Benito Floro's contract will not be renewed

[Dub Narcotic]

I would never hire Sigi Schmid, overrated and on the decline. Bradley would be a good hire but I don't know if he has the interest and the CSA has the money. 

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Alright, which one of you is Vic's dummy account?

[Ansem]

http://www.tsn.ca/inside-floro-s-tenure-with-the-canadian-men-s-team-1.567511

Article about Floro tenure

[RJB]

On 9/14/2016 at 1:03 PM, Gian-Luca said:

I'd guess I'd be more sympathetic if he didn't take the risk of deliberately not calling some of our best players - but that's what he chose to do and we weren't successful with it.

7 hours ago, El Hombre said:

While I agree that he picked our best (Johnson being the only caveat to that), I think his deployment of our best was woeful.  While all our best were somewhere on the team list, they weren't used in a fashion that would be successful.  That's where he fell down.

So, I'm to go there with Will Johnson: Is he a bad teammate?  He's repeatedly cited as a confusing and ridiculous omission, and so I wonder if Floro has a reason for that.  Perhaps he's a bit of a cancer, or just a very difficult player?  Perhaps these are the reasons, and perhaps they are good ones - if in fact his is the case.

Let's not forget, that it was Floro who recalled him after a significant absence from the team.  

23 hours ago, The Ref said:

Congratulations CSA for finally getting rid of Floro.

Question to Voyageurs: in your opinion is Floro the worst coach we ever had, if not who is the worst in your opinion.

My vote goes to Colin Miller.

Dale Mitchell.

 

[shermanator]

Here's an article on Floro's tenure by Terry Dunfield.

http://www.tsn.ca/inside-floro-s-tenure-with-the-canadian-men-s-team-1.567511

[Complete Homer]

2 hours ago, RJB said:

So, I'm to go there with Will Johnson: Is he a bad teammate?  He's repeatedly cited as a confusing and ridiculous omission, and so I wonder if Floro has a reason for that.  Perhaps he's a bit of a cancer, or just a very difficult player?  Perhaps these are the reasons, and perhaps they are good ones - if in fact his is the case.

Let's not forget, that it was Floro who recalled him after a significant absence from the team.  

Dale Mitchell.

 

Floro said that Johnson would have been called for the hex, which I think excludes the bad attitude theory.

I think he legitimately didn't call him because of fitness concerns. It's very debatable if that was the correct decision (especially since Johnson had gone 90 and 70 right before the roster announcement), but physiologically it is very different stamina issues that arise when coming back from exercise limiting injuries vs. simply reduced activity (Unattached players). The argument could be made that Floro didn't think he could do 90 in Honduras weather, and considering we completely withered in the second half, it might not have been a terrible prediction. 

I still disagree with not calling him, but I think it was a more defensible position than it has been portrayed as

[Guest]

On September 14, 2016 at 8:26 PM, nolbertos said:

Since Mont Vic yields extreme power in CONCACAF now, surely he can convince higher quality coaches to coach us.  Let's make a pro and con list of the coaches we believe should coach Canada, so far we have the following coaches we'd like

• Jorge Luis Pinto - Colombian - Took Costa Rica to WC QF 2014 and Honduras Olympic team to 2016 Olympic semi's
• Luis Suarez - Colombian - took Honduras to World Cup 2014 and Ecuador WC 2010
• Julio Valdes - Panamanian - took Panama to Gold Cup Final in 2013
• Hernan Gomez - Colombian, currently coach of Panama, coached Colombia and Ecuador to WC 2002, WC 2006
• Bob Bradley - USA - Took USA to WC 2010 and won Gold Cups
• Holger Osiek - why not throw his name, as he did OK with Canada - Won Gold Cup 2000, qualified Australia to WC 2014

 

So far that's a good candidate list to replace Benito Floro and son.  I hope the CSA isn't being a cheap ass and ask them to take Dasovic as assistants or something.

I don't think the coach of Panama would leave a hex team for a team not even in qualifying but other then that good list!

