WCQ - Canada vs. Mexico Mar. 25th, 2016 Pre-Game Thread

[amanfromvancouver]

2 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said:

Are you ever going to respond to the critique (by myself and others) that you are lumping everyone here together? I don't believe that insults, etc should be part of the way of doing business in any piece of public discourse, but if you went back through the various discussions you would find that there are about 10 people who have said insulting things to you and about 1000 who haven't. By continuing to basically say 'you people' you are doing the same thing that you're criticize others for - insulting people. 

Additionally, you have been critiqued for cherry-picking certain things from people's posts while leaving others and I have not seen you respond to this critique either.

when members of your organization conduct certain behaviors to bully people away; you are implying that I should not consider that a "voyageurs thing"?

I tried to join, I got rejected.  I don't see how I can not lump this all into one group.

 

[Ivanovski94]

2 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

when members of your organization conduct certain behaviors to bully people away; you are implying that I should not consider that a "voyageurs thing"?

I tried to join, I got rejected.  I don't see how I can not lump this all into one group.

 

I don't know your age but man just let it go, say your peace and relax. It's the internet, you are investing all this mental energy into a group you don't like or believe in, if that's the case say it and then do yourself a favour and find a more "positive" and "inclusive" environment, continually dipping into " this negative" space will not garner any positive outcome from any of the parties involved.

[El Hombre]

10 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

when members of your organization conduct certain behaviors to bully people away; you are implying that I should not consider that a "voyageurs thing"?

I tried to join, I got rejected.  I don't see how I can not lump this all into one group.

 

Wait a minute...you can join this thing?  Goddamnit, I've been around since 2004, why haven't I been allowed to join?  What the fuck?!?

[Coramoor]

16 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

Here we go... trying to discredit me .......

I don't want to discredit you, aside from your comments in the ticket thread. I think you're a good contributor to this board. But you went so far off the reservation on that one, all I did was give people information, they can judge for themselves how they feel about your comments.

[king1010]

2 hours ago, amanfromvancouver said:

Wow

so you get likes for this.  I made these comments (albeit before the game as a prediction), and got called names, ignorant, bullied, and people tried to  run me off the forum. This just furthers my theory that you all love each other but trash anyone from the outside no matter what. 

Not one of those disgraceful bullies apologized either.

I will continue to discuss this; this is our supporters group endorsed by the CSA.  There is no room for bullying or discrimination and I will continue to point it out.  I have no interest in affiliating with this.

did you get bullied growing up?

maybe you should start a no bullying supporters group. the sport is expanding. there is room for 2 canada soccer supporters groups

[rob.notenboom]

6 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

when members of your organization conduct certain behaviors to bully people away; you are implying that I should not consider that a "voyageurs thing"?

I tried to join, I got rejected.  I don't see how I can not lump this all into one group.

 

I'm sure certain Voyageurs also pick their noses. But I would not say that picking noses is a 'Voyageur thing'.

It's unfortunate, but there simply seems to be so much about the Vs that you just don't understand. First off, the forum is not the Vs. Lots of people on the forum don't even go to games. TONS of people who go to the games NEVER go on the forum. So to confuse this (the forum) with the 'Voyageurs Organization' is a critical error. 

This is simply a mostly unmoderated communication tool. Yes it is the Voyageurs Forum, so most of the people on here would consider themselves Voyageurs, but some don't. 

As for 'organization' there really isn't one. There is mostly one guy, with a few significant others, who through blood, sweat, and tears are trying to advance soccer supporter culture in Canada and have given 1000s of hours (and also 1000s of dollars) to this cause. 

Additionally, the only qualification for being a Voyageur is that you think you are. 

Finally and in light of these things I've mentioned, if you don't understand that there's a MASSIVE difference between a few people saying mean things to you, and the idea that ALL the people in the group are insulting bullies, then perhaps I'm wasting my time. But in that case, you should revisit some of your earlier posts where you discussed discrimination and prejudice and ponder whether or not you aren't equally guilty. 

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, amanfromvancouver said:

let me make some points... first, you are disrespecting me clearly here.

