Marco Bustos to Chile U-20

[TFC07]

Okay, so did anyone confirm that Caps encourage Bustos to attend Chile Under 20 camp?  

[canucklefan]

Then explain the contributions to CMNT page?

There's no contribution at all. That thread is bullshit. Players with no pro experience will never help Canada qualify to a WC. They played for the MNT because there isn't a pro league here and that's the best you can find, players training in professional clubs with not a single minute played in the first team. And it's not just Vancouver, the quantity of minutes played by Canadian players in the 3 clubs together is far from the minimum one could hope to see the MNT in the WC.

[Aird25]

Does it not seem at least a little ironic that this debate is taking place in a thread about a Canadian player developed by the Caps that is choosing a superior footballing nation? New debate: are the Whitecaps developing players that are simply too far above CANMNT? Is the MLS growing too fast for Canadian development to catch up?

But seriously, I'm just glad that there is finally some chatter about one of our brightest prospects. At times it seems difficult to find any actual football banter on any of these supporters forums.

[tmcmurph]

There's no contribution at all. That thread is bullshit. Players with no pro experience will never help Canada qualify to a WC. They played for the MNT because there isn't a pro league here and that's the best you can find, players training in professional clubs with not a single minute played in the first team. And it's not just Vancouver, the quantity of minutes played by Canadian players in the 3 clubs together is far from the minimum one could hope to see the MNT in the WC.

 

Oh you must be talking about this thread:

 

http://www.thevoyageurs.org/index.php?/topic/25198-contributions-to-mnt-by-our-academies/

 

Far from being "bullshit", as you so in-eloquently put it, it is as accurate a measure as we have to how much each academy contributes. Each appearance counts as one point. So if someone gets a call and doesn't perform well they don't get called back they stay at one. Several players on that list with only one cap. There are also several with double digits worth. They obviously are "helping Canada" or the various coaches wouldn't call them back. 81 caps for 16 players with 3 players making up 39 of those caps. 

 

Oh yes the old "first team minutes" as the only valid yardstick by which to measure a club's contribution to the CMNT. So a player is developed by a club for 2+ years and then goes somewhere else to play his club games but still answers the call up, proudly puts on the red & white and plays for us is somehow less of a contribution because he plays D2/3 in Europe? 

 

We have 17 Canadians full time employed as players on the 3 MLS teams. 4, 6 & 7 for Caps, Impact & TFC respectively. Not great but a good start. How many playing minutes will they get? That is up to them. If they are good enough they will get the starts because the coach wants to keep his job and his job depends on MLS results. Play better than the alternatives and you will get the minutes. 

 

Montreal really lucked out with Patrice wanting to play there and now getting Issey in a trade. Both players I've have loved to see in a Caps kit. It didn't work out for us. Good for Montreal. As a result they will win the minutes played by Canadians award for the 3 MLS teams. But if players like Will Johnson and Rob Friend don't want to play for a Canadian team what are we to do? 

 

It is a tough gig but the last thing we need to do is to give the young players a sense of entitlement. You get to play because you are Canadian is a very bad way to do it and won't develop the skills we need. We need players who can take on players from the USA, central & south america and keep a starting position with consistent play at a level above what the others can bring. It starts at the club level where for the first time a lot of the players are exposed to serious competition from foreign players. Once they conquer that hurdle they will be ready to do it in WCQ. 

 

First team playing minutes are not given or even earned as much as they are taken. When a player simply plays better than any alternative he will get the minutes. Russell Teibert has lost his starting position to Fernandez. It pains me to say it but currently that is fair. Fernandez is simply playing much better at this point. Up to Russell to improve and make the most of his chances when he gets them.

[finchster]

But guys the Whitecaps do so much for Canadian soccer since they joined MLS, like killing their USL W-League team and barely playing a single Canadian for years without even being able to use "winning" as a bad excuse and prioritizing Americans out of NCAA and not having any Canadian first team coaches since Colin Miller got canned and promoting a "national" training centre out at UBC without actually making any agreement to allow the CSA to use it, so Canadian national teams are training out at Burnaby Lake even right now.

To be fair, firing Collin Miller was a benefit to Canadian soccer. 

[canucklefan]

TRM, that thread you made was to give some credibility to Whitecaps, because all of the criticism in the Voyageurs forums. I remember that got you frustrated and you had all the right to be frustrated. This year, Montreal gave some starts to one more Canadian than Vancouver, and Toronto only 2 more. I'm talking about Canadians that should be part of the next WCQ campaign.