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Is it official that Floro Jr is gone too?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Is it official that Floro Jr is gone too?

Didn't you hear? He is the new head coach!

[Free kick]

9 hours ago, Ansem said:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/

Victor Montagliani interview at Sportsnet this morning

He said something at the very beginning that was saddenning to hear and that i had never heard from someone in the CSA.   He said:  "our goal was to reach the hex".

I recall when this forum started back in 2000 or so.  There were several repetitive themes that always came up. Bob Lennaduzzi'coaching,  Whether or not we played too much british style kick and chase,  west coast bias's in venue and player selections (old boys club) for the CMNT.  And there was one other one,  criticism of the CSA because they had set the bad too low for Cnd soccer. I use to think (at the time) that this one had become tiring and a bit too much of cliché.  

After 86, there was no doubting canada was going to be back. Not a doubt.  For WCQ 90 and 94, it was perhaps seen as a bit of misfortune and circumstances.  By WCQ 98, you could tell that we were no longer in the same league as Mexico and perhaps the US.  So in subsequent WCQ's the rallying theme and "goal was to qualify for the WC".

Now, its "let make it to the hex".  Never thought we'd be saying that.  But we can say officially It looks like now the bar has reached a new low. 

 

 

 

 

[BrennanFan]

Canadian "Options":

- Watson 

- Dasovic

- Dos Santos

- Miller

- Biello

- Yallop

- Gale

- Bent

- Carbajal

- Findlay

- Stalteri

[AvroArrow]

49 minutes ago, Free kick said:

He said something at the very beginning that was saddenning to hear and that i had never heard from someone in the CSA.   He said:  "our goal was to reach the hex".

I recall when this forum started back in 2000 or so.  There were several repetitive themes that always came up. Bob Lennaduzzi'coaching,  Whether or not we played too much british style kick and chase,  west coast bias's in venue and player selections (old boys club) for the CMNT.  And there was one other one,  criticism of the CSA because they had set the bad too low for Cnd soccer. I use to think (at the time) that this one had become tiring and a bit too much of cliché.  But now, i am not so sure about that. 

After 86, there was no doubting canada was going to be back. Not a doubt.  For WCQ 90 and 94, it was perhaps seen as a bit of misfortune and circumstances.  By WCQ 98, you could tell that we were no longer in the same league as Mexico and perhaps the US.  So in subsequent WCQ's the rallying theme and "goal was to qualify for the WC".

Now, its "let make it to the hex".  Never thought we'd be saying that.  Maybe it was a freudian slip on Montagliani's part, i dont know. It looks like now the bar has reached a new low. 

 

 

 

 

To be perfectly honest, I agree with his goal.  It may be a disappointing expectation but it is likely a realistic one.  They likely looked at the team we had and thought that the team had the quality to make the hex.  After that, the odds of being able to get more points then the US or Mexico was slim to none, which meant we'd be fighting for 1.5 spots with 3 other teams that all would likely have squads that were just as talented as us or better.  We would have needed a lot of luck to get through.

[Free kick]

15 minutes ago, AvroArrow said:

To be perfectly honest, I agree with his goal.  It may be a disappointing expectation but it is likely a realistic one.  They likely looked at the team we had and thought that the team had the quality to make the hex.  After that, the odds of being able to get more points then the US or Mexico was slim to none, which meant we'd be fighting for 1.5 spots with 3 other teams that all would likely have squads that were just as talented as us or better.  We would have needed a lot of luck to get through.

Thats true.  I am not at all disgreeing with the fact that canada just doesnt have the horses to go much further.  

I sort of edited my post a bit upon reflection. What i was doing was capturing a synopsis of where we were and where we are at.  To me its still signifant when the head of the CSA makes this unprecedanted acknowledgement. It also suggests that had Canada reached this hex, they might have kept Floro. 

 

[The Ref]

54 minutes ago, Free kick said:

He said something at the very beginning that was saddenning to hear and that i had never heard from someone in the CSA.   He said:  "our goal was to reach the hex".