 

Respect is earned and you have very little credit in the bank.

[Complete Homer]

2 hours ago, amanfromvancouver said:

Wow

so you get likes for this.  I made these comments (albeit before the game as a prediction), and got called names, ignorant, bullied, and people tried to  run me off the forum. This just furthers my theory that you all love each other but trash anyone from the outside no matter what. 

Not one of those disgraceful bullies apologized either.

I will continue to discuss this; this is our supporters group endorsed by the CSA.  There is no room for bullying or discrimination and I will continue to point it out.  I have no interest in affiliating with this.

As much as my "do not get involved meter" is going off, I just wanted to comment. 

I don't know what your particular grievance is, but in the short time since I joined the forum I have not once felt bullied as an "outsider." There's been a bit of name-calling around a clear nutcase, but it's all been relatively tame. 

Your first step into a community can't be to call them out, what do you expect to happen? Sit back, relax, and enjoy talking about our little soccer program. Taking it too seriously is entirely too much effort to be worth it. 

[amanfromvancouver]

22 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

 

Your first step into a community can't be to call them out, what do you expect to happen? Sit back, relax, and enjoy talking about our little soccer program. Taking it too seriously is entirely too much effort to be worth it. 

Guess what...

After my initial crusade over ticket manipulation, I said I made peace with it. I moved on from it.  I even made a post saying I moved on from it.

I then went to talk about normal soccer stuff... and guess what, the bullying continued.........  so blaming it on my initial entry is unreasonable.

what was the final straw was the Voyageurs calling me ignorant when I said my research indicated a Canadian majority for the match.  When it turned out I was correct, not one person apologized for calling me ignorant.  I can't be quiet when that kind of discrimination happening.

 

[king1010]

Holy shit man. Stop looking for apologies. This sounds like a 5 year old tatle taling to his mom because another kid called him a mean name. 

Is this seriously happening. This is the internet. Move on. Can we talk soccer. 

Sorry someone hurt your feelings. See? SORRY. 

Also how does not apologizing = discrimination. You're really grasping at straws man. 

O by the way. Page 23 of this thread I apologized on behalf of the V's to you. So you're lying. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

17 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

when I said my research indicated a Canadian majority for the match.

1) About ↑ . You were right.

2) Some people on the forum have been a dick to you.

3) What Rob said about 1 hour ago. ↑↑↑ Read it. That's what most of us likely think. You seem to care about the team and travel to games (and post on this forum!). Might you be aVoyageurfromVancouver?

[dyslexic nam]

Just lol.

[amanfromvancouver]

48 minutes ago, king1010 said:

Holy shit man. Stop looking for apologies.

Why?

Is this place so juvenile that guys get their insecurities into over drive at the mere thought of apologizing to someone; or "manning up" and doing the right thing and admitting something?

Freedom of speech, all for it. There is not freedom from consequences.  Some people here think it is ok to call a new person vile names.  This is bully mentality; and they turtle when the victim fights back.

Denying access to the Voyageurs is not the way to build Canadian soccer support. I really think you all have lost your way; you are looking for clones under the guise of "unified efforts" and run this like some fascist state that looks to discredit and erase anyone who stands out.  "Unified efforts" that lock people out based on views, skin color, clothing they wear, physical appearance.

What If I were a fellow that had Mexican parents; however, I was born in Vancouver.  I am Canadian, love Canada, and have 100% commitment to Canada (being born here after all).  I show up at the match and walk into the Voyageurs section only to be escorted out because I "look mexican".. that is trump/christianity type of thinking.

[BuzzAndSting]

29 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

Why?

Is this place so juvenile that guys get their insecurities into over drive at the mere thought of apologizing to someone; or "manning up" and doing the right thing and admitting something?

Freedom of speech, all for it. There is not freedom from consequences.  Some people here think it is ok to call a new person vile names.  This is bully mentality; and they turtle when the victim fights back.

