Canadian Premier League

[CDNFootballer]

19 minutes ago, PJSweet said:

Can we have a confirmation if whether the new CSA-MLS player deal announced today is an attempt to squash #CanPL before it begins? Please we need clarification. So many people on Twitter are now alleging that this is now the case without backing it up with substantiated facts.

 

Seems the deal may give MLS more control and tie players into their league  :

We were underwhelmed, if that’s a word: Canada Soccer/MLS strike a domestic-player deal

http://the11.ca/we-were-underwhelmed-if-thats-a-word-canada-soccermls-strike-a-domestic-player-deal/

 

"And will teams in the coming Canadian Premier League get the Approved Youth Club status? If not, they would be at a severe disadvantage when it comes to bringing in young talent, especially if they choose to invest in academies. This enforces a very strict MLS/USL route for players. And, with the Whitecaps having so many academies and affiliates coast-to-coast, for now they have a massive advantage over TFC and the Impact.

But, even if the player is with an Approved Youth Club, he knows he pooches his domestic status if he chooses to try Europe, or if he signs for a team not in MLS or USL. There is now a clear barrier to a player dipping his foot in waters outside of North America or the MLS pyramid, for that matter.

What really troubles me, not as a soccer fan, but as a Canadian, is that the domestic-status deal ties a player to a decision he makes before his 16th birthday, let alone his 18th birthday, which is the age of majority. If we’re OK with kids allowing kids to be forced to make life-changing career decisions before they turn 16, let alone 18, what the hell is wrong with us?

If anything, this deal shows us more and more why we need a Canadian Premier League, where Canadian clubs form their own destinies free of foreign regulations."

[baulderdash77]

Yikes that's really not a great deal.  Players have to be in a a TFC or MLS approved academy before they turn 16 AND sign USL/MLS deals as their first contract.  That's a very defensive and anti-CPL stance.  

[PJSweet]

2 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

Yikes that's really not a great deal.  Players have to be in a a TFC or MLS approved academy before they turn 16 AND sign USL/MLS deals as their first contract.  That's a very defensive and anti-CPL stance.  

Why would the CSA sign into such a deal if it's going to hurt the CanPL and Canadian interest. I'm now shaking my head.

[Gopherbashi]

12 hours ago, PJSweet said:

Why would the CSA sign into such a deal if it's going to hurt the CanPL and Canadian interest. I'm now shaking my head.

The sign-first-with-MLS component of this is what makes this sound like such a horrible deal, and if this is the best deal that Montagliani can pull off with MLS, I really wonder how he's going to make good deals for CPL.

EDIT: Probably overly-harsh - this might have been a concession he made in order to get the "approved youth clubs" in there, which seems like a good thing.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

22 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

The sign-first-with-MLS component of this is what makes this sound like such a horrible deal, and if this is the best deal that Montagliani can pull off with MLS, I really wonder how he's going to make good deals for CPL.

I think the problem right now is that he doesn't really have any leverage right now.  This is what makes CPL even more important.  It's not really Monty's fault if he isn't coming to the table with enough leverage to do more than this, it just is what it is.  

If CPL already was a stable product I suspect it would have been a much more favourable deal.

[nolbertos]

I'm not happy with the result either .  Was hoping more that Garber would do more.  But this is the first step.  This rule isn't written in stone.  MLS constantly changes its rules to its benefit.  Maybe if the players through the academies start to pay dividend and excel then Garber will open up the rule book further to include all academies.  You can either see this as a way of MLS protecting its interests, or MLS wanting to encourage more Canadian players in their academies.  I honestly expect CPL players to be sold to MLS as internationals as the CPL should be in the business of protecting their assets and making money from transfers.  It all depends if the CPL churns out better players that Don would rather make all Canadians domestic.

[Macksam]

10 hours ago, Rheo said:

I get the sentimentality and hockey related benefits if they did it.  I worry about it marginalizing the teams that come after.  

That would be an ideal scenario actually. That would mean the six teams would be consistently selling out stadiums and the league's quality of play would be at a high level, which is the reason hockey fans didn't want the NHL to expand past 6 way back when. However, for the CPL, expansion past the original 6 needs to be carried out a lot better than the NHL's back in 1967. It should be carried out like how MLS does it since TFC expanded, SSS (for the most part) and wealthy ownership groups.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

6 hours ago, PJSweet said:

Can we have a confirmation if whether the new CSA-MLS player deal announced today is an attempt to squash #CanPL before it begins? Please we need clarification. So many people on Twitter are now alleging that this is now the case without backing it up with substantiated facts.

