2017 Toronto FC season (aka the 2017 MLS Cup clinching thread)

[RS]

16 hours ago, Ivan said:

I heard Edwards isn't eligible for rookie of the year this year because he subbed in for 2 minutes in a league game last year?  Anyone else hear the same?

It was actually Larson who confirmed that tidbit.

[RS]

1 hour ago, Ivan said:

And to be fair, in today's Toronto Sun article, Larson praises Osorio's finish on the fourth goal.

He's always been high on Osorio, even going so far as to say that if he were American he'd big a much bigger name in MLS than he is.

[Ivan]

2 hours ago, RS said:

It was actually Larson who confirmed that tidbit.

Thanks for the clarification on Edwards RS.  Just to be clear, I am not a Larson hater.  I actually quite enjoy his coverage.  I was just bringing his articles into the board discussions.  Although, I will admit I didn't like the exaggerated praise of Spencer, while diminishing the contributions of Hamilton and Osorio the day before.

[Macksam]

 

27 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Thanks for the clarification on Edwards RS.  Just to be clear, I am not a Larson hater.  I actually quite enjoy his coverage.  I was just bringing his articles into the board discussions.  Although, I will admit I didn't like the exaggerated praise of Spencer, while diminishing the contributions of Hamilton and Osorio the day before.

Hamilton's assist for Osorio  >>>>>> Spencer's assist for Morrow

You can run and tell that Larson....homeboy

Seriously though, Hamilton made a great run with a sublime double touch and dribbled in between three Columbus players allowing space for Osorio to open up. He single handedly made that goal while all Spencer did is use his big frame to shield a bad first touch from the Columbus player before making an obvious wide pass to Morrow.

[grasshopper1917]

5 hours ago, El Hombre said:

No, seriously, fuck Ben Spencer.

I mean the Ben Spencer hate is a little ridiculous. It was the guys first appearance in MLS. He played 60 minutes grabbed an asssist and I agree he didn't look very good in his debut. Maybe they wanted to give him a look and see what he could do with the big club. At the end of the day TFC won the game 5-0 so why is everyone going all ape shit on Vanney and his player decisions?

Dont get me wrong I also think Hamilton would have been the better option but I don't think its a huge deal. Again they won the match 5-0 all is good. Now if Spencer starts getting a bunch of appearances that could be cause for concern but as it stands its 60 minutes. TFC is top of table and firing on all cyclinders - all is good - no need for all the hate. 

[Bison44]

Thats all true grasshopper, but that is what we said in april, speculating on the next TFC2 player deserving a MLS contract.  And when Babouli was waived, we all wondered who would get his slot?  Frasier, Hundal, Johnson, one of the defenders maybe.  But no it was Spencer, and I wondered what did he do to deserve that?  And after getting a glowing review for a lackluster debut performance (lets face it Morrow's shot should have been saved), it just seems like he is on his way to a bunch of appearances.  This board is full of guys complaining that Chapman, Babouli, Osorio and sometimes even Davies/Tabla etc fade or play inconsistent etc.  Whereas this guy is getting shots (and is likely to get more) when it sure seems like he has done very little to deserve it.  And for the goobers that always chime in "you are not at practice, the coach knows best", well if he is so good why didnt he show it with TFC2??  Because I watch those games, he doesnt bring much to the table.  

Compare with Greig at Vancouver, scored a ton of goals in USL, got a contract and a shot with the big club.  Makes a hell of alot more sense than this.  So I guess I am getting worked up for nothing, but I would rather them give shots to local CDN boys if the talent is anywhere similar.  And this is still a voyageur board eh?  I dont need to worry about keeping Vanney happy so I can continue to cover TFC.    

[shermanator]

I heard Ben Spencer punched a baby in the face one time.

[Complete Homer]

1 minute ago, shermanator said:

I heard Ben Spencer punched a baby in the face one time.

Nah, he kept missing. Got loaned to try to punch babies in Norway and Indianapolis but couldn't connect there either

[shermanator]

Fucking savage!

[Complete Homer]

21 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Fucking savage!

