance at playing high level soccer, and for like 95% of them, it's the right choice.

I think back to a lot of kids in hockey who leave high school and go play in the CHL because it's the best developmental league in the world, and at 21, when their shoulder is string cheese, they have nowhere to go and barely a high school education to rely on. Then I think of a failed prospect like Louis Leblanc who retired in his mid 20s, took advantage of his Harvard hockey scholarship and per linkedin, now works in private equity at Oliver Wyman, where realistically, he has much higher career earnings potential than the average NHL player who will likely play around 5 years in the league.

We think of players in terms of their sporting potential, but the reality is that most players in our (or any) system are not good enough to be high level professional athletes, and the ones who break through in their late teens or early 20s are anomalies, and not the norm. With that in mind, the players have to consider their choices in terms of how it impacts their entire lives, not just a potential future in sport.

But you are talking about less than 1% of pros in the world, and in a few years it will not even be majority amongst US players anymore. Women are learning the same lesson, too, we have good cases of Canadian women also giving the finger to NCAA.

If you want to play, play. If you want a degree, study at the best university you can find and get the best education you possibly can. University soccer is a low level, fraudent because of the coaching and season length, and does not prepare you at all for a pro career. 

At least recognize this, and stop disrespecting Canadian university education which is cheaper and in most cases better if you just stay close to home. 

The point is, if you want an education, go get an education, not some bullshit scholarship at a bogus US university, which is the vast majority of cases. I have a friend whose kid, who played good u19 at the same level as mine, and was an uninterested highschool student, who went on scholarship to UMKC. Played for the KC PDL team a summer. My friend proudly told me he was getting A+ and A marks, the whole way, when he was a C+ student at high school. Then went to Seattle University during Covid, which is a better soccer school and actually makes you study, and he dropped soccer within the year. Went back to KC to do some business courses at some community college. 

Even the good schools amongst the best soccer universities, like Stanford, dumb down the studies somewhat for the kids on scholarship. The majority of the top 50 are poor places to be learning.

That is fraud, and that is the majority of cases in US programs. It is not like American football, where the vast majority have to be from US university programs. It is not like basketball, where maybe 85-90% in the NBA, including many foreigners, went through NCAA. In soccer it is a fake path, because it is bad for your soccer develpment--you need to play against guys who are good some 30 games over 9-10 months-- and not giving you a useful education at all.

The sooner we wipe NCAA out of a kid's head who aspires to play football, the better.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[InglewoodJack]

15 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

But you are talking about less than 1% of pros in the world, and in a few years it will not even be majority amongst US players anymore. Women are learning the same lesson, too, we have good cases of Canadian women also giving the finger to NCAA.

If you want to play, play. If you want a degree, study at the best university you can find and get the best education you possibly can. University soccer is a low level, fraudent because of the coaching and season length, and does not prepare you at all for a pro career. 

At least recognize this, and stop disrespecting Canadian university education which is cheaper and in most cases better if you just stay close to home. 

The point is, if you want an education, go get an education, not some bullshit scholarship at a bogus US university, which is the vast majority of cases. I have a friend whose kid, who played good u19 at the same level as mine, and was an uninterested highschool student, who went on scholarship to UMKC. Played for the KC PDL team a summer. My friend proudly told me he was getting A+ and A marks, the whole way, when he was a C+ student at high school. Then went to Seattle University during Covid, which is a better soccer school and actually makes you study, and he dropped soccer within the year. Went back to KC to do some business courses at some community college. 

Even the good schools amongst the best soccer universities, like Stanford, dumb down the studies somewhat for the kids on scholarship. The majority of the top 50 are poor places to be learning.

That is fraud, and that is the majority of cases in US programs. It is not like American football, where the vast majority have to be from US university programs. It is not like basketball, where maybe 85-90% in the NBA, including many foreigners, went through NCAA. In soccer it is a fake path, because it is bad for your soccer develpment--you need to play against guys who are good some 30 games over 9-10 months-- and not giving you a useful education at all.

The sooner we wipe NCAA out of a kid's head who aspires to play football, the better.