Maybe CPL will be the brand used for the USL in Canada? We haven't heard the details of what the CSA will sign off on this weekend in that regard. Given a Generation Adidas Canada has been announced:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2016/11/30/tfc-gm-says-team-can-be-contender-for-years-to-come.html

A new collaboration between Major League Soccer and the Canadian Soccer Association, announced Wednesday, could also give Toronto FC a hand going forward.

First, the two organizations will collaborate on a joint task force ― including representatives from the league, the national body and all three Canadian MLS team ― focused on creating new initiatives which will help youth development in the country, through academies, coaching, competitions and individualized player development.

A Generation Adidas Canada program will also be put in place, aimed at identifying top talent out of Canada and signing them to subsidized contracts.

it seems clear that the CSA now views MLS as the top of their player development pyramid.

[Ansem]

5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Maybe CPL will be the brand used for the USL in Canada? We haven't heard the details of what the CSA will sign off on this weekend in that regard. Given a Generation Adidas Canada has been announced:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2016/11/30/tfc-gm-says-team-can-be-contender-for-years-to-come.html

A new collaboration between Major League Soccer and the Canadian Soccer Association, announced Wednesday, could also give Toronto FC a hand going forward.

First, the two organizations will collaborate on a joint task force ― including representatives from the league, the national body and all three Canadian MLS team ― focused on creating new initiatives which will help youth development in the country, through academies, coaching, competitions and individualized player development.

A Generation Adidas Canada program will also be put in place, aimed at identifying top talent out of Canada and signing them to subsidized contracts.

it seems clear that the CSA now views MLS as the top of their player development pyramid.

my god...keep on with the pessimism and the USL crap

"it seems clear that the CSA now views MLS as the top of their player development pyramid."

I've learned since high school that the above sentence is an opinion, not a fact... keyword is "seems"

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

...and, this is a messageboard for discussing fan's opinions, so what would be the problem with that even if it were true? Those with keen English language comprehension skills, however, will note that the word "seems" actually denotes an element of doubt on my part given there is a spectacular U-turn involved in all of this even by CSA standards from postures being taken by Victor Montagliani earlier this year. It will be interesting to see what the niche is now for the proposed CPL, because these MLS rule changes are going to make some players think long and hard before turning their back on the MLS Academy / approved youth club - USL - MLS or MLS Academy / approved youth club - NCAA/PDL - USL/MLS pathways.

[Gopherbashi]

11 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

I think the problem right now is that he doesn't really have any leverage right now.  This is what makes CPL even more important.  It's not really Monty's fault if he isn't coming to the table with enough leverage to do more than this, it just is what it is.  

If CPL already was a stable product I suspect it would have been a much more favourable deal.

To be fair, he does have some leverage right now - the threat that the CPL will be a success.  He'd have far less leverage if the CPL fizzled out.

[Complete Homer]

The good thing about the deal is that it sets the precedent that Canadians should have some special status league wide. The bad thing is that they can easily say that they've now addressed the issue and can pretend they've done what is necessary. Now they will say that the player pool is entirely at fault if more players don't become domestic over time, despite the unnecessary inclusion of the MLS signing

 

[matty]

Some expectations

-6 teams single table 20 games top 4 make playoffs. Top 5 in VCup

-8 teams conference 20 games top 2 in each conference make playoffs. Top 5 in VCup (rankings for team 3-5 decided based on interconference games)

-10 teams conferences 26 games top 3 in each conference make playoffs with 2nd and 3rd playing a wildcard game. VCup becomes open cup

[Kent]

4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...and, this is a messageboard for discussing fan's opinions, so what would be the problem with that even if it were true? Those with keen English language comprehension skills, however, will note that the word "seems" actually denotes an element of doubt on my part given there is a spectacular U-turn involved in all of this even by CSA standards from postures being taken by Victor Montagliani earlier this year. It will be interesting to see what the niche is now for the proposed CPL, because these MLS rule changes are going to make some players think long and hard before turning their back on the MLS Academy / approved youth club - USL - MLS or MLS Academy / approved youth club - NCAA/PDL - USL/MLS pathways.

I think I'm missing something, what is the spectacular u-turn?

