Canadian Premier League

[matty]

Just now, lazlo_80 said:

But this isn't a reserve team. An affiliate functions as its own entity. I'm not trying to be difficult, but this is in fact something other than a reserve team.

if fcm is shutting down and the fury are taking over their role, they will be a reserve team

[lazlo_80]

Just now, matty said:

if fcm is shutting down and the fury are taking over their role, they will be a reserve team

We could debate this back and forth. I understand what you are saying with the roster and make up containing reserve players but an affiliate means it is its own organization whereas a reserve team is part of the same organization as the team above it. The ottawa fury isn't owned by Saputo, but by OSEG. Thus its an affiliate and not a reserve team. 

In baseball a triple A team for the yankees isn't owned by the yankees, its an affiliate that has a partnership with the Yankees.

The wording is very important here because noone has said the CPL can't have affiliates.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

4 minutes ago, mianjo said:

What does Impact provide to the Fury?

Some players and not necessarily all that many, if some other affiliation deals are anything to go by:

http://www.revolutionsoccer.net/club/affiliates

The Rochester Rhinos are the Revolution’s official USL PRO affiliate. Under the partnership agreement, the Revs will loan at least four first-team players to the Rhinos for their USL season to gain meaningful playing time. Those players, who can be recalled to the Revs at any time, will spend the season in Rochester as full members of the Rhinos for their season.

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

Where did you see that reported? I haven't seen that anywhere.

I tend to believe the multiple sources stating the same thing; they won’t accept B teams from MLS? I mean I don’t understand why people are surprised at this. They are launching a league that they will market as Division 1, why on earth would they accept teams from Division 3 US leagues? Don’t you see how damaging that would be to the CPL brand domestically and worldwide? No investors in their sane minds would pour millions into this.

 

How about trying some patience and let things develop. If all of this proved anything is the vital necessity of a Canadian Division 1 league with very deep pocket owners committed in the long term and fully understanding that profits will come much later. What’s happening to Edmonton and Ottawa is due to a USSF league that can’t keep their act together, yet some still view them as a viable solution…

 

Can we start with CPL and see what they’ll bring to the table? Can we wait and see how the CSA will solve the missing Division 2 problem?

[lazlo_80]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

I tend to believe the multiple sources stating the same thing; they won’t accept B teams from MLS? I mean I don’t understand why people are surprised at this. They are launching a league that they will market as Division 1, why on earth would they accept teams from Division 3 US leagues? Don’t you see how damaging that would be to the CPL brand domestically and worldwide? No investors in their sane minds would pour millions into this.

 

How about trying some patience and let things develop. If all of this proved anything is the vital necessity of a Canadian Division 1 league with very deep pocket owners committed in the long term and fully understanding that profits will come much later. What’s happening to Edmonton and Ottawa is due to a USSF league that can’t keep their act together, yet some still view them as a viable solution…

 

Can we start with CPL and see what they’ll bring to the table? Can we wait and see how the CSA will solve the missing Division 2 problem?

Again. This wouldn't be a B team but an affiliate. They are two very distinct things.

[Ansem]

Just now, lazlo_80 said:

Again. This wouldn't be a B team but an affiliate. They are two very distinct things.

And that's why we're not billionaires it seems. People aren't dumb and will know that OFFC are Montreal Impact affiliate. Investors will never take the risk to damage their brand. They won't care about "technicalities"

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

How about trying some patience and let things develop.

LOL

[matty]

Another alternative here is "what if the CSA jumps on this and launches in 2017 with a fall season to prevent FCE from being dormant for a year and to scoop up unemployed NASL Canadians?" If FCE are willing now and you've got 4-5 other teams set and waiting, could this bump up the launch.

1 minute ago, lazlo_80 said:

Again. This wouldn't be a B team but an affiliate. They are two very distinct things.

It's likely half their roster at least will be Impact reserves 

[lazlo_80]

Just now, Ansem said:

And that's why we're not billionaires it seems. People aren't dumb and will know that OFFC are Montreal Impact affiliate. Investors will never take the risk to damage their brand. They won't care about "technicalities"

all I asked was if you had any evidence that the CPL wasn't going to have affiliates in it. You did not. This is simply your opinion.

If you want to know my opinion, personally I don't think it would ruin any brands, and frankly could help in some situations.

I guess we'll see what the billionaires think.

[Ansem]

I hope CPL stay the course and launch in 2018. They seem to do their due diligence and for them to change everything over OFFC and Edmonton FC instability would actually make me very pessimistic of CPL.

Stay the course and do it right

[lazlo_80]

1 minute ago, matty said:

It's likely half their roster at least will be Impact reserves 

Again, the amount of players doesn't effect whether its reserve or affiliate. Its the structure of the team.

Also, where did you hear its likely it will be half their roster?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

2 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

Again. This wouldn't be a B team but an affiliate. They are two very distinct things.

Agree, but how does CPL fit into the equation in all of this? Think there would need to be a shift from the Totera CPL type vision to what Kurt Larson has been pushing before any MLS related team is involved. Not impossible things will pan out that way eventually, but I seriously doubt it's what the Hamilton Ticats would want if they can put enough investor groups together to move in the other direction.

[dyslexic nam]

7 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

Again. This wouldn't be a B team but an affiliate. They are two very distinct things.

I agree that they aren't the same thing, but insofar as one part of the affiliation is demonstrably inferior, it still has the same outcome of pretty much proving 2nd class status of the league.  The Impact are not going to loan out first-team players to their affiliate - they would (if modeled after the Rochester example) loan out guys who show promise but don't make the starting 11.  That pretty much de facto shows that the non-MLS affiliate is2nd tier. 

