WCQ - Canada vs. Mexico Mar. 25th, 2016 Pre-Game Thread

[Joe MacCarthy]

Oops, I sit corrected.

[BuzzAndSting]

5 hours ago, amanfromvancouver said:

In addition to speaking out against the Voyageurs trying to manipulate a portion of a public facility, I was also speaking out against people trying to lobby for the entire stadium to be controlled, blocked off, etc.... and also giving an opinion that a fully open stadium would turn up with a majority of Canadian fans. 

The point is not whether I am right or wrong, it is the abuse you guys throw at someone who has a different view (or views in this case).  Even if I am wrong (which I wasn't) that didn't deserve online bullying ,swarming, and revolting comments.  People can agree and disagree in a civil manner.

You guys fear opinions and attack until the person leaves.

And your response is exactly the trash from the Voyageurs I am talking about.  An absolutely disgraceful group here and your leadership should be ashamed at how you treat people. 

PS- while I never give into bullies; it is clear the Voyageurs are not a place to discuss or debate the game we love in a civil and honest fashion.  People who do not fit the general idea are mocked, insulted, called names, and generally told to go the fuck away.  Being called ignorant simply for suggesting that my research led me to believe there would be a majority of Canadian fans at BC Place last night took the cake.  I am better than that, and I call on any Voyageurs who are better than that to re consider their affiliation with this group.  For me, I will not continue this affiliation even through a message forum.  An embarassment to supporters culture in Canada, and I hope the CSA reconsiders their endorsement.

BC Place may be a public facility but when it is leased to organization like the CSA to hold an event the lease holder is allowed to control a certain set of parameters of how the event runs.

Has it occored to you that the attendance at BC Place and the make up of it may have been because of the CSA's tactics? By the way I would say it was 60-40 Canada at best, definitely not an overwhelming majority.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

BC Place may be a public facility but when it is leased to organization like the CSA to hold an event the lease holder is allowed to control a certain set of parameters of how the event runs.

Has it occored to you that the attendance at BC Place and the make up of it may have been because of the CSA's tactics? By the way I would say it was 60-40 Canada at best, definitely not an overwhelming majority.

BEIN sports said it was 70 : 30 but then again i was not there to see it for myself.

[BuzzAndSting]

1 hour ago, canta15 said:

BEIN sports said it was 70 : 30 but then again i was not there to see it for myself.

70 is not accurate in my opinion. I could see if the BeIN commentators just watched video from a studio they might think that because the one corner with the Mexican fans in the lower bowl was pretty big but the rest of the stadium seemed to be very Canadian with small spatterings of green. Maybe it was just my red coloured glasses though.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

70 is not accurate in my opinion. I could see if the BeIN commentators just watched video from a studio they might think that because the one corner with the Mexican fans in the lower bowl was pretty big but the rest of the stadium seemed to be very Canadian with small spatterings of green. Maybe it was just my red coloured glasses though.

I thought u said you it was 60 40 at best?

[BuzzAndSting]

21 minutes ago, canta15 said:

I thought u said you it was 60 40 at best?

I did? Was I not clear? 

In terms of the lower bowl from the TV angles I saw it's possibly to assume the rest of the stadium had a similar make up but the camera side and the upper deck was definitely mostly Canadians.

[nolbertos]

To me the attendance looked either 55-45 pro-Mexican or 60-40 for the Canadian sides.  A couple of friends that went to the game noticed alot of Mexican spattered throughout the stadium.  Could even hear Mexicans chanting "Mejico, Mejico" througout the stadium.  But by then it was 3-0.  Could even hear the Mexican Ole's on TV.  I think it was a good crowd that night.  I think 70-80% of the average Canuck fans knew Canada was no match for Mexico, but it was all for thr atmosphere.  Hopefullu we turned some Mexican fans into Whitecaps fan as kudos to thr Southsiders and Curva for the flares and marching across Robson.

[red card]

It could have been 80-20 in favour of Canadians but we would still hear ole's because the average Mexican watches the match with such intense passion from the grandmother to the 14 year old girl vs the average Canadian who is quite passive in watching sports.