Denying access to the Voyageurs is not the way to build Canadian soccer support. I really think you all have lost your way; you are looking for clones under the guise of "unified efforts" and run this like some fascist state that looks to discredit and erase anyone who stands out.  "Unified efforts" that lock people out based on views, skin color, clothing they wear, physical appearance.

What If I were a fellow that had Mexican parents; however, I was born in Vancouver.  I am Canadian, love Canada, and have 100% commitment to Canada (being born here after all).  I show up at the match and walk into the Voyageurs section only to be escorted out because I "look mexican".. that is trump/christianity type of thinking.

Did that happen? I saw Mexican supporters in 201 on Friday and no one asked them to leave.

[Bison44]

Mr Vancouver, what are you talking about?  You continually say "you all" etc.  Who are you talking about? What maybe 5-10 guys said mean things to you? Why are you painting everyone with the same brush? If you have problems with 5-10 guys, take it up with them and dont smear everyone on the board.  And you are totally losing any kind of sympathy when you start throwing around terms like fascism, discrimination, "trump/christianity" thinking.  This isn't the civil rights movement, its some guys talking about soccer games and soccer players.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, amanfromvancouver said:

What If I were a fellow that had Mexican parents; however, I was born in Vancouver.  I am Canadian, love Canada, and have 100% commitment to Canada (being born here after all).  I show up at the match and walk into the Voyageurs section only to be escorted out because I "look mexican".. that is trump/christianity type of thinking.

If you got escorted out it wouldn't be because you look Mexican.... It would be because you are wearing Mexican gear....

[rob.notenboom]

1 minute ago, canta15 said:

If you got escorted out it wouldn't be because you look Mexican.... It would be because you are wearing Mexican gear....

If you got escorted out it would likely be none of the above. The only person that I've ever seen get escorted out was Tuscan, and that was for throwing a beer in the air. 

To suggest someone would get escorted out of the supporters section for looking Mexican is to confirm that you really don't understand the nature of a Voyageurs supporters section. 

[amanfromvancouver]

16 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Mr Vancouver, what are you talking about?  You continually say "you all" etc.  Who are you talking about? What maybe 5-10 guys said mean things to you? Why are you painting everyone with the same brush? If you have problems with 5-10 guys, take it up with them and dont smear everyone on the board.  And you are totally losing any kind of sympathy when you start throwing around terms like fascism, discrimination, "trump/christianity" thinking.  This isn't the civil rights movement, its some guys talking about soccer games and soccer players.  

I say "you all", because this is the official Voyageurs forum and so everyone here speaks for the group.  I don't like it when organized groups think they can distance themselves from what members say. A group is what it's members make it.  So,when I group of members tell me to  go away because I am different, or tell me i can not join the Voyageurs, or tell me i am ignorant; that is the group talking.

I have yet to get one member of this forum supporting my stance or understanding the bullying here.  So, why would I think any differently about "you all".

Let me be clear......

I , like many, go back to the early 80's in supporting the national team.  I have been emotionally invested in the program for a long time.  I have always seen the Voyageurs banners at games in Vancouver (since you were formed).  After the recent Honduras game, I decided.... you know, perhaps it is time I get involved with these people.

I came to the forum and was horrified at the viewpoints on ticketing and stadium availability. I made my points, and I made peace with it once the upper bowl was opened.  After that, I decided to participate in regular discussions.  I got mocked, made fun of, and finally pushed over the edge when called ignorant for saying I felt there would be a majority of Canadian fans in the stands at the Mexico game (which there were).

I speak out, and not one person has even listened other than to argue.  This tells me that the entire organization feels this way, does not like outsiders, and in efforts to provide "uniform support" wants clones and people who will toe the line with leadership's micromanaged version of supporting.

[jpg75]

56 minutes ago, canta15 said:

If you got escorted out it wouldn't be because you look Mexican.... It would be because you are wearing Mexican gear....

 

1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Did that happen? I saw Mexican supporters in 201 on Friday and no one asked them to leave.

I think he was making a hypothetical case to show how fascist we are. Little does he know there are "Mexican looking" V's, so his holier than thou bullshit analogy is not even worth wiping your ass with.

