2017 Toronto FC season (aka the 2017 MLS Cup clinching thread)

[Gian-Luca]

I understand that an arrest has been made at the Columbus airport - the entire TFC squad and coaching staff have been charged with grand larceny for stealing three points.

[The Beaver]

And Raheem Edwards with key plays on both goals. (Like what I see from this kid. He needs to learn a thing or two--i.e. be calmer with the ball, improve his passing--but you cannot fault him for his audacity, his willingness to run at the D, and for his creativity.

Great for Ricketts, but more importantly this is a huge character-building win for TFC. They will take away a LOT of good things from this win against a very good side. MLS.com just ran an article about the deepest teams in the league, with TFC at the top, and today's win proves the point. (Still think Dallas is deeper, mind you.)

What I really love to see this year is Altidore's maturity. He is taking a leadership role, banging in goals, working his ass off, not taking stupid fouls, and acting like a true pro when he's subbed off (ahem). Look at how he reacts to both of Rickett's goals. The team has some strong leadership, and that will go a long way. I am a Caps fan first and foremost, but it is hard not to see that TFC is the real deal. And they are bleeding a few Canadians along the way. Chapman was okay tonight; he just needs more games. Smart footballer with good technical ability. Needs to keep pushing himself.

 

[Keegan]

Ricketts had a pretty awful game before the two goals if we're being honest.  Two nice finishes though! 

Chapman was a bit of a step down from his Seattle match, just seemed to be missing the final ball and also missed wide on a good chance.  Osorio was unlucky to be subbed out I thought, he was better than both Vazquez and Chapman in the first half IMO.  

Edwards, solid as always.  Aside from the two goals he also had a nice little run from his own half where he was just a little too heavy on his last touch.  Great impact sub.. he always surprises with his creativity and makes good decisions on the ball.  I haven't seen much talk but at this point he has to be a front runner for rookie of the year if he's eligible?  

[shermanator]

I watched the first 70 minutes, and the entire team looked completely out of it, including Osorio, Chapman and Ricketts. Switch over to the Voyageurs Cup, and miss a Ricketts brace. 

[Gian-Luca]

18 minutes ago, 1996 said:

Edwards comes in and has a hand in both goals as Ricketts scores two, like I said just like the NBA Canadian players should earn playing time they should not get playing time just because they are Canadian it should be earned, if your good enough you play simple as that, and Edwards is proving that, he is playing because he is earning it and so is Ricketts and Champan and Osorio too, if you earn it you play if not you don't no matter where you are from, just like the NBA Canadian players that play in the NBA have earned it, they are not playing there just because they are Canadian.

I found Caldwell's commentary a bit annoying tonight when he said this was a "missed opportunity" for Chapman, who, up until the time he got subbed off, was far more productive than either Vazquez or Bradley had been (he was the only one who seemed interested in shooting at the net and it was once again his pass that set up an penalty for Altidore, whereas Vazquez and Bradley got taken to the cleaners on the play that led to the Columbus PK). Bradley was also giving away the ball far too often and like most of the TFC team was poor on the night but Chapman plays better and gets singled out as having screwed up in some way, which I thought was harsh and in the vein you are talking about, it seems like there's an air in the media of Canadians having to prove themselves just because they are Canadians. (I'm not saying Vanney didn't make the right moves on the night by the way - Vazquez ended up getting two assists but that was after Chapman was subbed and this comment had been made).

Although it's a good thing that Ricketts scored twice because I also thought he was awful tonight when he came on until he scored. Really it was Edwards that changed the entire game and while they were talking about Vazquez being a candidate for the "newcomer" of the year award, at what point does Edwards start getting into consideration for rookie of the year? He has four assists already, which is twice as many as Cooper does in his TFC regular season career to put things in perspective.

[Ruffian]

11 hours ago, Keegan said:

Ricketts had a pretty awful game before the two goals if we're being honest.  Two nice finishes though! 

 

11 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Although it's a good thing that Ricketts scored twice because I also thought he was awful tonight when he came on until he scored. 

Ricketts never really does anything other than score goals at an unexpected rate and create chances that everybody claims he should have put away. He isn't able to dribble with the ball, his passes are generally poor and he has bad first touches all of the time but because of his speed he creates chances that most players would not be close to and puts them away at a good rate.

[Gian-Luca]

So by the time TFC finishes playing Minnesota on Saturday afternoon, several teams in the conference will have 3 games in hand on them. It will be 2 by the end of the weekend, but sheesh......

[Macksam]

19 hours ago, 1996 said:

Edwards comes in and has a hand in both goals as Ricketts scores two, like I said just like the NBA Canadian players should earn playing time they should not get playing time just because they are Canadian it should be earned, if your good enough you play simple as that, and Edwards is proving that, he is playing because he is earning it and so is Ricketts and Champan and Osorio too, if you earn it you play if not you don't no matter where you are from, just like the NBA Canadian players that play in the NBA have earned it, they are not playing there just because they are Canadian.