Even in hockey, we barely have any chants beyond Go Canada Go let alone singing or marches to the arena for Team Canada games. Very few flags are flown. Other than wearing Team Canada jerseys, very few go all out like the Mexicans do or the Dutch or now even the Americans (for US women) in dressing up in a fun and wacky manner that represents their culture.  

Anyway, from various sources from twitter to tv to articles, the general consensus was 70/30 in favour of Canada with some saying 60/40 or 50/50.

[Cheeta]

7 hours ago, nolbertos said:

To me the attendance looked either 55-45 pro-Mexican or 60-40 for the Canadian sides.  A couple of friends that went to the game noticed alot of Mexican spattered throughout the stadium.  Could even hear Mexicans chanting "Mejico, Mejico" througout the stadium.  But by then it was 3-0.  Could even hear the Mexican Ole's on TV.  I think it was a good crowd that night.  I think 70-80% of the average Canuck fans knew Canada was no match for Mexico, but it was all for thr atmosphere.  Hopefullu we turned some Mexican fans into Whitecaps fan as kudos to thr Southsiders and Curva for the flares and marching across Robson.

 

15,000 Mexican supporters is a lot.  40,000 Canada supporters is a lot more.

It's understandable that different people take away different impressions from their experience but to my eye we easily had them by to 2-1 and more.  A lot more. 

And the reason for that has a lot to do with some of the hard working chaps around here (the usual suspects) and locally with the Whitecaps supporter groups.  God bless them every one.

Maybe 5 years from now that sort of ratio in Vancouver would be an embarrassment but on Friday what happened on the field wasn't what happened in the grandstands.  We won that battle hands down.

 

[Gian-Luca]

On 2016-03-26 at 4:32 PM, masster said:

What a prophetic post. He didn't destroy th opposition, but he sure took care of that streaker.

Yeah, I wish I had correctly predicted a victory for Canada too! In making that post I was thinking of this clip I posted on youtube years ago:

 

[rob.notenboom]

From our vantage point in the Supporters Section, you could clearly see how much solidly Mexican area there was and how much scattered Mexican attendance there was. Given that the lower bowl holds roughly 25,000, the Solidly Mexican support area took up much less than one half of one side (around 5000 maybe?). The upper bowl was solidly Canadian except for the Mexican support section so less than 5000. Add in a scattering throughout the stadium and you're likely looking at 10,000 Mexico fans and 45,000 Canada fans. It was nowhere near the apocalyptic scenarios people were worried about. 

Yes they were loud, mostly when Mexico went on a run or scored. However, I could hear very little organized from them (admittedly difficult from where I was). But as for crowd composition, this can't be seen as anything but a huge success, and any attempt to paint it as worse than it was is revisionism. 

[barca99]

I would put it at 70-30 being a fair number which is fantastic for Canadian soccer. As for the Mexicans being louder, I was sitting right next to them and the only thing I heard was the occasional "Mexico, Mexico" chants and the puto on goal kicks. Obviously they had much more to cheer about throughout the game, but I don't see it in any way of the Mexicans coming in and taking over, like has been the norm in past years. Great show by all the V's who worked their arses off!

[squizz1402635577]

It's tough for anyone to estimate the crowd breakdown with any reasonable degree of certainty, but just to add my voice to the chorus, from my vantage point in the press box, my impression was that it was about 70/30 Canadian fans.

But whether it was 70% or 75% or 60% or whatever, what's indisputable is that a men's national team sold out BC Place stadium with a solid majority of pro-Canadian supporters, which is fantastic.

[amanfromvancouver]

On 3/26/2016 at 1:14 PM, jpg75 said:

 

[amanfromvancouver]

3 hours ago, squizz1402635577 said:

It's tough for anyone to estimate the crowd breakdown with any reasonable degree of certainty, but just to add my voice to the chorus, from my vantage point in the press box, my impression was that it was about 70/30 Canadian fans.

But whether it was 70% or 75% or 60% or whatever, what's indisputable is that a men's national team sold out BC Place stadium with a solid majority of pro-Canadian supporters, which is fantastic.