[Gian-Luca]

On 2017-05-27 at 1:37 PM, Complete Homer said:

They realized they need a second target man if they want to keep their shape when Altidore is out. He might be a Vanney pet project, but he's 6'4 and already in the system.

The problem with this is that based on the evidence to date he would be the 4th best target man on the team, rather than 2nd. At half time on Friday's game I posted to this board my surprise at seeing how poor he was in the air given his 6 foot 5  height - he was even getting beaten in the air by the Columbus left back. I re-watched the game this morning and was somewhat startled to hear Stephen Caldwell telling the audience that Spencer isn't good at the aerial game at the present time - and this was a comment coming from someone who was in the process of singing his praises!

He seems to have good technical on the ball skills and he can make decent passes, but if he's got lousy speed and is lousy in the air and hasn't shown an ability to finish, I don't think you have to be a dyed-in-the-wool Canadian soccer supporter to question what he's doing on the team, and hearing all this stuff about him being a de facto adopted child of Vanney's just emphasizes this feeling.

[Gian-Luca]

On 2017-05-27 at 6:07 PM, Ivan said:

I heard Edwards isn't eligible for rookie of the year this year because he subbed in for 2 minutes in a league game last year?  Anyone else hear the same?

Those are ridiculous league rules if that is the case. He wasn't even signed to a full-time first team contract last year. There should be a higher minimum rookie threshold than one second of play.

[Gian-Luca]

4 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

I mean the Ben Spencer hate is a little ridiculous. It was the guys first appearance in MLS. He played 60 minutes grabbed an asssist and I agree he didn't look very good in his debut. Maybe they wanted to give him a look and see what he could do with the big club. At the end of the day TFC won the game 5-0 so why is everyone going all ape shit on Vanney and his player decisions?

Dont get me wrong I also think Hamilton would have been the better option but I don't think its a huge deal. Again they won the match 5-0 all is good. Now if Spencer starts getting a bunch of appearances that could be cause for concern but as it stands its 60 minutes. TFC is top of table and firing on all cyclinders - all is good - no need for all the hate. 

In my case I don't hate the guy, it's more being an annoyed at TFC management for this personnel decision (including who was bumped out in the process) and the apparent reasons behind it. That is my only complaint on the season though thus far, it's been immensely satisfying otherwise (hopefully the same will be true of the Canadian championship).

[Grizzly]

I feel the same about Kyle Fisher at the Impact. Didn't look good in the USL and still does not look good in MLS despite the goal he scored last week (he is ok on offensive corners just does not defend that well). I don't think Lefevre is starting MLS CB but he is a decent backup and better than Fisher and of a similar calibre to Cabrera (Impact have a lot of mediocre Argentinians as well with Piatti being the exception). I have no problem seeing good Americans play for the Impact but it seems to be a Canadian MLS fan you have to be satisfied with seeing a lot of mediocre American players given opportunities on our team even when there seems to be better Canadians available. And in Montreal we have also had a bunch of media articles about how much Fisher has improved and I do not see it at all. He is a tall but slow defender who does not know where to be on the pitch. Look at this defending from two weeks ago where he just gives up an easily controllable ball back to the attacker. 

 

[Big_M]

Fisher is definitely better than Lefevre. With Lefevre it was just mistake after mistake that led straight to goals. He had never been this far into a season without a start and going on 28 he's probably done with the impact after this season

[Grizzly]

8 minutes ago, Big_M said:

Fisher is definitely better than Lefevre. With Lefevre it was just mistake after mistake that led straight to goals. He had never been this far into a season without a start and going on 28 he's probably done with the impact after this season

Nope I have watched both of them many games in person at the stadium. Lefevre was not particularly mistake prone, he has other flaws but was pretty steady and not prone to mistakes and a better cover for Ciman. Fisher looks like a deer in headlights on the pitch. Maybe he will get better but I don't see the potential, slow, not really good with the ball, no positioning instinct. Cebrara is a technically better player than Lefevre but is mistake prone so I would put him as equal to Lefevre but at least I see some possibility of improvement with Cebrara given his skill set. 

