Toronto CPL

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

5 hours ago, Fort York Redcoat1555362293 said:

What makes you think Vaughan would get behind a tier 2 team instead? They will be marketing to the same families that won't know how much better the Vaughan/York team is than the Toonies are now. i wish them luck but I fear we need 2 teams in the core to get Toronto to actual care in numbers. Toronto vs "GTA team" would be a one way rivalry for a while.

I think I would like to use your avatar as a template for a York logo idea.  Can I ask where you got it?

[DigzTFC]

This from 2014: Avg TFC Ticket Price $104 so its good to have context.  A CPL team would be aiming for $30-$50 range ticket.  That would play into a consumers decision.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/fjlg45hjdd/1-toronto-fc-avg-price-104-year-over-year-change-7-22/#7119982f7a1a

To me a perceived 2nd tier is relative.  If you define second tier as level below the first tier then CPL will be just that.  I think the challenge for the CPL will be to narrow the talent gap between MLS and itself where CPL teams will be much more competitive than the NASL/USL clubs. The CPL has to be a higher standard to attract sophisticated fans.   By way of the proposed salary cap, I think one can assume the CPL will strive to have similar talent to MLS non-dp players.  I think any city including pockets of Toronto would get behind such a team and that level of talent if the proper marketing and the infrastructure is in place. 

Edited June 8, 2017 by DigzTFC

[lazlo_80]

so it needs a new facility and needs a rebrand and it needs to be higher standard than USL out of the blocks to potentially attract fans. Honestly I appreciate the loyalty some of you have for your community but you aren't exactly making the greatest case for Vaughn.

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, DigzTFC said:

This from 2014: Avg TFC Ticket Price $104 so its good to have context.  A CPL team would be aiming for $30-$50 range ticket.  That would play into a consumers decision.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/fjlg45hjdd/1-toronto-fc-avg-price-104-year-over-year-change-7-22/#7119982f7a1a

To me a perceived 2nd tier is relative.  If you define second tier as level below the first tier then CPL will be just that.  I think the challenge for the CPL will be to narrow the talent gap between MLS and itself where CPL teams will be much more competitive than the NASL/USL clubs. The CPL has to be a higher standard to attract sophisticated fans.   By way of the proposed salary cap, I think one can assume the CPL will strive to have similar talent to MLS non-dp players.  I think any city including pockets of Toronto would get behind such a team and that level of talent if the proper marketing and the infrastructure is in place. 

Even lower probably.

Also, $104 was the average ticket price? It must be even more now. Hopefully Canadian sheeples will wake up when a CPL team comes along and realize there are better options than letting some gutless, government protected, monopoly loving Corp like MLSE (Bell/Rogers) put a big stiff one in their derrières. But then again, a lot of the people here are sheep that love overpaying for shit in general because they don't know any better. Makes me glad the younger generation is cord cutting like crazy. Gives me some hope for the future.

I keep thinking of an act by Ron White a few years back on how he grew up in a town that's major employer was a paper mill and the air outside always smelled like shit thinking at the time that's how the world smelled in general until he finally ventured outside to another area and wondered what that beautiful smell was...which was nothing more than the unpolluted world. 

Paper mill = MLSE/professional Canadian sports owners in general/Canadian telecommunications companies

Outside world = CPL

Edited June 8, 2017 by Macksam

[yellowsweatygorilla]

10 hours ago, Ansem said:

Vaughan to succeed needs the following:

• The right name: York is better than Vaughan. Vaughan has a population of ~319k while York Region as a whole, it's 1.1M, an increase of 7.5%. It's more appealing to go after the entire region than just Vaughan.
• The right location: The TTC is currently building 2 new subway stations in Vaughan set to open this December. The city is building a "downtown" from scratch, if that group of owner could acquire land as close as possible next to 1 of the 2 stations, it could work. The Highway 407 station is next to highway 407 with a massive parking lot. There's lots of land there and it becomes convenient to access the stadium

• The right ownership: We can include everything here from competent marketing, deep pockets willing and able to invest lots of capital in the team, right management team, etc...
• The right infrastructure: If you look 2nd rated, you will be treated as such. Anything less than a pop up with a roof like Empire Field in Vancouver would be a disappointment.