[tmcmurph]

Does it not seem at least a little ironic that this debate is taking place in a thread about a Canadian player developed by the Caps that is choosing a superior footballing nation? New debate: are the Whitecaps developing players that are simply too far above CANMNT? Is the MLS growing too fast for Canadian development to catch up?

But seriously, I'm just glad that there is finally some chatter about one of our brightest prospects. At times it seems difficult to find any actual football banter on any of these supporters forums.

 

Ironic yes, in a painful way. 

 

What can the clubs do? Only take players into the academies who have no other options but to play for Canada? Given our multi heritage make up we'd have cut our player pool by at least 75%. No club can be expected to do that. Professional soccer is way to competitive for that. 

 

No and yes to your new debate. I don't think the players coming out of our academies are too good. If they were they'd be getting starts or subs as teenagers in the MLS. The quality of player in MLS has gone up dramatically since I started watching TFC in 2007. I don't know how many players in the league from 2007 would cut it if they came up today. Hence the vital importance of D2 & D3 opportunities for the vast majority of players. 

 

In the world of football the pyramid is very small at the top. MLS is the top in north america so expecting a lot of players to break through is not realistic and will only get tougher as the level of play improves. In a strange way that might be a good thing. Fewer might break through but those that do will be vital to our WCQ in 2018/22.

[rob.notenboom]

 

However, because of past experiences, I will have a 2-4 in the fridge for when I find out that I am wrong

Having a 2-4 in the fridge should simply be a given. And it also helps one read this thread.

[tmcmurph]

TRM, that thread you made was to give some credibility to Whitecaps, because all of the criticism in the Voyageurs forums. I remember that got you frustrated and you had all the right to be frustrated. This year, Montreal gave some starts to one more Canadian than Vancouver, and Toronto only 2 more. I'm talking about Canadians that should be part of the next WCQ campaign.

 

Yea I was frustrated and still am at the negative nonsense directed at the team I support but contrary to what you say it does show some players who may be of help to us in 2018/22. Morgan, Henry and Straith are solid and may be helpful. As I said in the thread it will be interesting in 10 years to look back and see where the players for our MNT come from. Then and now I still think European players will make up the bulk of our team. 

 

Our best players are still trained and employed in Europe. Having 3 more pro level academies for players who can't go that route is vital. It gives them a start. Expanding the D2 & D3 opportunities for them here would be the next logical step. 

 

PS. TFC have less points but lead in players with more than 10 caps. So if anything my list shows they are better at producing players (so far).

[lazlo_80]

Article about it, read into it what you will... 

 

http://www.theprovince.com/touch/sports/soccer/Canada+Italy+Whitecaps+Bustos+chooses+play+Chile+leaving/10005996/story.html?rel=837260

[Ivan]

^ Thanks.  That article pretty much says it all.  Not closing ANY doors.

[lazlo_80]

If he shows up on the Milk cup roster this tempest in a teapot dissapears for a while. Very similar to what Aird seems to be doing. Dating two girls at the same time.

[Soccerpro]

Did anyone notice that Aird is also getting funding from the Canadian govt? Crazy!

[Keegan]

Did anyone notice that Aird is also getting funding from the Canadian govt? Crazy!

 

Who knows what's going on behind the scenes?  These guys have probably committed to play for Canada next year at the Pan Am games for the $ and will make a decision after that on the first team they choose.  I really hope to see Aird in Toronto in September though. 

[The Beaver]

Listen, I'm just as pissed off as the rest of you about Bustos, but if Morales can't make the cut for Chile, Bustos never will. From what I understand they kid has got a lot of skill but is soft as hell. Maybe he'll man up someday, but fecking off to Chile after all Canada has done for me does not suggest he's got a lot of man in him. We'll see.

 

As for the 'Caps developing Canadian talent etc.: Calm the frick down everybody! Jeez you guys are being silly. It is going to take time to properly develop quality young Canadian players. This goes for all 3 Canadian MLS academies.  According to Ryan Nelsen the 'Caps academy--which is teeming with Canadians--is significantly ahead of TFC's.  Let's be honest and rational with ourselves: Canada is at least 10 years away from having a team that could get to the World Cup. That means that most of the young players now in MLS--Osorio, Tiebert, Henry--are either going to be on the old side for qualifying, or already out of the national team. The future is way the frick a head of us.  It is the 12 and 14 and 16 year olds that are the future. What the Caps (and TFC and Impact) need to do over the next decade is continue to scout and develop new young talent while ALSO playing attractive football and winning lots of games and making the IDEA of playing with these teams appealing etc. Just look at the impact the Raptors have had in this regard: the last two first overall picks in the NBA were from TO.  We need thousands of prospects, and the best thing we can do is show them great football in their own city and province.

