Marco Bustos to Chile U-20

[Supersonic78]

Who do I contact at the CSA to ask them what is going on?? I want to express my displeasure about this and ask what they're doing about it.

[Blackdude]

I kinda think we should take these defectors back for depth but if it ever comes down to a roster decision between them and another Canadian then it is an easy choice. That would be the true heart break.. imagine Bustos missing out on the 2022 World Cup roster because of his participation in a U20 camp for Chile in 2014? That sends a pretty strong message while doing what's best for the program.

I don't see how it would send a message. I don't think that it would send a message that someone missed a tournament because they'd say X was maybe better than Bustos, not because Bustos did something 8 years ago when he was 18.

[lazlo_80]

I was just down in Brazil for the World Cup and saw Spain play. Whenever Diego Costa touched the ball, let's just say the Brazilians had a chant waiting for the guy that would probably get you suspended from the field in this country. Long story short...Even Brazilians get angry with defecting players, I think we should be angry about this one, I could be wrong but isn't this the first time we've seen it from a kid who was actually at a pro canadian club in a canadian academy? Wasn't he the captain of the Canadian U17s at the world cup? Usually they spend a few years in another country before they start feeling less Canadian.

[dpetzz]

Hi guys sorry at the cottage.... Without officially saying... Let's just say I'm from Manitoba and heard from someone with direct connections to the u20 team *wink wink*

[dpetzz]

[tmcmurph]

Oh third hand (at least) information. You heard from someone who "has connections to the U20 team" who got it from whom? And they told you? Wow that has to be true then. No doubt about it the Caps hate Canada.

 

How about this for a scenario: The Whitecaps encourage all their young players who are eligible to play for the Canadian national teams. Five to seven usually get called up for the U17 & U20 camps. One gets a call from Chile to attend a U20 camp. So they say "go ahead it will be good experience for you" knowing full well he will find the level of players that are way over his head. He comes back and works harder knowing what he is up against and ends up realizing he isn't as good as he thinks he is. He ends up playing for Canada.

 

I heard that from someone who has connections to the Duze and they told someone who told me so it must be real. 

 

I really tire of the Caps bashing. They have done more for Canadian soccer than most. I don't like it that Bustos takes $10k from Canadian development programs and now wants to play for Chile. Changing that is up to the organization that gives the money out. Changing the stupid rules is up to FIFA. Changing the minds of young players who have a choice is up to them. But hey lets dump on the Caps because it's all their fault.

 

It isn't just the young either. How about Rob Friend? From BC but turned down a more lucrative offer from the Caps to stay in Germany because he had "something to prove" then goes to LA when he does come to MLS? WTF are they supposed to do? 

[narduch]

The Caps get criticized because they deserve it.

[tmcmurph]

The Caps get criticized because they deserve it.

 

Please provide specifics. I call BS on that.

 

They get criticized because people can't or won't learn to separate club and country.

 

Here is a partial list of things to criticize the Caps for:

 

1) Bankrolling a money losing D2 team for almost a decade that employed lots of Canadian players

2) Starting an academy to develop players some of whom have played for Canada

3) Building a 17 million training facility

4) Helping develop 9 players who have been represented Canada's MNT (43 caps total)

5) Financing the CWNT 

6) Currently employ 4 Canadian players on the first team

 

I await your list.

[Ivan]

Do we know for sure he wants to play for Chile or is he just chalking it up to experience?

[football_world]

Please provide specifics. I call BS on that.

 

They get criticized because people can't or won't learn to separate club and country.

 

Here is a partial list of things to criticize the Caps for:

 

1) Bankrolling a money losing D2 team for almost a decade that employed lots of Canadian players

2) Starting an academy to develop players some of whom have played for Canada

3) Building a 17 million training facility

4) Helping develop 9 players who have been represented Canada's MNT (43 caps total)

5) Financing the CWNT 

 

I await your list.

 

Yes.  I can't believe people think Greg Keerfoot and Bob Lenarduzzi are out to screw our national team and program, lol.  

[Keegan]

They're not out to screw the national program, they just don't care.

 

If saying that they're committed to helping Canada gets them $$ then obviously they're going to do it so that they can build that $17 million centre.  Economics kids.  What does that centre do for us?  Great young Canadians can train and play there but bottom line is that Vancouver is most likely the club with the least domestic content on their first team IN THE WORLD.  Now think about that.  In the world.  Find me a team with less domestic content than Vancouver.  Let that sink in Caps fans.

 

Funny reading twitter guess who Bustos biggest supporter is?  The voice of the Vancouver Whitecaps, PETER SCHAAD.  I don't hate the Caps, in fact I usually support them against any team other than Toronto and they have one of my favourite players in Teibert.  I'm just telling it like it is, this is a club that does very little for the national team and domestic players at the first team level.