As for the concerns that Steve Sandor brought up, I think they are good points, but ultimately being a bit blown out of proportion. Before the announcement lots of people were talking about a potential (semi) solution being MLS academy players qualifying as domestic. As far as I can tell, this is essentially that, except it's homegrown signings rather than players that were in an MLS academy. The approved clubs thing is interesting. I expect the approval of clubs to be pretty cynical (not approving CPL academies perhaps, for example) but even if even one more club (ex: Sigma) in addition to the MLS clubs is approved, it seems like a net win for this rule over the hypothetical rule we talked about before this announcement.

As for players decisions being a bit forced towards MLS teams, I imagine that would probably be the case at least initially anyways. MLS teams are higher profile and will almost certainly be higher paying. The CPL clubs if they have academies will provide a bigger geographical footprint and will provide extra opportunities for players. In the medium to long term it will be up to the CPL teams and the MLS teams to show which is the more favourable route. For example: if MLS teams only sign 1 homegrown player every 3 years, but CPL teams sign 3 guys a year, they might prefer the CPL teams. If the MLS signings just sit on the bench until they are released, while CPL teams give their players playing time and can move them on to bigger and better things, then that would be favourable for CPL teams. Just like Sigma has gained a lot of recognition for how their graduates have done, that's how all academies will ultimately be judged, both CPL and MLS.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

25 minutes ago, Kent said:

I think I'm missing something, what is the spectacular u-turn?

Things have moved from a we need our own league because MLS isn't being fair to our players, so we are going to launch one of our own with big money investors to provide a place where our national team players can play posture, to policies like a Canadian Generation Adidas and drawing up a list of approved youth clubs with MLS that are designed to steer genuine CMNT prospects towards MLS and their affiliated USL teams in future in terms of their first professional contract and all this just days before we are told they are ratifying CPL's sanctioning.

[Kent]

47 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Things have moved from a we need our own league because MLS isn't being fair to our players, so we are going to launch one of our own with big money investors to provide a place where our national team players can play posture, to policies like a Canadian Generation Adidas and drawing up a list of approved youth clubs with MLS that are designed to steer genuine CMNT prospects towards MLS and their affiliated USL teams in future in terms of their first professional contract and all this just days before we are told they are ratifying CPL's sanctioning.

OK. I don't see that as a u turn. The whole time all this CPL talk has been going on these last couple years, there has also been the domestic player issue talk in parallel.

I really think this rule, and the generation adidas Canada thing, etc, will amount to a small handful of players a year. The US Generation Adidas list I think is something like 5 to 10 players a year. I imagine the Canadian list would be 1-5 per year, or maybe even 0 some years.

As for the homegrown signings. I think the guys in their late teens/early twenties probably have a pretty good sense of whether they have a shot at getting an MLS contract at that point. If a CPL wants to poach one of those academy guys that aren't the top 2 or 3 prospects for the MLS club, likely lots of them would be fine with jumping to the CPL. Even without these recent rule changes, those top 2 or 3 prospects would be unlikely to abandon their MLS chances for a (likely) smaller paycheque in the CPL.

[Gopherbashi]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Things have moved from a we need our own league because MLS isn't being fair to our players, so we are going to launch one of our own with big money investors to provide a place where our national team players can play posture, to policies like a Canadian Generation Adidas and drawing up a list of approved youth clubs with MLS that are designed to steer genuine CMNT prospects towards MLS and their affiliated USL teams in future in terms of their first professional contract and all this just days before we are told they are ratifying CPL's sanctioning.

Just because MLS is now being less unfair to our players doesn't mean that they're being fair to our players, and doesn't negate the CSA's rationale for the CPL.

It's a multi-pronged approach to improving the numbers and quality of Canadian professional soccer players - both growing their opportunities and attractiveness within MLS and giving more outlets for Canadian pro soccer outside the three MLS teams.  It doesn't have to be an either/or situation.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

6 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Just because MLS is now being less unfair to our players doesn't mean that they're being fair to our players, and doesn't negate the CSA's rationale for the CPL.

And just because we now have signed up to policies that will actively encourage young Canadian players to sign their first professional contract with either USL or MLS rather than other leagues in North America whether that be the NASL (OK, probably not for much longer in that case given Carlos Slim is saying that the Cosmos rumour was bogus) or a new league started by the Ticats, there's no reason not to also turn around and push a new domestic league as well as the solution to all our problems? Welcome to the wild and wacky world of Canadian soccer. It's usually better to have all players of comparable ability playing against each other in the same league setup rather than splitting them up across parallel structures.