[jpg75]

55 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

I say "you all", because this is the official Voyageurs forum and so everyone here speaks for the group.  I don't like it when organized groups think they can distance themselves from what members say. A group is what it's members make it.  So,when I group of members tell me to  go away because I am different, or tell me i can not join the Voyageurs, or tell me i am ignorant; that is the group talking.

I have yet to get one member of this forum supporting my stance or understanding the bullying here.  So, why would I think any differently about "you all".

Let me be clear......

I , like many, go back to the early 80's in supporting the national team.  I have been emotionally invested in the program for a long time.  I have always seen the Voyageurs banners at games in Vancouver (since you were formed).  After the recent Honduras game, I decided.... you know, perhaps it is time I get involved with these people.

I came to the forum and was horrified at the viewpoints on ticketing and stadium availability. I made my points, and I made peace with it once the upper bowl was opened.  After that, I decided to participate in regular discussions.  I got mocked, made fun of, and finally pushed over the edge when called ignorant for saying I felt there would be a majority of Canadian fans in the stands at the Mexico game (which there were).

I speak out, and not one person has even listened other than to argue.  This tells me that the entire organization feels this way, does not like outsiders, and in efforts to provide "uniform support" wants clones and people who will toe the line with leadership's micromanaged version of supporting.

[amanfromvancouver]

And here we go again.....

 

jpg75, are you part of the leadership?

[fuzzx]

Hey, very infrequent poster chiming in.

I've been hanging around for about 5 years now, in that entire time I couldn't tell you anything about "leadership"

I mean, a few people take responsibility for some stuff, but otherwise it's pretty anarchic.

 

Anyways, in terms of ticketing, I think the CSA's plan was clear from the start. It's very similar to how the Impact manage tickets at the BigO.

They start with the lower bowl, being very conservative and not prominsing any increase in tickets. Then, if demand is there, they open up, bit by bit, but never promising more sections till the ticket sales show that it'll sell. 

The CSA further did what federations and teams all over the world do and keep an eye on who is purchasing tickets, using various means to limit sales to the opposition. You see it for Hockey playoffs all the time, to give one example.

The president stated explicitly that if it looked like most of the demand seemed to be Mexican support, he would NOT open up more section. But they had evidence that it was the opposite, so they did. Pretty simple.

[RS]

3 hours ago, amanfromvancouver said:

Why?

Is this place so juvenile that guys get their insecurities into over drive at the mere thought of apologizing to someone; or "manning up" and doing the right thing and admitting something?

Freedom of speech, all for it. There is not freedom from consequences.  Some people here think it is ok to call a new person vile names.  This is bully mentality; and they turtle when the victim fights back.

Denying access to the Voyageurs is not the way to build Canadian soccer support. I really think you all have lost your way; you are looking for clones under the guise of "unified efforts" and run this like some fascist state that looks to discredit and erase anyone who stands out.  "Unified efforts" that lock people out based on views, skin color, clothing they wear, physical appearance.

What If I were a fellow that had Mexican parents; however, I was born in Vancouver.  I am Canadian, love Canada, and have 100% commitment to Canada (being born here after all).  I show up at the match and walk into the Voyageurs section only to be escorted out because I "look mexican".. that is trump/christianity type of thinking.

These are very serious accusations you're throwing around. Do you have any real world evidence to back them up, or are you simply employing a slippery slope, Leroux-style argument to try to win points on the Internet?

[Grizzly]

With all the fun and enjoyment that Robert and A Man From Vancouver have been giving us, no one has noticed that one of the classic Voyageur trolls made a reappearance after several years, the one and only DoyleG.

[amanfromvancouver]

9 minutes ago, RS said:

These are very serious accusations you're throwing around. Do you have any real world evidence to back them up, or are you simply employing a slippery slope, Leroux-style argument to try to win points on the Internet?

They are not accusations; they are my opinions based on my observations of this forum as well as hypothetical discussion points.

It's pretty clear I won't win any points, so you can be assured this is not my reason.  I stand up to bullies and get all fired up about it.  That is about it.