 

I really hope that the Vancouver fans on this board take that to heart and do what is best for Canada and their club.  Don't take it personally but drive that change that your country needs. 

 

3 top level teams in this country = back end of the world in terms of teams

1 team (Vancouver) = least domestic content ANYWHERE on this planet

 

So basically we have 2 teams... and we're talking World Cup?  Having a laugh.

[Footscray]

The Caps have taken heat for cutting so many of their residency guys loose while signing journeymen pros from other countries to stock their bench historically.  They've argued that this is to build a stronger team and thus grow soccer in Canada that way, but have not won anyway, so people will say at least TFC has made an investment of first team playing time in young Canadians while basically achieving the same results minus a single first round playoff knockout. 

 

Then using taxpayer money and supporting the BC Place reno of a big concrete pointy ball stadium instead of getting a soccer stadium built and basically renoing some existing fields at UBC and adding a fieldhouse instead of building a proper training centre.  I don't think they've really improved soccer infrastructure in BC that much.  Visibility is another matter.

 

Where Kerfoot has really shone is in his commitment to the women's program though, which went above and beyond.  I don't think anyone would argue that their intent isn't good but their approach/results is another matter.  Bottom line is that it is probably a totally separate debate... I dunno maybe should have started another topic on the MLS board but just don't have the appetite.

 

One thing is for sure, if the organization or someone acting as an employee encouraged him to play for Chile, even in a training camp, that is another matter.  Just heresay right now so I think everybody should reserve judgement but honestly for me it would take me from an on the fence go to a game now and again person to really turning me against them.

[Keegan]

All I can say is I'm the glad that the Vancouver Whitecaps have NEVER won the Voyageurs Cup and I hope they never do so long as they continue on this trend.  7 time bridesmaids. 

[deschamp86]

I feel like things have been getting more positive on the youth front for Canada in recent years, so I am going to be glass half full and say that he is just going there because it will be a good experience for him, and will play for Canada at the end of the day..

 

However, because of past experiences, I will have a 2-4 in the fridge for when I find out that I am wrong

[madmonte]

 Find me a team with less domestic content than Vancouver.  Let that sink in Caps fans.

 

Last time I tried that line, they threw AS Monaco FC in my face, as if that was supposed to be comparable.  Just forestalling the obvious, Monaco is sort of a special case and has little to do with what Keegan is talking about here.

[TFC07]

The Caps have taken heat for cutting so many of their residency guys loose while signing journeymen pros from other countries to stock their bench historically.  They've argued that this is to build a stronger team and thus grow soccer in Canada that way, but have not won anyway, so people will say at least TFC has made an investment of first team playing time in young Canadians while basically achieving the same results minus a single first round playoff knockout. 

 

Then using taxpayer money and supporting the BC Place reno of a big concrete pointy ball stadium instead of getting a soccer stadium built and basically renoing some existing fields at UBC and adding a fieldhouse instead of building a proper training centre.  I don't think they've really improved soccer infrastructure in BC that much.  Visibility is another matter.

 

Where Kerfoot has really shone is in his commitment to the women's program though, which went above and beyond.  I don't think anyone would argue that their intent isn't good but their approach/results is another matter.  Bottom line is that it is probably a totally separate debate... I dunno maybe should have started another topic on the MLS board but just don't have the appetite.

 

One thing is for sure, if the organization or someone acting as an employee encouraged him to play for Chile, even in a training camp, that is another matter.  Just heresay right now so I think everybody should reserve judgement but honestly for me it would take me from an on the fence go to a game now and again person to really turning me against them.

 

This year, TFC are winning games and on pace to be top Canadian MLS team (based on standings) while playing Canadians for most of time.  I believe TFC have at least started 2 Canadian players for most of their games this year.  So yes, it's possible to be winning team while developing Canadian players.   Key for TFC is their academy and signing couple of veteran Canadian players.   Not only that, but TFC always give Canadian players overseas opportunity to train with first team in good faith.  This is why I still continue supporting TFC despite their ownership and past on-field results.  

[Keegan]

Last time I tried that line, they threw AS Monaco FC in my face, as if that was supposed to be comparable.  Just forestalling the obvious, Monaco is sort of a special case and has little to do with what Keegan is talking about here.

 

Monaco isn't a FIFA nation so that argument means nothing.  Domestics on Monaco would be French players. 

[tmcmurph]

Footscray: "The Caps have taken heat for cutting so many of their residency guys loose while signing journeymen pros from other countries".

- "cutting loose"? You mean offering them contracts but the players deciding to go other directions? 

 

Footscray: "Then using taxpayer money and supporting the BC Place reno of a big concrete pointy ball stadium instead of getting a soccer stadium built ".