 

Take a deep breath. Tennis Canada took ten years to turn things around.  France took ten years to turn things around before they won their first World Cup. From my count, we've just started our ten year march with Canadian soccer. Keep the perspective: there ain't NO quick fixes.

[soccerlife]

Did anyone notice that Aird is also getting funding from the Canadian govt? Crazy!

 

I just re-read the list.  Aird is NOT on it.  This system of carding players is so that they are able to keep plying their trade, and not have to get another job, in order to represent Canada.  That is really the disappointment. One would think that going to another countries camp is against it is opposite the fundamental idea of why you receive the money.  Otherwise, if you are not funded by Heritage Canada, try all you want.  Because when you accept the money, it is like an unwritten contract in good faith you will stay available for Canada and only Canada.  

 

A player does not go to another countries camp for something to do.  You have to have the hope to making that team.  

 

Athlete Name Home Province City Card Grant Amount Marco Carducci Alberta Calgary D $10,800 Samuel Adekugbe British Columbia Burnaby D $10,800 Hanson Boakai Alberta Edmonton D $10,800 Jackson Farmer British Columbia Burnaby D $10,800 Daniel Stanese British Columbia Maple Ridge C1 $10,800 Benjamin Fisk Routledge British Columbia Vancouver C1 $10,800 Caleb Clarke British Columbia Richmond C1 $10,800 Nolan Wirth British Columbia Comox D $7,200 Dylan Carreiro Middlesex West Drayton D $10,800 Kianz Froese Manitoba Brunkild D $10,800 Marco Bustos Manitoba Winnipeg D $10,800 Keven Aleman Bustos Ontario York C1 $10,800 Doneil Henry Ontario Brampton C1 $10,800 Bryce Alderson British Columbia Vancouver C1 $10,800 Luca Gasparotto Ontario Ajax D $10,800 Michael Petrasso Ontario Woodbridge C1 $10,800 Jordan Hamilton Ontario Toronto D $10,800 Richard Gomes Ontario Baden C1 $10,800 Mauro Eustaquio Oeste Nazaré C1 $10,800 Manuel Aparicio Ontario East York D $10,800 Maxime Crépeau Quebec Candiac C1 $10,800 Samuel Piette Quebec Repentigny C1 $10,800 Jeremy Gagnon-Laparé Quebec Magog C1 $10,800

[VWFC]

The Caps have taken heat for cutting so many of their residency guys loose while signing journeymen pros from other countries to stock their bench historically.  They've argued that this is to build a stronger team and thus grow soccer in Canada that way, but have not won anyway, so people will say at least TFC has made an investment of first team playing time in young Canadians while basically achieving the same results minus a single first round playoff knockout. 

 

Then using taxpayer money and supporting the BC Place reno of a big concrete pointy ball stadium instead of getting a soccer stadium built and basically renoing some existing fields at UBC and adding a fieldhouse instead of building a proper training centre.  I don't think they've really improved soccer infrastructure in BC that much.  Visibility is another matter.

 

Where Kerfoot has really shone is in his commitment to the women's program though, which went above and beyond.  I don't think anyone would argue that their intent isn't good but their approach/results is another matter.  Bottom line is that it is probably a totally separate debate... I dunno maybe should have started another topic on the MLS board but just don't have the appetite.

 

One thing is for sure, if the organization or someone acting as an employee encouraged him to play for Chile, even in a training camp, that is another matter.  Just heresay right now so I think everybody should reserve judgement but honestly for me it would take me from an on the fence go to a game now and again person to really turning me against them.

 

 

TFC has been terrible throughout MLS (excluding this year when they spent huge $ on FOREIGN players), there is no argument there even from TFC fans.  If you want to criticize the Caps for not playing Canadians, then you're right to, but don't say they have had the same amount of success as TFC.

 

Your info on the training facility is a little off.  Its a brand new 35,000 sqft training centre to be located in the current gravel parking lot in the middle of the fields at UBC.  Construction starts in late spring, early summer of 2015.  The Caps have just gone through the RFP's from architects, which include the same people who did TFC's as well as a firm from England.  It'll be pretty state of the art, hardly a 'field house'.  As an FYI the $17M. does not include the cost of renovating the 6 fields around the training centre.  The entire facility will be used by first team, residency and the National teams, which means the CWNT, because we're not allowed to watch the CMNT in Vancouver.  

 

The 'organization' who put him up to Chile was Morales.  

[VWFC]

This year, TFC are winning games and on pace to be top Canadian MLS team (based on standings) while playing Canadians for most of time.  I believe TFC have at least started 2 Canadian players for most of their games this year.  So yes, it's possible to be winning team while developing Canadian players.   Key for TFC is their academy and signing couple of veteran Canadian players.   Not only that, but TFC always give Canadian players overseas opportunity to train with first team in good faith.  This is why I still continue supporting TFC despite their ownership and past on-field results.  