I'm not arguing that NCAA is a good path to play pro soccer, I'm arguing that the players who choose that path are not players who are committed to a future in pro soccer. Countless athletes across every sport leverage their talents to get a scholarship and some like Alistair Johnston or Kamal Miller are late bloomers who find that extra gear in college, but most spend their 3-4 years in college, get a free bachelor's and move on with their lives. We're not talking about players turning down opportunities in Europe or guaranteed playing time in MLS to go and play for a D1 school, these are players who were not good enough at 18. The key thing here is that they get free education. If you don't have pro contract offers, that's the best use of your talents.

 

[red card]

9 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

 

I think back to a lot of kids in hockey who leave high school and go play in the CHL because it's the best developmental league in the world, and at 21, when their shoulder is string cheese, they have nowhere to go and barely a high school education to rely on. Then I think of a failed prospect like Louis Leblanc who retired in his mid 20s, took advantage of his Harvard hockey scholarship and per linkedin, now works in private equity at Oliver Wyman, where realistically, he has much higher career earnings potential than the average NHL player who will likely play around 5 years in the league.

We think of players in terms of their sporting potential, but the reality is that most players in our (or any) system are not good enough to be high level professional athletes, and the ones who break through in their late teens or early 20s are anomalies, and not the norm. With that in mind, the players have to consider their choices in terms of how it impacts their entire lives, not just a potential future in sport.

You're describing the bygone days. All CHL players ex international today must be enrolled in high school. Details vary by league but most expenses are paid including for tutors.

For post secondary to a Canada or US-based school, again details vary but for every year you play, you get a year of your post-secondary education paid. WHL says 375 players per year usually get a scholarship. CHL says it is the top Canadian provider of scholarships and gave out $10 million in 2022.

The vast majority of U Sports hockey players are aged out CHL players.

Edited September 11, 2023 by red card

[InglewoodJack]

14 hours ago, red card said:

You're describing the bygone days. All CHL players ex international today must be enrolled in high school. Details vary by league but most expenses are paid including for tutors.

For post secondary to a Canada or US-based school, again details vary but for every year you play, you get a year of your post-secondary education paid. WHL says 375 players per year usually get a scholarship. CHL says it is the top Canadian provider of scholarships and gave out $10 million in 2022.

The vast majority of U Sports hockey players are aged out CHL players.

They do get education, however, if we’re arguing that NCAA athletes get the easiest bird course course load possible, you can imagine the quality of education and dedication to learning offered to 16 year old kids in Brandon, MB or Rouyn-Noranda. Not that I think players shouldn’t go the CHL route because it is the best dev league in the world and if you have the quality to become an NHL player, that’s the way to go, but if you’re just a kid who is a good but not great player who can get a scholarship through sport but probably have zero chance at making the NHL, you should probably get that education to fall back on. It’s the same in soccer- we’re not talking about surefire prospects who had elite academy interest and prodigy-level talent. These are guys that were very good youth players and took that talent to help set up their future via a free education.

IIRC, Alistair Johnston was an okay CM when he went to St. John’s U, had a good season, transferred to Wake Forest because it’s a better school, they moved him to RB and the rest is history. Doesn’t read like a profile of a player who entered college with a guaranteed future in pro soccer in mind.

[Footyeh]

A bit off topic... but do we have a running list of Canadian players in the NCAA this season?

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, Footyeh said:

A bit off topic... but do we have a running list of Canadian players in the NCAA this season?

Always useful, glad someone puts it together.

[Shway]

Released from WFC2.

[SpursFlu]

This one has Vancouver fc written all over it

[Unnamed Trialist]

26 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

This one has Vancouver fc written all over it

Was thinking the same, but even then. 

I did watch some of his minutes in Austria. He seems disengaged, his is not connected to teams he plays for. And as an attacking mid or striker, I think he is far inferior to Bitar or Cantave. So there you go.

[SpursFlu]

16 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Was thinking the same, but even then. 

I did watch some of his minutes in Austria. He seems disengaged, his is not connected to teams he plays for. And as an attacking mid or striker, I think he is far inferior to Bitar or Cantave. So there you go.

It's not a whole lot different than Hundal. If he's not a starter and he's over 23. What's he really worth to a CPL team?