I'd like to remind people that the Empire Field:

• cost in 2010 around $14M
• took less than a year to be built (111 days) by  the Nussli Group of Switzerland, which specializes in the construction of temporary stadiums.
• could sit 27,528 fans and had 12 corporate suites
• Several commentators stated that use of temporary stadiums on a permanent basis could be used for other MLS and CFL stadia. For instance, the price of building an 18,500 seat permanent soccer-specific stadium was averaging $200 million.
• A CPL stadium with grass with half the capacity in today's dollars should still be less. I hope that's what's going to happen all across Canada

Absolutely, I was about to post something similar. It has to be marketed as York. Living in North York, I'd be reluctant to support Vaughan as it's not something I'd geographically identify with.

[Complete Homer]

Ideally, a name that was a nod to something local but also generalisable to Toronto is best, to help the team at onset without standing in the way of further expansion

As in a name like Toronto "X", where X is a nod (though not necessarily obvious) to something regional within Toronto/GTA

[Gopherbashi]

As someone who grew up in York Region; a Vaughan team wouldn't be a huge draw for me.  It simply wouldn't be mine.  A York team would.

[Fort York Redcoat1555362293]

17 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

I think I would like to use your avatar as a template for a York logo idea.  Can I ask where you got it?

Just google pics. It's a beer brewed in Stroud UK up the road from Bristol (near Gloucester). 

 

[Fort York Redcoat1555362293]

21 hours ago, Macksam said:

CPL isn't tier 2 though.

And this will be our everloving challenge explaining to casuals that won't see the difference. I was just getting the ball rolling. 

[Red Renaissance]

I may be dreaming but another sweet location for a stadium would be where the abandoned massive AMC Interchange 30 is. Tons of parking and surrounded by entertainment options, Right across the new downtown and subway that will pop up soon. The demolition costs alone would be a fortune I would imagine. Another potential site I was thinking about was York University, technically right on the border of Vaughan and Toronto and right off the new Pioneer Creek subway, until I remembered the terrible eye sore that is the lines for their 'egg-hand' varsity team.

 How about a team name of Greater Toronto x- implies 'suburbs' vs the world. If not, York seems to be the way to go in terms of maximing support in the region, I'm pretty sure thats what the York Region Shooters of the CPSL were going for but didn't quite work out for them, I guess my 'Vaughan City Victory' club idea will never come to fruition

[Fort York Redcoat1555362293]

20 hours ago, Kent said:

What is this supposed to mean? Are you saying a Toronto CPL team would definitely be better on the field than a Brampton/Mississauga/Vaughan/Markham/whatever team? Or that a Toronto CPL team would definitely have better support than a Brampton/Mississauga/Vaughan/Markham/whatever team?

It's possible that a Toronto CPL team will be well supported, and I hope that if it happens it will be well supported. But there is also a real chance that it won't catch on.

TCPL supporter: You should check out the new Toronto soccer team?

Casual fan: You mean TFC?

TCPL supporter: No, the Toronto CPLs!

Casual fan: Did TFC change their name?

TCPL supporter: No, it's another team.

Casual fan: Oh, Toronto got another MLS team?

TCPL supporter: No, it's a new league.

Casual fan: So is this new Toronto team better than TFC?

TCPL supporter: Well, no, not at the moment. But they are critical for the Canadian national team.

Casual fan: Oh, I see. TFC have 3 or 4 guys on the national team. So this new team has more?

TCPL supporter: Well... no.

It has zero to do with quality or numbers at their stadium and everything to do with population. A league at this level is far more likely to be able to create instant city derbies. I mean that Torontonians need that to mean neighbourhoods not neighbouring cities or "boroughs". 

I love to see the civic pride from Vaughan or any burb for that matter but it's the scarcity of it that prevents me from getting behind it vs how attractive a Toronto derby would be to me.

But I realize the model and planning lean towards one Lamport team and one or more outside Toronto. Not really a derby. 

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Fort York Redcoat1555362293 said:

It has zero to do with quality or numbers at their stadium and everything to do with population. A league at this level is far more likely to be able to create instant city derbies. I mean that Torontonians need that to mean neighbourhoods not neighbouring cities or "boroughs". 

I love to see the civic pride from Vaughan or any burb for that matter but it's the scarcity of it that prevents me from getting behind it vs how attractive a Toronto derby would be to me.

But I realize the model and planning lean towards one Lamport team and one or more outside Toronto. Not really a derby. 

So you mean with a GTA team and a Toronto team that the GTA team fans would consider it a rivalry, but the Toronto team fans wouldn't? That's the point you are trying to get across? Not trying to discredit that idea, just trying to understand your position.