[lazlo_80]

4 hours ago, matty said:

Some expectations

-6 teams single table 20 games top 4 make playoffs. Top 5 in VCup

-8 teams conference 20 games top 2 in each conference make playoffs. Top 5 in VCup (rankings for team 3-5 decided based on interconference games)

-10 teams conferences 26 games top 3 in each conference make playoffs with 2nd and 3rd playing a wildcard game. VCup becomes open cup

I'd expect every professional team in Canada to compete in the VCup not just a select few from CPL

[lazlo_80]

My two cents for the very, very little it's worth on the Canadians (sort of) as domestics rule.

It's clearly not a good starting position for the CPL. But to the points made above here, without a sucessful CPL, the  CSA has zero leverage in this sort of negotiation.

BUT....One thing I think is flying under the radar here...

We've often complained about the CSA lacking that central power over the provincial associations, well the CSA just got handed a major tool to help them control things a little better. This "CSA approved clubs" thing, if used correctly could provide to be a MASSIVE tool to get clubs and provinces falling in line with them. Suddenly they have the power to effectively decide which clubs around the country are preferred development routes for a career in pro soccer...meaning the CSA can make sure the clubs are doing what they want before they approve them.

To BringBackTheBlizzard's comment, this "Canadian Generation Adidas" thing is really intriguing too. Does that become the designation that allows top CPL prospects to leave for the MLS? Will be interesting to see.

[dyslexic nam]

I get all that, but the requirement of signing with MLS as the first pro contract seems to preclude any senior affiliation with CPL.  Thus it may allow "top CPL prospects to leave for the MLS", but it will do so at the expense of CPL ever getting to utilize the top Canadian youth in their development system.  

 

For an individual player this may be a positive but for overall development of a Canadian domestic league, which many see as ultimately important for our long term success (more so than a slightly easier path into MLS) this seeks to ensure that CPL will be a lower division league for a long time to come.

[lazlo_80]

8 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I get all that, but the requirement of signing with MLS as the first pro contract seems to preclude any senior affiliation with CPL.  Thus it may allow "top CPL prospects to leave for the MLS", but it will do so at the expense of CPL ever getting to utilize the top Canadian youth in their development system.  

My thinking was that perhaps the "Generation Adidas Canada" designation is their way of saying "okay the best young players on your senior level CPL teams can now be considered domestics across MLS"

again, just speculation. But I don't understand why you'd suddenly need a separate designation for Gen Adidas players from Canada.

[CDNFootballer]

17 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Maybe CPL will be the brand used for the USL in Canada?

Barf!

 

Good way for the CPL to be dead on arrival, partner with Mls's reserve affiliate minor league.

 

Canadian fans deserves much better than that trash.

[CDNFootballer]

23 hours ago, PJSweet said:

Why would the CSA sign into such a deal if it's going to hurt the CanPL and Canadian interest. I'm now shaking my head.

And why was having Canadians as domestic on MLS clubs not allowed per US laws previously according to Garber but now he will allow it if players are signed into and controlled by the MLS system?

 

Pure BS and if CSA is not very careful MLS will wave $ and try at all costs to gain some control in CPL through satellite clubs or some other means of gaining influence.

[nolbertos]

1 hour ago, lazlo_80 said:

My thinking was that perhaps the "Generation Adidas Canada" designation is their way of saying "okay the best young players on your senior level CPL teams can now be considered domestics across MLS"

again, just speculation. But I don't understand why you'd suddenly need a separate designation for Gen Adidas players from Canada.

Well, I'm assuming that Generation Adidas Canada would work the same way like the US, in the sense that they don't count against a teams salary cap, guarantees elite players a salary way above players their age, so they won't leave the club or academy and stay in MLS.  I know Darren Mattocks was paid almost $200K because of the generation adidad label.  This at least makes young athletes in the 14-18 range think about continuing their careers in soccer and MLS.  I don't know how the CPL would compete against generation adidas, but then again, I'm assuming CPL will mostly pick up the mid to bottom tier Canadian players to play in their league.  Their maybe a gem or two that could arise from the CPL, but most of the elite Canadian kids will probably be enticed to join the MLS academies.