 

No Canadians started for them on the weekend.  

 

The only players TFC developed were Henry and Morgan, the rest were drafted or signed.  There is a difference, a big difference.  If you want to criticize the Caps for not signing Canadian players then you're right, but don't claim TFC's development is all mightier and hollier than the Caps.

 

FYI Western Canadians always train with the Caps.  Straith is with them right now.   

[VWFC]

So then just admit that Toronto and Montreal have better academies/development and I'll be happy. 

 

Troll 

[VWFC]

List of players developed by the Whitecaps in the MLS era who are regulars on the Canadian men's or women's national team:

 

Didn't realize you revised the criteria.  Shall we do that for all the teams instead of just the Caps?  As you narrowed it to 'regulars' I think you'll find Montreal has 0 too.  And since we have to have a level playing field, we'll have to void anyone that was trained prior 2012 (that's when Montreal joined the MLS), so Toronto has 0 too.

 

Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver hate Canadians.       

[VWFC]

There's no contribution at all. That thread is bullshit. Players with no pro experience will never help Canada qualify to a WC. They played for the MNT because there isn't a pro league here and that's the best you can find, players training in professional clubs with not a single minute played in the first team. And it's not just Vancouver, the quantity of minutes played by Canadian players in the 3 clubs together is far from the minimum one could hope to see the MNT in the WC.

 

No pro experience?

 

I'm going to phone Adam, Russell, Kyle, Randy, Caleb, Phillip, and Mason to let them know they aren't actually playing professional soccer.  I think they'll be shocked.

[king1010]

Article about it, read into it what you will... 

 

http://www.theprovince.com/touch/sports/soccer/Canada+Italy+Whitecaps+Bustos+chooses+play+Chile+leaving/10005996/story.html?rel=837260

 

how the hell is a one week national team camp better for your "development". National teams don't develop the skill of players during 4 day camps 3 times  year. Players develop with club teams training 52 weeks a year.

 

Furthermore he says he still wants to play for Canada at the Milk Cup and he's simply "keeping his options open" Absolutely no loyalty. I wish i could tell my future girlfriend im "keeping my options open" and I need to be in bed with another girl for the "experience" and "development". he just sounds like another mercenary to me. will play for the highest bidder and best future prospects. 

 

I call bullshit and he is just a glory hunter with a big ego trying to take the easier route to the world cup while earning extra $$$ along the way. Thing is he won't crack the Chilean full MNT.

 

And the fact that the article says the Caps coaching staff encouraged the decision. Grade A organization over there, developing Canadian talent then encouraging their participation in other National Teams.   Good riddance. 

[dpetzz]

THE BEST COMMENT EVER!!!!

 

"Absolutely no loyalty. I wish i could tell my future girlfriend im "keeping my options open" and I need to be in bed with another girl for the "experience" and "development".

 

[Ivan]

how the hell is a one week national team camp better for your "development". National teams don't develop the skill of players during 4 day camps 3 times  year. Players develop with club teams training 52 weeks a year.

 

Furthermore he says he still wants to play for Canada at the Milk Cup and he's simply "keeping his options open" Absolutely no loyalty. I wish i could tell my future girlfriend im "keeping my options open" and I need to be in bed with another girl for the "experience" and "development". he just sounds like another mercenary to me. will play for the highest bidder and best future prospects. 

 

I call bullshit and he is just a glory hunter with a big ego trying to take the easier route to the world cup while earning extra $$$ along the way. Thing is he won't crack the Chilean full MNT.

 

And the fact that the article says the Caps coaching staff encouraged the decision. Grade A organization over there, developing Canadian talent then encouraging their participation in other National Teams.   Good riddance.

LOL. A little melodramatic, but you have a point. I still think he will play for Canada and is just using this as an experience. By rights, he should learn something from another national team. Having said all this, I still don't project Bustos as a starter for our next edition of U20s. Who will he beat out - Boakai, Carreirro, Lapare, Aparicio, Petrasso, Froese?

[hodgkiss]

I would love to see the CSA just cut guys off like this. I'm pretty sure countries like Italy, Germany or Brazil would shut the door on players like this. We are just way too nice and offer the "option" for players to walk all over us. If you want to go play for Chile - then go! Shut the door and give the kid who wants to play for Canada (who is truly a Canadian at heart) the chance. Far too many kids doing this and in my books, this is treason. The same kids that would turn their back on Canada if they ever had to fight for their country. Disgusting!