2022 Voyageurs Cup

[Unnamed Trialist]

I've seen quite a few posters in the centre of town, they are "papering" the city with promotional material. Also have gotten internet banners appearing. So I do see they are working on it. The point is to get more than 13,000 out, like last match, but I am not sure they'll fill the lower bowl. The fanbase seems disengaged.

If it's 18,000 plus at least it does not look terrible.

The Caps are not going to promote the TFC players, such as the new Italians, but if TFC were smart enough to do so, however that might work; they may get some fans out. Only they may not really be TFC fans.

[RS]

The Whitecaps are expecting their biggest crowd of the season and their largest ever Canadian Championship crowd.

“Excitement has ramped up and Tuesday will be our largest ever crowd for a Canadian Championship match. Although we have already hit a season high in single match tickets, we are continuing to sell between 500 to 1,000 tickets per day,” said Axel Schuster, Whitecaps FC chief executive officer and sporting director. “It’s the Canadian Championship Final and we are going for our first trophy since 2015 so I encourage everyone to get your tickets today.”

More than 18,000 tickets have already been sold in anticipation of the Canadian title tilt. Limited inventory remains in the supporters standing room general admission section. The 'Caps record for attendance in a Canadian Championship match is 19,616 when the club last won the Voyageurs Cup in 2015.

[SpursFlu]

Wow the Whitecaps are actually promoting football and things that actually get football fans excited. Cheap beer and trophies. I'm actually excited for a Whitecaps game. It's been a while 

[Kingston]

Is lower bowl capacity still 27 000?

[Unnamed Trialist]

Is it a bit odd that Caps have a schedule where we get a day's less rest than our rival? 

I realise TFC have to travel, but if you have that advantage of playing at home and the rival travelling, why even it out with a day's less rest?

Question: is the MLS schedule at all flexible to accomodate cup or Concacaf games? Also: was there any reason the final was scheduled precisely for this week, on this day?

[narduch]

50 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Is it a bit odd that Caps have a schedule where we get a day's less rest than our rival? 

I realise TFC have to travel, but if you have that advantage of playing at home and the rival travelling, why even it out with a day's less rest?

Question: is the MLS schedule at all flexible to accomodate cup or Concacaf games? Also: was there any reason the final was scheduled precisely for this week, on this day?

When TFC had their 2018 Champions League run they canceled a few MLS matches. 

In fact Seattle v Vancouver was rescheduled this year too for the same reason 

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

When TFC had their 2018 Champions League run they canceled a few MLS matches. 

In fact Seattle v Vancouver was rescheduled this year too for the same reason 

We are used to the Whitecaps organisation sleepwalking through things, year after year.

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

When TFC had their 2018 Champions League run they canceled a few MLS matches. 

In fact Seattle v Vancouver was rescheduled this year too for the same reason 

But I don't think they've delayed of canceled any for the US Open Cup?

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

We are used to the Whitecaps organisation sleepwalking through things, year after year.

I was wrong, I somehow though TFC was playing this Friday night. So that changes things, TFC is playing then travelling and the Caps do come out with the advantage, with scheduling and travel.

 

[Kent]

On 7/22/2022 at 10:03 AM, Kingston said:

Is lower bowl capacity still 27 000?

According to Wikipedia the lower bowl is 27k, but the capacity for MLS games is only 22k. I guess they must close off some of the lower bowl for a typical MLS game. Would be great if they get enough interest that they open up more of the stadium... provided the extra support isn't enough to stop Vancouver from losing. I want them to be well attended, but I'm still a TFC fan.

[Kingston]

5 minutes ago, Kent said:

According to Wikipedia the lower bowl is 27k, but the capacity for MLS games is only 22k. I guess they must close off some of the lower bowl for a typical MLS game. Would be great if they get enough interest that they open up more of the stadium... provided the extra support isn't enough to stop Vancouver from losing. I want them to be well attended, but I'm still a TFC fan.

Yes, the best scenario is that every stadium in Canada sells our for every game and TFC wins the Canadian Championship.

The second best scenario is that every stadium is sold out and anyone else except Montreal wins.

[Watchmen]

Over 23k now expected tonight:

 

[Kingston]

A quick internet search tells me the Whitecaps are averaging 16 000 this season, so this is a good crowd from that perspective as well.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Kingston said:

A quick internet search tells me the Whitecaps are averaging 16 000 this season, so this is a good crowd from that perspective as well.

The club has been going all out to make it an event. Half price drinks (until the half). Cheap pizza pre-game. T-shirts for the first 15k fans. Discounts on kits. They know the opportunity they have. Now up to the team on the field to send fans home happy.