Wow

so you get likes for this.  I made these comments (albeit before the game as a prediction), and got called names, ignorant, bullied, and people tried to  run me off the forum. This just furthers my theory that you all love each other but trash anyone from the outside no matter what. 

Not one of those disgraceful bullies apologized either.

I will continue to discuss this; this is our supporters group endorsed by the CSA.  There is no room for bullying or discrimination and I will continue to point it out.  I have no interest in affiliating with this.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

Wow

so you get likes for this.  I made these comments (albeit before the game as a prediction), and got called names, ignorant, bullied, and people tried to  run me off the forum. This just furthers my theory that you all love each other but trash anyone from the outside no matter what. 

Not one of those disgraceful bullies apologized either.

I will continue to discuss this; this is our supporters group endorsed by the CSA.  There is no room for bullying or discrimination and I will continue to point it out.  I have no interest in affiliating with this.

Can you just stick to your word for once and leave?

[amanfromvancouver]

Just now, canta15 said:

Can you just stick to your word for once and leave?

why? So you all can continue to bully people?

[SthMelbRed]

32 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

why? So you all can continue to bully people?

Buddy, quit carrying on like you're some kind of Swamy who successfully predicted a pro-Canada crowd at the match. The make-up of the crowd was a consequence of a lot of people putting in a lot of effort to make it happen. It had nothing to do with your idea to open up ticket sales for the entire stadium without any restrictions. The measured approach that was taken was the correct one and it produced the desired results. Your idea was stupid and you were rightfully told that. 

If you don't want to be called a retard, stop making retarded statements on an Internet message board. However, if you insist on doing that, don't grovel around for an apology that you're never going to get. 

[squizz1402635577]

4 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

If you don't want to be called a retard, stop making retarded statements on an Internet message board. However, if you insist on doing that, don't grovel around for an apology that you're never going to get. 

Come on, really? Insults from Grade 3? This is hardly the way to dislodge his belief that he's being bullied.

[amanfromvancouver]

10 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Buddy, quit carrying on like you're some kind of Swamy who successfully predicted a pro-Canada crowd at the match. The make-up of the crowd was a consequence of a lot of people putting in a lot of effort to make it happen. It had nothing to do with your idea to open up ticket sales for the entire stadium without any restrictions. The measured approach that was taken was the correct one and it produced the desired results. Your idea was stupid and you were rightfully told that. 

If you don't want to be called a retard, stop making retarded statements on an Internet message board. However, if you insist on doing that, don't grovel around for an apology that you're never going to get. 

let me make some points... first, you are disrespecting me clearly here.

I never asked to be a predictor...... the fact I was right is not the point... I could have very well been wrong.. who the fuck cares... MY POINT was, when I MADE a prediction, I got bullied, called names, and pushed aside.  If I were a Voyageur, I would have been respected, not called ignorant or any other slurs

The "measured" approach was not Voygeurs policy.  Your group wanted to keep the entire upper deck closed, and not sell one ticket, because there seems to be PTSD from past MNT games being outnumbered.  The CSA (rightfully so), did not follow your wishes and opened the upper deck.  It worked, and voila.

And i was called bad names AFTER the upper deck was opened when I said it would be majority Canadian fans......  that had nothing to do with the prior policies

You guys are just all blindly defending one another like a little clique, afraid to talk to anyone who doesn't follow your general consensus and call everyone stupid , ignorant, and other SLURS.

What an organization you have here

 

[nolbertos]

15 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

let me make some points... first, you are disrespecting me clearly here.

I never asked to be a predictor...... the fact I was right is not the point... I could have very well been wrong.. who the fuck cares... MY POINT was, when I MADE a prediction, I got bullied, called names, and pushed aside.  If I were a Voyageur, I would have been respected, not called ignorant or any other slurs

The "measured" approach was not Voygeurs policy.  Your group wanted to keep the entire upper deck closed, and not sell one ticket, because there seems to be PTSD from past MNT games being outnumbered.  The CSA (rightfully so), did not follow your wishes and opened the upper deck.  It worked, and voila.