[Fort York Redcoat1555362293]

23 minutes ago, Kent said:

So you mean with a GTA team and a Toronto team that the GTA team fans would consider it a rivalry, but the Toronto team fans wouldn't? That's the point you are trying to get across? Not trying to discredit that idea, just trying to understand your position.

Yes. 

It's all addressing knowing the target, really. While I think this is going to be a family league, appeasing supporters that would love a two team city is attractive to most.

With this kind of league we should be looking at tweaking the now familiar:

"Toronto vs everybody" and be more "Everybody vs Toronto (And we don't care)" mentality.

This league (if there's only one Toronto team) we will be Goliath compared to every other NA league where we are trying to be David.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Fort York Redcoat

[BrennanFan]

Everyone good with meeting at the Duke of York 39 Prince Arthur Ave on Friday June 30th?

Close to Varsity and former home of the Toronto Blizzard Supporters back in the day.

7 pm pre (and post) the L1O game at Varsity.

[fmfranck]

On 08/06/2017 at 9:29 PM, Complete Homer said:

Ideally, a name that was a nod to something local but also generalisable to Toronto is best, to help the team at onset without standing in the way of further expansion

As in a name like Toronto "X", where X is a nod (though not necessarily obvious) to something regional within Toronto/GTA

Isn't the term York a reference to Toronto as a whole since it is basically Toronto's initial name? I really think York is the best name for a potential club.  

- It has a link to "history", something that is important in football culture. 

- It has a link to England, thus football. 

- It also refers to a market that is far enough from BMO field so that : 

• Some people might prefer to make the drive there, rather than head DT into traffic. 
• It is less easily associated / compared to TFC. 
• It might attract new supporters that want to root for a locality that they identify with (bit like Jersey vs New York). 

Edited June 11, 2017 by fmfranck

[matty]

On 2017-6-10 at 0:04 PM, BrennanFan said:

Everyone good with meeting at the Duke of York 39 Prince Arthur Ave on Friday June 30th?

Close to Varsity and former home of the Toronto Blizzard Supporters back in the day.

7 pm pre (and post) the L1O game at Varsity.

Everyone that can go should go. I sadly cannot due to a friend's "surprise" wedding

[ironcub14]

23 hours ago, fmfranck said:

Isn't the term York a reference to Toronto as a whole since it is basically Toronto's initial name? I really think York is the best name for a potential club.  

- It has a link to "history", something that is important in football culture. 

- It has a link to England, thus football. 

- It also refers to a market that is far enough from BMO field so that : 

• Some people might prefer to make the drive there, rather than head DT into traffic. 
• It is less easily associated / compared to TFC. 
• It might attract new supporters that want to root for a locality that they identify with (bit like Jersey vs New York). 

York Athletic F.C.

[Gopherbashi]

7 hours ago, matty said:

Everyone that can go should go. I sadly cannot due to a friend's "surprise" wedding

I'm doing something called "work"

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

10 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

York Athletic F.C.

I like

nickname "The Redcoats"

?

[Red Renaissance]

York Legion

[johnluckpickherd]

I'm up for the Duke of York. I could ask to reserve some space before the match on the 30th.

[ironcub14]

9 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

I like

nickname "The Redcoats"

?

If you'd like man, feel free to run with it

[yellowsweatygorilla]

10 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

I like

nickname "The Redcoats"

?

Please no military-based names. And given the history/politics of the Canadian military, especially when you are going back to earlier histories of displacement ... we're really wading into difficult territory.

[Complete Homer]

On 09/06/2017 at 9:40 AM, Fort York Redcoat1555362293 said:

And this will be our everloving challenge explaining to casuals that won't see the difference. I was just getting the ball rolling. 

Helps to avoid calling it Tier 2 in the first place

[ironcub14]

I've looked for, and never found, an official proper definition of CSA tiers 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, beyond some really vague general descriptions on CSA's annual Rules and Regulations about national, provincial, regional, something like that.

This would be a really good year for CSA to specifically lay out what they are looking for in the specific tiers. Cater it specifically to CPL if they want, give out waivers like USSF does for NASL/USL if they like, but I do think the whole tier 1 vs tier 2 debate is a bit interesting when CSA is so vague about its actual guidelines. I've decided to swallow the kool-aid and just leave the topic alone for the most part, but wanted to put this out there.