- You must be completely unaware of the history of the Caps attempts to get a stadium built for a decade WITH THEIR OWN MONEY. The Port Authority wanting a 3-1 swap for land that Kerfoot owns? How much has TFC & Impact got to build their stadiums from public funds? That one is a non-starter. 

 

Footscray: "Just heresay right now so I think everybody should reserve judgement"

- That is the sanest thing said in this whole discussion. Maybe see what the Caps say about it officially before dumping all over them based on third hand rumours? 

 

Ivan: "Do we know for sure he wants to play for Chile or is he just chalking it up to experience?"

- A valid question. We don't know. If he thinks he is good enough to play for Chile at any level perhaps a nice chat with Pedro Morales is in order.

 

Keegan & madmonte: 

 

4 CMNT eligible players signed, paid and training full time with the first team? That is over the quota that the CSA has put in place. Not great but a good start. 

 

Montreal has 6, TFC 7. So I guess that makes them the second and third lowest anywhere. Had Rob Friend signed with us we'd be have more. Had REB & Porter accepted the contracts offered we'd also be higher. They chose to explore other options and I wish them well but you can't blame the Caps for player choices.

 

Do I hear everyone dumping on TFC for demanding 3 young players sign and watching them leave? Do I hear everyone dumping on the Impact because they took so long to start an academy? 

 

 

To finish I'd like to ask a question: What is it you guys expect from the Caps? I want specifics not vague generalities. What exactly is it that you want?

[Keegan]

You have the lowest domestic playing time of any team in the World.  Period.  No one cares that you have 4 players on your roster if they don't play.  Teibert had 4 minutes last night. 

 

Fix that is all we ask.

[football_world]

You have the lowest domestic playing time of any team in the World.  Period.  No one cares that you have 4 players on your roster if they don't play.  Teibert had 4 minutes last night. 

 

Fix that is all we ask.

 

Keegan, it's the manager's perogative.  As much as I want Canadians playing, they need to perform.  If they don't perform, the manager loses his/her job and the fans turn on the team.  I'm for giving spots to Canadian players on our MLS rosters, but they need to work their way in as a starter.

 

The last thing we need is starting Canadians that are performing badly just for the sake that they are Canadian.  None of our Canadian players will improve if they get a "freebie" starting position just because of their nationality.  We give them a huge advantage by giving them a spot on the roster.  From there, they have to prove they are starting material and deserve minutes in a match.

[Lord Bob]

But guys the Whitecaps do so much for Canadian soccer since they joined MLS, like killing their USL W-League team and barely playing a single Canadian for years without even being able to use "winning" as a bad excuse and prioritizing Americans out of NCAA and not having any Canadian first team coaches since Colin Miller got canned and promoting a "national" training centre out at UBC without actually making any agreement to allow the CSA to use it, so Canadian national teams are training out at Burnaby Lake even right now.

[Keegan]

So then just admit that Toronto and Montreal have better academies/development and I'll be happy.  Because Tissot, Morgan, Ouimette, Henry etc. have come up and seen time.  I thought Alderson was really good over the two legs against Toronto.. how can he not get a game?  Adekugbe was good as well in his lone appearance but is nowhere to be seen. 

 

The performances have been there so I feel bad for the guys.  Hopefully Alderson gets out soon.  When Canadians are starting for the Caps it's big news, that's how bad it is. 

[shermanator]

I think most folks here will argue that having players signed and training with the first team means little to the MNT, if these same players are unable to get minutes at the first team level. It's great that Carducci, Adekugbe, and Alderson are all signed, but none of these 3 have seen a lick of action in MLS. Since joining MLS, Vancouver has given very little playing time to Canadians, and it has consistently been below both Montreal, and Toronto. They've played Canadians in 5.3% of MLS action this year, 5.6% in 2013, 0.4% in 2012, and 4.6% in 2011. 

 

http://oot-football.blogspot.ca/2013/12/canadian-content-on-canadian-teams-in.html

 

The club has rated international players over local talent consistently after joining MLS. Why would they sign Mezquida and Fernandez when Caleb Clarke's loan was over in July? Why has Robinson claimed that Alderson will finally break into the first team, when he's made the 18 in 2 of 16 games? Will Adekugbe even see a minute in the 18 after he returns from injury? 

 

What will change this perception around here is to have the Whitecaps stop talking about how they are developing talent, and getting Canadians on the pitch.

[VWFC]

Then explain the contributions to CMNT page?

[Lord Bob]

List of players developed by the Whitecaps in the MLS era who are regulars on the Canadian men's or women's national team:

 

End of list.

 

Teibert is almost a regular on Canada, perhaps, but Floro doesn't call him up, he was developed by the Whitecaps Residency pre-MLS, and he made his first team debut pre-MLS.