And i was called bad names AFTER the upper deck was opened when I said it would be majority Canadian fans......  that had nothing to do with the prior policies

You guys are just all blindly defending one another like a little clique, afraid to talk to anyone who doesn't follow your general consensus and call everyone stupid , ignorant, and other SLURS.

What an organization you have here

 

I think you're taking this waaaaayyyy too persona.  This is an Internet forum where anything goes, to a degree of moderation.  I've collided many times in the past with the Voyageurs on past WCQ's so don't make yourself like your the only voice of criticism and reason.  If you come to post here, then abide by their rules.  If not, then form your own forum.  The forum can be uptight, but it's because of constant disappointment that have jaded people.  I think since this forum was created in the late 90's, we only got to celebrate Canada's gold cup run.  Since then the CMNT has been through downs, until now seems it's slowly getting better.

[amanfromvancouver]

6 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

I think you're taking this waaaaayyyy too persona.  This is an Internet forum where anything goes, to a degree of moderation.  I've collided many times in the past with the Voyageurs on past WCQ's so don't make yourself like your the only voice of criticism and reason.  If you come to post here, then abide by their rules.  If not, then form your own forum.  The forum can be uptight, but it's because of constant disappointment that have jaded people.  I think since this forum was created in the late 90's, we only got to celebrate Canada's gold cup run.  Since then the CMNT has been through downs, until now seems it's slowly getting better.

Hello

Disagreeing is no problem.  I am not railing against that. I am railing against bullying (which is different), that comes in the form of name calling and trying to shame someone to leave.

Saying YOU ARE WRONG, and this is why....  is reasonable discussion.  Saying "You are ignorant" and "leave the forum" is not reasonable, it is bullying

Someone has to see the difference here.

 

PS - you made a post in response to my belief that we would have majority Canadian fans at the game... you disagreed with me and you felt it would be mostly Mexican.  You said why.  You never called me a bad name (from what I recall) or told me to fuck off.  So, this is an example of disagreeing without bullying.

 

[Coramoor]

18 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

let me make some points... first, you are disrespecting me clearly here.

I never asked to be a predictor...... the fact I was right is not the point... I could have very well been wrong.. who the fuck cares... MY POINT was, when I MADE a prediction, I got bullied, called names, and pushed aside.  If I were a Voyageur, I would have been respected, not called ignorant or any other slurs

The "measured" approach was not Voygeurs policy.  Your group wanted to keep the entire upper deck closed, and not sell one ticket, because there seems to be PTSD from past MNT games being outnumbered.  The CSA (rightfully so), did not follow your wishes and opened the upper deck.  It worked, and voila.

And i was called bad names AFTER the upper deck was opened when I said it would be majority Canadian fans......  that had nothing to do with the prior policies

You guys are just all blindly defending one another like a little clique, afraid to talk to anyone who doesn't follow your general consensus and call everyone stupid , ignorant, and other SLURS.

What an organization you have here

 

I don't really give a shit about this fight, but in the matter of fairness to other posters, that's no where near what you were saying or claiming at the time. People can go and read page 6 and 5 of his activity history to see his arguments. Lots of moral grandstanding, calling shit potentially illegal, acting as if you can engage and build a Canadian soccer audience without ensuring that at least a decent majority of the fans are Canadians so everyone can learn and grow with the sport together, instead of feeling like you're the minority in your own building.

However that's not the most egregious part, the most egregious part is how the conversation started. Read here if you're interested in the history and didn't see this at the time 

 

[amanfromvancouver]

Here we go... trying to discredit me .......

[rob.notenboom]

23 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

Your group wanted to keep the entire upper deck closed,

You guys are just all blindly defending one another

What an organization you have here

 

Are you ever going to respond to the critique (by myself and others) that you are lumping everyone here together? I don't believe that insults, etc should be part of the way of doing business in any piece of public discourse, but if you went back through the various discussions you would find that there are about 10 people who have said insulting things to you and about 1000 who haven't. By continuing to basically say 'you people' you are doing the same thing that you're criticize others for - insulting people. 

Additionally, you have been critiqued for cherry-picking certain things from people's posts while leaving others and I have not seen you respond to this critique either.