[SpursFlu]

Beautiful hot day in Vancouver.. 4 sections around the Supporters sold out. Should be a great atmosphere 

[Unnamed Trialist]

After the L1BC final this afternoon, we were speaking with various people who would be in the know about the possible participation of L1BC in next year's Voyageurs Cup.

Some say that the problem for the CSA is that the league is too short, starting in May and going to July. That was then adjusted to read there are too few teams (7 this year). 

Another version is that the CSA wants any participating team to be in a league that starts earlier, so any representative team is ready for a first round. 

Further: there is nothing written in stone on this and that it could all be argued still with the CSA.

My responses:

1-L1Ontario first participated in the Voyageurs Cup when it had 14 teams. However, I don't think it was playing home and away all matches, the schedule was imbalanced. 

2-Next year L1BC will have at least 8, as Nanaimo has been confirmed. As there were other bids, there still could be more accepted, this is not clear yet. 

3-Meaning L1BC could start earlier, since the weather is no impediment. And the season will be longer, perhaps 2 weeks longer.

My personal opinion as a longtime V and original donor to purchase the Cup that we should strive for the broadest participation possible, within financial and logistical reason. And of course I'd love for the new BC champ, TSS, to be able to participate next spring. As they play out of Swangard, have a strong and loyal club following and could draw a decent gate, that would add an extra charm and quality to their presence.

[ted]

34 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

3-Meaning L1BC could start earlier, since the weather is no impediment. And the season will be longer, perhaps 2 weeks longer.

This is what is needed to improve this league and make people like me stop endlessly calling it PCSL 2.0. The current season length is determined (just like the PCSL) by the end of winter league play and the beginning of University preseason. Because this league is still being treated as an afterthought/extra-credit/bonus to other competitions many players have not been available until after the Provincial Cup in May and most University players have to return to school in August.

I think the CSA playing hardball and forcing the issue is actually the way to go. Make participation in the VCup and the theoretical chance of Champions League play the carrot that makes L1BC step up and become something more than a "summer holiday" league. The mind set needs to be flipped for players. VISL, VMSL, varsity teams, will one day be seen as places to train in the "off -season". Maybe not next year or even for several years, but someday.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, ted said:

This is what is needed to improve this league and make people like me stop endlessly calling it PCSL 2.0. The current season length is determined (just like the PCSL) by the end of winter league play and the beginning of University preseason. Because this league is still being treated as an afterthought/extra-credit/bonus to other competitions many players have not been available until after the Provincial Cup in May and most University players have to return to school in August.

I think the CSA playing hardball and forcing the issue is actually the way to go. Make participation in the VCup and the theoretical chance of Champions League play the carrot that makes L1BC step up and become something more than a "summer holiday" league. The mind set needs to be flipped for players. VISL, VMSL, varsity teams, will one day be seen as places to train in the "off -season". Maybe not next year or even for several years, but someday.

I agree there has to be the sort of paradigm shift you are talking about, we have to stop treating the summer league as the filler and reverse the situation. 

I just don't get why the university players have to return in August. Or are you saying they have to start training specifically for U-Sports in August?

In any case, while in BC there are teams that are directly affiliated with University programmes (the team that Varsity fielded today seemed to be from their U-Sports roster, but I forgot to confirm that), I don't think it is so much the case in L1 Ontario or Québec.

We are actually in a situation in BC to be able to host a year-round League One, just throwing this out: a national winter L1 in BC. Guys in L1 in Ontario, Québec, who might accept training winters in BC rather than sitting mostly dormant for months due to weather. Or am I missing something?

Back to the Voyageurs Cup: we learnt today that for many of the L1 clubs in Ont and Québec, not all, the logistics of hosting a V-Cup match is really too much for them and that they need outside support. While others are fine and have staff who can rise to the occasion.

[ted]

13 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I just don't get why the university players have to return in August. Or are you saying they have to start training specifically for U-Sports in August?

NCAA schools are adamant that players return to campus to start pre-season in August and I believe that most CIS schools do as well. The CIS regular season is basically September-October.

 

Quote

We are actually in a situation in BC to be able to host a year-round League One, just throwing this out: a national winter L1 in BC. Guys in L1 in Ontario, Québec, who might accept training winters in BC rather than sitting mostly dormant for months due to weather. Or am I missing something?

This is an interesting idea that could work IMO, but I think they want to harmonize pro soccer in N America.

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, ted said:

NCAA schools are adamant that players return to campus to start pre-season in August and I believe that most CIS schools do as well. The CIS regular season is basically September-October.

 

This is an interesting idea that could work IMO, but I think they want to harmonize pro soccer in N America.

Well we can all agree the season is far too short in NCAA and U-Sports. 