Nobody here advocates for the playing of Canadians just because they are Canadians. Everyone here believes playing time should be based on merit. Yes, people here advocate for Canadians to be treated as domestics on both US and Canadian based MLS clubs like their American counterparts but that's a different issue.

18 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

I found Caldwell's commentary a bit annoying tonight when he said this was a "missed opportunity" for Chapman, who, up until the time he got subbed off, was far more productive than either Vazquez or Bradley had been (he was the only one who seemed interested in shooting at the net and it was once again his pass that set up an penalty for Altidore, whereas Vazquez and Bradley got taken to the cleaners on the play that led to the Columbus PK). Bradley was also giving away the ball far too often and like most of the TFC team was poor on the night but Chapman plays better and gets singled out as having screwed up in some way, which I thought was harsh and in the vein you are talking about, it seems like there's an air in the media of Canadians having to prove themselves just because they are Canadians. (I'm not saying Vanney didn't make the right moves on the night by the way - Vazquez ended up getting two assists but that was after Chapman was subbed and this comment had been made).

Although it's a good thing that Ricketts scored twice because I also thought he was awful tonight when he came on until he scored. Really it was Edwards that changed the entire game and while they were talking about Vazquez being a candidate for the "newcomer" of the year award, at what point does Edwards start getting into consideration for rookie of the year? He has four assists already, which is twice as many as Cooper does in his TFC regular season career to put things in perspective.

I'll defend Caldwell here. Chapman is fighting for a starting spot unlike Bradley and Vazquez who are proven veterans who both have that "Sergio Ramos license" to make asinine decisions from time to time without repercussion. I think Caldwell's main issue was the same issue I had with Chapman when I first saw him way back in 2015, which is that he needs to really assert himself on the game and be a driving force. Now, he has shown that since the initial criticisms, but yesterday was a hiccup for him. 

7 hours ago, Ruffian said:

 

Ricketts never really does anything other than score goals at an unexpected rate and create chances that everybody claims he should have put away. He isn't able to dribble with the ball, his passes are generally poor and he has bad first touches all of the time but because of his speed he creates chances that most players would not be close to and puts them away at a good rate.

Ricketts is Ricketts. His ability is limited but he plays to his strengths with the tools he does have, and that makes him a good player on a good MLS team.

[canucklefan]

19 hours ago, 1996 said:

Edwards comes in and has a hand in both goals as Ricketts scores two, like I said just like the NBA Canadian players should earn playing time they should not get playing time just because they are Canadian it should be earned, if your good enough you play simple as that, and Edwards is proving that, he is playing because he is earning it and so is Ricketts and Champan and Osorio too, if you earn it you play if not you don't no matter where you are from, just like the NBA Canadian players that play in the NBA have earned it, they are not playing there just because they are Canadian.

I wouldn't have a problem with this argument if Canadians weren't considered internationals on American clubs, while Americans are considered locals boys in Canada. In the end, the current rules will always make sure to limit the number of Canadians in the league, but everyone who claims that playing time goes by merit, it seems he conveniently ignore this handicap on Canadian players.

[BearcatSA]

Columbus really tic-tac-toed the ball through midfield on way too many occasions apart from their opening goal.  The wingbacks tended to play deeper to ward off the threat of the swift counter-attack (a problem from the earlier meeting at BMO).  When in possession, TFC didn't have the same speed of ball movement they displayed in earlier matches.  Altidore was isolated most of the time and benefitted from some clown college defending leading up to his penalty.  Good to see Cheyrou have a strong sub appearance and his performance helped improve the linking play.  Glad to see Ricketts put away those chances. 

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, Macksam said:

 

I'll defend Caldwell here. Chapman is fighting for a starting spot unlike Bradley and Vazquez who are proven veterans who both have that "Sergio Ramos license" to make asinine decisions from time to time without repercussion. I think Caldwell's main issue was the same issue I had with Chapman when I first saw him way back in 2015, which is that he needs to really assert himself on the game and be a driving force. Now, he has shown that since the initial criticisms, but yesterday was a hiccup for him.

I don't think yesterday was a hiccup for him though - yes, I don't think he played as well as he did in Seattle four days earlier, but that doesn't mean I think he played poorly. I'd say he was the best and most assertive midfielder for TFC until he got subbed off. I think he's done enough in these two games to bump himself up ahead of Cooper in the midfield pecking order for now unless his form drops the way Cooper's has. (If Cooper starts ahead of Chapman on Saturday I would expect that to be more of a fatigue issue, similar to what they did with sitting  Delgado in this match).