 

Not trying to be argumentative - just pointing out that while you may be technically right, I still think the "affiliate" status doesn't pass the CPL sniff test.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, lazlo_80 said:

all I asked was if you had any evidence that the CPL wasn't going to have affiliates in it. You did not. This is simply your opinion.

If you want to know my opinion, personally I don't think it would ruin any brands, and frankly could help in some situations.

I guess we'll see what the billionaires think.

Ok, MLSE met with the CSA/CPL saying they wanted in the league, very bad.

http://theprovince.com/sports/soccer/csa-sets-sights-on-2018-canadian-premier-league-launch

“I don’t want to create confusion in the market place,” Manning said. “I told Victor we want to be involved and want to be at the table when this league or division comes about.”

Manning later added: “It’s not a competitor to MLS.”

The question, though, is what the CSA wants it to be.

Having MLS affiliation would undoubtedly give the CPL a minor-league feel.

 

Again, why on earth would multi-millionaire/billionaires pour millions into a "minor-league" type of league???

[lazlo_80]

1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

I agree that they aren't the same thing, but insofar as one part of the affiliation is demonstrably inferior, it still has the same outcome of pretty much proving 2nd class status of the league.  The Impact are not going to loan out first-team players to their affiliate - they would (if modeled after the Rochester example) loan out guys who show promise but don't make the starting 11.  That pretty much de facto shows that the non-MLS affiliate is2nd tier. 

 

Not trying to be argumentative - just pointing out that while you may be technically right, I still think the "affiliate" status doesn't [ass the CPL sniff test.

You're not being argumentative at all. I think what you're saying makes a ton of sense.

And I don't intend to make a big deal out of this. All I was getting at was that there has been nothing explicitly said that MLS can't have a CPL affiliate. And until that is said we can't assume there won't be.

Just being devils advocate, suppose TFC had an affiliation with a team in Kitchener that they would lend them 3-4 players, guys like Babouli or Chapman. Would that be such a bad thing? I don't think it would

[mianjo]

It's likely half their roster at least will be Impact reserves 

Seeing as the Fury have already signed 13 players and will probably sign some more, i reckon maybe the Impact provide 1-4 players at most.

 

[lazlo_80]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

Ok, MLSE met with the CSA/CPL saying they wanted in the league, very bad.

http://theprovince.com/sports/soccer/csa-sets-sights-on-2018-canadian-premier-league-launch

“I don’t want to create confusion in the market place,” Manning said. “I told Victor we want to be involved and want to be at the table when this league or division comes about.”

Manning later added: “It’s not a competitor to MLS.”

The question, though, is what the CSA wants it to be.

Having MLS affiliation would undoubtedly give the CPL a minor-league feel.

 

Again, why on earth would multi-millionaire/billionaires pour millions into a "minor-league" type of league???

This is the opinion of Kurt Larson. I'm not arguing with the why? I was simply saying there has been nowhere where it's been said that it definitely won't happen.

[lazlo_80]

Just now, mianjo said:

It's likely half their roster at least will be Impact reserves 

Seeing as the Fury have already signed 13 players and will probably sign some more, i reckon maybe the Impact provide 104 players at most.

 

That makes sense. Thanks.

[matty]

8 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

Again, the amount of players doesn't effect whether its reserve or affiliate. Its the structure of the team.

Also, where did you hear its likely it will be half their roster?

At least 4 players will be from Montreal and if they again are taking over FCM's role, Montreal will likely loan more players there then most MLS teams do. There's also the matter of players that leave the Fury over this move, who will need replacing and those replacements will likely come from Montreal. It's very, very possible 8-18 roster spots on the Fury will be Impact reserves

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Just now, Ansem said:

Again, why on earth would multi-millionaire/billionaires pour millions into a "minor-league" type of league???

It remains to be seen if any would other than Bob Young. There have been a distinct lack of solid rumours from other cities.

[Macksam]

4 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

have a CPL affiliate. And until that is said we can't assume there won't be.

Just being devils advocate, suppose TFC had an affiliation with a team in Kitchener that they would lend them 3-4 players, guys like Babouli or Chapman. Would that be such a bad thing? I don't think it would

If TFC wants to loan a few players to a CPL team, they should just leave it at that. No need to create an affiliation and limit themselves to dealing with one CPL team.

[matty]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It remains to be seen if any would other than Bob Young. There have been a distinct lack of solid rumours from other cities.

I think we're at the point we can trust that Rollins and Totera have a good source but I agree the lack of even a second group being mentioned by them or anyone else is somewhat concerning.

[Macksam]

8 minutes ago, matty said:

I think we're at the point we can trust that Rollins and Totera have a good source but I agree the lack of even a second group being mentioned by them or anyone else is somewhat concerning.

Remember Vic said something about confidentiality agreements being in place.

[matty]

6 minutes ago, Macksam said:

Remember Vic said something about confidentiality agreements being in place.

yep but leaks do happen. they must have the most secretive groups ever (seriously we're talking dozens if not a few hundred people that would of been involved by this point) or the harshest punishment for breaking it or it's much smaller than thought or no one is interested.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, matty said:

yep but leaks do happen. they must have the most secretive groups ever (seriously we're talking dozens if not a few hundred people that would of been involved by this point) or the harshest punishment for breaking it or it's much smaller than thought or no one is interested.

It's called doing things the right way!

Look how everybody was blindsided when the Atlanta team got relocated to Winnipeg