I recall when this forum started back in 2000 or so.  There were several repetitive themes that always came up. Bob Lennaduzzi'coaching,  Whether or not we played too much british style kick and chase,  west coast bias's in venue and player selections (old boys club) for the CMNT.  And there was one other one,  criticism of the CSA because they had set the bad too low for Cnd soccer. I use to think (at the time) that this one had become tiring and a bit too much of cliché.  

After 86, there was no doubting canada was going to be back. Not a doubt.  For WCQ 90 and 94, it was perhaps seen as a bit of misfortune and circumstances.  By WCQ 98, you could tell that we were no longer in the same league as Mexico and perhaps the US.  So in subsequent WCQ's the rallying theme and "goal was to qualify for the WC".

Now, its "let make it to the hex".  Never thought we'd be saying that.  But we can say officially It looks like now the bar has reached a new low. 

 

We have 4 years hence to prepare and if the only goal from the CSA in this time frame is just to reach the hex, we are selling ourselves way too short.  What a silly thing for Montigliani to say.  I think it is him who needs a touch of reality.  We need a coach who firmly believes his goal is to do all he can to get us to the next W.C., not just make a group and be satisfy with that.  Montigliani wants to select the new coach by Committee!  Would like to know who are the members of such committee.

[Cheeta]

Re; Free Kick's post.

A LOT has changed in 30 years.  And I have to admit I was disappointed by some of those WCQ runs in the later '90s but I'm more cynical now.  Not because I'm wearing all these scars but because objectively I think we're still paying the price for that lost Pipe generation.  And it will continue to show on the playing field for a few more years yet I fear.  

Don't mean to single out Kevin Pipe, just think he and his tenure exemplifies the rot that had firmly set in at every level of footie governance in this country.

That we're still debating, and rather heatedly at that, whether MLS has benefited or inhibited the advancement of the game in this country says everything.  That, 10 years on, the question is even reasonably debated is a condemnation of MLS in Canada. 

Now way back when maybe for Pipe & Co. MLS looked like a means to an end.  You know, sort of a lesser of two evils.  Maintaining the status quo or adopting something, ANYTHING else.  Or maybe MLS was just a desperate scheme to secure funding for a Toronto stadium without any realistic long term thinking.  Don't know. 

But here we are.    

 

[Free kick]

I too used to think in 96 that canada had reached a new low.  That was after the first few games of the hex.  

Pipe fought for getting the stadium in TO and by extension the U20 WC and MLS.   Everything improved with the game in Canada in last 10-15 years.  Attendance at games, the competitions, the womens game, exposures for the game, knowledge of the game, and so on and so on.   The only exception is the Mens national teams at all levels.

[toontownman]

I felt an ill breeze and something weird in my stomach...

In all seriousness it is a hard decision it is not the exactly the same as hiring a manager at club level. Hiring a Canadian that knows how the system works, its faults, frustrations, player pool etc. can be a huge advantage. I feel however balanced against bigger more accomplished names it is a no brainer, if not simply for inspiration and motivation. 

I really feel it is a good time for exposure of soccer in this country we need the right person to be a figure head to inspire the nation. Ideally you want coming to play for your country to be a step up from club level in training and ability. Granted this can't always be possible, in the most unlikeliest of situations that we had a player at Barcelona, they probably wont come to a better coaching set up in Canada. However having a manager who commands respect and can inspire players is a huge motivation to keep pushing the players in our set and possibly be the key to luring players back into that pool that are wavering. 

I have seen it all to often at club level hiring for instance an English coach or the easy cheaper unambitious option rather than spending the money on either up and coming, forward thinking coaches or managers with proven pedigree . I certainly feel that way about Sam Allardyce, who shouldn't be near that England job and as a Newcastle fan have seen the lack of ambition since Sir Bobby Robson was disgustingly pushed out for what would turn out to be a string of cheap or safe, 'proper' managers coming in to ultimately take the club in circles at best. 

Now is the time as Victor talks big, to make a statement and get the right guy and spend the money necessary to ignite Canada's imagination.