I would be more tempted to put the drop in quality (in comparison to a very high standard against Seattle) down to factors largely beyond his control, namely not starting any games  the whole year then starting two games in four days with transcontinental flight in between; and perhaps more importantly, the confusion that I think resulted from Vanney playing three "No. 10" midfielders (Chapman, Vazquez, Osorio) on the field at the same time and for the first time as a trio. It looked vaguely like Vazquez was supposed to be the furthest forward of this trio with Osorio in more of a deep-lying defensive role (which doesn't really suit him IMO) but I wasn't quite sure what Chapman was supposed to be other than sort of on the right side of the 6-man midfield. With Vazquez in the spot that he played in on Saturday, he wasn't able to get as far forward for the link up play with Altidore and he wasn't helped by Beitashour also not getting further forward. That said he played a great ball for the penalty (two games in a row now) and between him and Vazquez was far more dangerous in getting forward and making dangerous runs and actually attempted to shoot at goal (I think the only TFC player to do so - PK aside - until Ricketts scored). I know Caldwell was complaining that Chapman was too slow on one play late in the game to get the ball up the field, maybe he should have considered fatigue could be considered a factor by that point under the circumstances? Given how slow the rest of the team looked the whole game and their penchant for turning around and passing the ball backwards, it stills seems harsh to me. Caldwell's commentary reminded me of a kid's team coach being overly harsh on his son's play on the pitch.

As soon as Edwards came on, the balance of the squad was finally right with Cheyrou more suited to the spot that Osorio was asked to play in, and Vazquez in turn was far more productive. I haven't heard Vanney's post-game comments yet but I'll be interesting to see if he admitted that he probably got the formation wrong to start this game.

 

[Gian-Luca]

41 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Columbus really tic-tac-toed the ball through midfield on way too many occasions apart from their opening goal.  The wingbacks tended to play deeper to ward off the threat of the swift counter-attack (a problem from the earlier meeting at BMO).

The earlier meeting this season was actually also in Columbus, FYI.

[TRM]

On 2017-05-10 at 8:03 PM, shermanator said:

I watched the first 70 minutes, and the entire team looked completely out of it, including Osorio, Chapman and Ricketts. Switch over to the Voyageurs Cup, and miss a Ricketts brace. 

PVR dude. PVR!!!!!

[BearcatSA]

16 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

The earlier meeting this season was actually also in Columbus, FYI.

Oops, brain cramp.  My bad.  Regardless, you could see the difference in the wingback play from the prior meeting.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

Oops, brain cramp.  My bad.  Regardless, you could see the difference in the wingback play from the prior meeting.

That was the one game of the year I didn't see most of (I think it was up against a Leaf playoff game or a crucial regular season game to clinch a playoff spot) so I'll take your word for it. I made up for it by re-watching Wednesday's game again yesterday and I was struck about how poor the back four that lasted throughout the game were - not only with the central defenders consistently getting beaten on corner kicks but how painfully slow they were in moving the ball forward and often missing their target when they did. Ironically the one guy who didn't have a glaring giveaway and/or a commit a foul for a PK was Mavinga, and he was the one sacrificed for another striker. If there is an achilles heel at the moment (ie. without Drew Moor) for TFC, it's how poorly the defenders (esp. the central defenders) are in distributing or being comfortable on the ball.

[BearcatSA]

5 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

That was the one game of the year I didn't see most of (I think it was up against a Leaf playoff game or a crucial regular season game to clinch a playoff spot) so I'll take your word for it.

Always a smart move

[Obinna]

Completely unrelated to the current discussion, but I want to just say that every time I read the title of this thread I wonder about our good friend Trollium. I wonder why he doesn't frequent these parts any more? 

[Bison44]

What was his prediction last year, about TFC being out of the playoff race by July or something.  He had a long post with the schedule and detailed how they were going to go winless the rest of the summer..etc etc.   I couldnt find it but looking back it was priceless.  

[Grizzly]

8 hours ago, Obinna said:

Completely unrelated to the current discussion, but I want to just say that every time I read the title of this thread I wonder about our good friend Trollium. I wonder why he doesn't frequent these parts any more? 

Probably because he retired and is doing a lot of travelling

[shermanator]

A little info into why Osorio was not in the 18 today.

 

[grasshopper1917]

4 minutes ago, shermanator said:

A little info into why Osorio was not in the 18 today.

 

I wish him well. The depth at TFC is unbelievable this year though, when one man goes down 2 more are comping at the bit to take his place..... like when GIO gets a splinter in his toe and goes out for a few game Ricketts is looking like a great choice up front. 

[Club Linesman]

An exciting game and some good performances.  With the injuries and early subs it could have led to lost points but they gutted it out and showed their class as a squad.  Thought Edwards, Mavinga and Jozy were really strong today. Bradley was awful at times and Cooper is becoming a major disappointment.  I would hope after a performance like that he will be nailed to the bench and Chapman or Osorio will get those minutes.

[Macksam]

Ricketts making a case for a Gold Cup call up.

[nolando]

35 minutes ago, Macksam said:

Ricketts making a case for a Gold Cup call up.

Isn't he ever!

 

[BearcatSA]

Armando Cooper:  where swift ball movement comes to die.