[Big_M]

Cabrera and Lefevre equal...good one

[Unnamed Trialist]

I really dislike the American journeymen, they irritate me, mostly for the same reasons stated: they just persist, they don't go away, and they are good at being journeymen. We are lacking in Canadians to challenge them for their spots. 

Like at Whitecaps: we have a backline of Williams, Parker and Harvey, and all are competent. They do the job. They are honest and hardworking. We have not found Canadian options that are clearly better, though Edgar would have given Parker a bit of competition most likely if he hadn't decided to play chicken with a car in preseason. De Jong is not as good as Harvey, I like Williams better than what Aird was doing for us last year. Even Jacobsen, grey, boring player, but does the job, hard to blame most of the time for goals against. Even Brek Shea, he is overpaid, and bothers me to have him in Vancouver, but you can't argue with the mentality, they are good competitors and ideal for not overly-ambitious MLS teams. 

Thing is, Spencer is not your journeyman profile really. Which is why you are right to question him getting minutes, he is just a tall guy who chose going pro over NCAA, so he has a few years of pro experience, more than most 22 year olds. But he is taking up a Canadian roster spot on TFC, for sure. I'd be hard-pressed to say the same about any of the Yankees on Whitecaps.

[RS]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I really dislike the American journeymen, they irritate me, mostly for the same reasons stated: they just persist, they don't go away, and they are good at being journeymen. We are lacking in Canadians to challenge them for their spots. 

Canada will have made it when we have a good amount of annoying journeymen. For now, the few journeymen we have are starters on our national team

[Bison44]

Its sad, anyone getting regular playing time anywhere is considered for a CMNT call up.  CPL cant happen soon enough.  

[Gian-Luca]

Article from Molinaro on Jordan Hamilton:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/jordan-hamilton-tfc-toronto-fc-mls-major-league-soccer-greg-vanney-ottawa-fury/

 

[Gian-Luca]

Conspicuous from his absence yesterday (though I haven't seen anyone comment upon it) is that Cooper wasn't even dressed for yesterday's CCL game (and that was with Edwards suspended). Wondering if he will even last the season with the team, although I think Endoh's performance as a right wing back (a spot that Cooper has played and provide cover fo) may have helped Cooper's case because Endoh was very poor in that position once again (he played better after Ricketts got hurt, Beitashour came on and he was moved up the pitch with fewer defensive responsibilities - although he still had several howlers from a chance-taking perspective).

Speaking of Ricketts, assuming he's out for a couple of weeks with what looked like a hamstring pull I am guessing he (a) won't play in Montreal for Canada and (b) won't play this weekend against NE. The Hamilton for Giovinco sub at the half was apparently pre-ordained (or rather Giovinco coming on at the half for a striker was but with Ricketts hurt that meant it could only be Hamilton) so I hope this is because they are wanting to save Hamilton's legs for a start on Saturday. On the other hand, as Spencer didn't play at all his legs will be even more rested so I guess there is a legitimate argument to be made - regardless of who has slept on Vanney's couch in the past - that he will start purely for squad rotation purposes.

[to70]

My guess is that Cooper was off with the Panama NMT. They have WCQ games coming up as well

[1996]

On 2017-05-29 at 11:40 AM, Bison44 said:

Its sad, anyone getting regular playing time anywhere is considered for a CMNT call up.  CPL cant happen soon enough.  

It shows that the MLS with all it's warts is a decent level soccer league, remember and people on this forum like to forget for some reason that the US national team a  national team that consistently qualifies for the World Cup and many times has made it out of their group in the World Cup to the second round and even quarters with many MLS players in the starting lineup, so the MLS has to be a decent level for that too happen no? Therefore , if a Canadian player is starting or playing a lot of minutes in the MLS of course he is almost an automatic call up to our national team, and with the CPL it will take a few years before a lot of CPL players can be considered for the national team, you will still see more MLS Canadian players who play major minutes be chosen over CPL players just for the fact that MLS will be a higher level league for awhile and maybe for many more years.

[AvroArrow]

Unless I was missing an injury, how low does Vanney rate Hamilton if he is starting Edwards up front?