[dyslexic nam]

Regarding the perceived lack of progress, I tend to view it a bit differently.  The relevant metric isn't whether or not we are better off now than in the past - for me this is an obvious affirmative, with MLS clubs and affiliated academies, as well as a fanbase that is both broader and deeper than it has been in years past.  But unfortunately the issue isn't whether or not we have progressed from years past, it is whether or not we are progressing at a faster rate than our regional competitors - and this is where we are failing to gain ground.  The US has benefited from MLS more than we have.  The Mexican league is effectively incubating some great talent, as do some of the lower level (and relatively cash-poor) leagues in other CONCACAF countries.  Thus we haven't overtaken the nations that historically have had the edge on us - despite the fact that we have made concrete, incremental gains here at home.

The real question is how we accelerate our improvement so that we can turn on the signal light, pull into the left hand lane, leave them behind.   That is where (I think) CPL would be the quantum step we are lacking.  A broad, supported development league that provides a platform for a whole swath of talented kids with currently limited options.  If DeVos and crew can also somehow solve the regional and grassroots issues limiting player development (in a country where footy will always play second fiddle to frozendisk), we will be on our way.  

We have made progress.  There is not a doubt in my mind that we are in a better place than in past cycles.  But our competition is always improving too, and at the moment we are failing to take the kind of bold steps required to pull along side them, flip them off, and drop the fuckin needle.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

21 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

Wasn't Floro getting 300k and was our highest paid manager yet? Are we in a position to almost double our offering?

I thought too he was getting 300 grand, but then somehow convinced myself that was too low. But it was the figure I had from the start, more or less.

[Unnamed Trialist]

13 hours ago, Free kick said:

He said something at the very beginning that was saddenning to hear and that i had never heard from someone in the CSA.   He said:  "our goal was to reach the hex".

---------------

Now, its "let make it to the hex".  Never thought we'd be saying that.  But we can say officially It looks like now the bar has reached a new low.

Thing is, if it is a bar, and the simile is from high jumping or pole vault, that is the right approach Vic is expressing. You start with the next height and try to get over it. Then raise the bar.

Simeone calls it "partido a partido", game to game. 

Famously Sergi Bubka was eliminated from the Olympics in 2000  because he started by setting the bar too high. And he was world record holder in pole vault at the time. 

Anyways, by your logic, the next time we do make the WC our goal will have been reached and we can lay back and get bombed in the group stage. Or do you think that, having gotten there, we might want to raise the bar once again? Like winning the first game or getting into knock-out rounds? Or is it is just a permanently fixed height, all or nothing and nothing more either?

Just asking, since, after all, someone might think that just making the WC is a lowering of the bar. And if you don't think that, then you have to admit the general principle, Free Kick: set the bar at the height that is reasonable, make it, then raise it again. And successively.

And right now the HEX is that height, the next height. Seems clear enough to me.

[Unnamed Trialist]

13 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

Canadian "Options":

- Watson 

- Dasovic

- Dos Santos

- Miller

- Biello

- Yallop

- Gale

- Bent

- Carbajal

- Findlay

- Stalteri

Of all those, right now, I would only take one, for me the bar minimum but just barely. Anyone want to guess who it is?

[Complete Homer]

19 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I thought too he was getting 300 grand, but then somehow convinced myself that was too low. But it was the figure I had from the start, more or less.

It's possible that 300k was just his base salary. When researching Bradley's salary with USA, it was about 400k base + 400k in potential bonuses

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

It's possible that 300k was just his base salary. When researching Bradley's salary with USA, it was about 400k base + 400k in potential bonuses

Based on results, I would hope that Floro didn't receive any performance bonuses...

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Phone glitch

 

5 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Based on results, I would hope that Floro didn't receive any performance bonuses...

100k per cap tied player

[dyslexic nam]

In jest, I know, but it would be really interesting to know how much of a role he did play in those recruitments (and I mean stuff that would not have otherwise happened with a different Canada-calibre coach).  I think you can make a pretty decent argument either way, but at this point it is all pure speculation.