I know of NCAA players who trained all spring, but they were not competing.

About harmonising leagues, it is not a problem for the West Coast to do that, if Feb to November is what they like, it'd be fine. But for the same reason other guys find leagues in their off seasons to stay sharp, a L1 Winter would have the same function. It'd also get the players on the radar of CPL, teams, who would be going into pre-season

You can't develop at all, or even maintain a competitive quality, at anything less than 8 months a year. My son's season was September to June playing  Spain; then they trained in July, often to regroup for the following year and possible age category changes. 

I appreciate the complexity. If the L1s are senior players who are not in university systems, and living more or less in the area where the team is, then you could extend the season both directions. That would also make sense for club continuuity, as university rosters lose the veterans every year and club stability is a problem. L1BC has gotten off the ground with a model that is not the same in Québec and Ontario, with university affiliated clubs, though I am not sure it is the best model going forward.

 

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Well we can all agree the season is far too short in NCAA and U-Sports. 

I know of NCAA players who trained all spring, but they were not competing.

About harmonising leagues, it is not a problem for the West Coast to do that, if Feb to November is what they like, it'd be fine. But for the same reason other guys find leagues in their off seasons to stay sharp, a L1 Winter would have the same function. It'd also get the players on the radar of CPL, teams, who would be going into pre-season

You can't develop at all, or even maintain a competitive quality, at anything less than 8 months a year. My son's season was September to June playing  Spain; then they trained in July, often to regroup for the following year and possible age category changes. 

I appreciate the complexity. If the L1s are senior players who are not in university systems, and living more or less in the area where the team is, then you could extend the season both directions. That would also make sense for club continuuity, as university rosters lose the veterans every year and club stability is a problem. L1BC has gotten off the ground with a model that is not the same in Québec and Ontario, with university affiliated clubs, though I am not sure it is the best model going forward.

 

Yeah, I'm willing to cut BC Soccer a bit of slack - it has sounded like they've faced enormous pushback the entire way trying to get this off the ground, and I suspect that the acceptance of university affiliated teams was more to just get it going.  But, they're going to have to push back against the VMSL, FVSL, and VISL soon - extend the League 1 season and damn the leagues a bit.  That becomes a bit easier to do with an 8th team coming in Nanaimo and more interested, but the plan needs to be laid out that the longer term vision is not a bridge for university players but a proper season.

It's so frustrating to look down the CMNT roster and see how pathetically BC soccer has fallen, while all the managers at the local clubs refuse to change because they think they're doing good work.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

58 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Yeah, I'm willing to cut BC Soccer a bit of slack - it has sounded like they've faced enormous pushback the entire way trying to get this off the ground, ...

At some point maybe you start listening to the concerns of people and adjust your plans accordingly? How likely is a Nanaimo L1BC team to be stronger on the field of play than top VMSL clubs? If the answer is not very, how keen are top Vancouver based players likely to be to do the driving and ferry crossings involved.

[Watchmen]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

At some point maybe you start listening to the concerns of people and adjust your plans accordingly? How likely is a Nanaimo L1BC team to be stronger on the field of play than top VMSL clubs? If the answer is not very, how keen are top Vancouver based players likely to be to do the driving and ferry crossings involved.

For the once/twice a year they'd have to cross, it's unlikely to be a major issue.  You're concerned about the players, but the whole issue has stemmed from clubs wanting to retain their little fiefdoms. They're more concerned about their power than about improving Canadian soccer or producing better players. Take a look at the current national team and then try telling me BC soccer is doing a good job, and then explain to me why they're unwilling to change or try something new.

[Aird25]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

At some point maybe you start listening to the concerns of people and adjust your plans accordingly? How likely is a Nanaimo L1BC team to be stronger on the field of play than top VMSL clubs? If the answer is not very, how keen are top Vancouver based players likely to be to do the driving and ferry crossings involved.

Nanaimo has pretty decent soccer. Facing VMSL clubs will only improve that

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

3 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

For the once/twice a year they'd have to cross, it's unlikely to be a major issue...

There are also teams in Victoria and Kamloops as well and you didn't answer the question of whether a Nanaimo team with locally based players is likely to ever be as good as what the top end of the VMSL has to offer?

Have you ever been involved with running an amateur soccer club? If you are dealing with people who have regular jobs and are in relationships or raising a young family anything beyond an hour driving time starts to be an issue on how big a hole it blows in their weekend and once you are over two hours good luck.

You are going to get the players that are willing/able to do the travel for something like this (hence why University and youth Academy teams are a good fit) but that won't necessarily be the best players that are out there. So ultimately you wind up with PCSL 2.0 and have reinvented the wheel.