2019 Women's World Cup

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 6/17/2019 at 3:42 AM, nstarsfan said:

I watched the US feed of the game.  It started with a pre-game where Heather O'Reilly was arrogant.  (She's toned it down since).  Their non-US announcers raised the issue that perhaps the later goal celebrations were too much.  Their American counterparts were defensive.  I think it's obvious that since almost anyone who is associated with the US Soccer program defended it that this is the culture they create. 

I remember being disappointed seeing Rapinoe flip off the ref in one of the WWC games in Winnipeg.  No surprise she was the most blatant with her celebration.

It's up to the coaches and the refs to set the tone for what is and isn't acceptable. Solo got booted for making unsportsmanlike comments after a game but this is merely joy.  Sure Jill.

I think we're really only complaining about the Rapinoe and Morgan celebrations.  I think Rapinoe has shown she can be a punk.  As for Morgan, I don't really get a player counting out her goals.  It shows the players are very concerned about their individual statistics.  Again, I think this is a culture problem. 

I think those from other countries have a different view.  To them this is an international tournament and it matters how you represent yourself.  For the US, that is not a concern as is evident by Trump.  They are focused on themselves.

They are a great team but I can't admire them.  For me, conducting your self with class has always been important.  I found it very disappointing.

As an aside, the lineup they fielded today is the one they should have had out against Thailand.  The starting 11 could have played today.  I think they may lose to France which would be karma.

The US is a virtually all-white team steeped in upper middle class white privilege and it shows. Then Rapinoe has the gall to not sing the anthem, as if she is not living in the absolutely best country for people like her. 

[rkomar]

7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The US is a virtually all-white team steeped in upper middle class white privilege and it shows. Then Rapinoe has the gall to not sing the anthem, as if she is not living in the absolutely best country for people like her. 

So she's thinking of those who don't have the privileges she has, and is protesting the situation.  I don't see that as having gall.  She's just trying to make things better, even if things are pretty good for her.

[Unnamed Trialist]

27 minutes ago, rkomar said:

So she's thinking of those who don't have the privileges she has, and is protesting the situation.  I don't see that as having gall.  She's just trying to make things better, even if things are pretty good for her.

It could be, I am not fully aware of the circumstances. Did not stop her from celebrating like a fool off her meds for a late irrelevant goal vs. Thailand--if that is the attitude, she'd do better to just sing the damn thing and stop being hypocritical about it. 

You are all aware that the US national anthem celebrates killing Canadians, don't you?

Edited June 18, 2019 by Unnamed Trialist

[Patrick]

28 minutes ago, rkomar said:

So she's thinking of those who don't have the privileges she has, and is protesting the situation.  I don't see that as having gall.  She's just trying to make things better, even if things are pretty good for her.

When you listen to USWNT players speak in interviews it's like they have a PR rep feeding them lines about "doing it for the next generation"  or "we all think about the young players, not us", but their actions scream self-centred (insert not nice term) and I think the second face is their real one.  They are the white suburban princesses of blue state America.  They're cookie cutter make-up wearing barbies complaining about pay (some complaints justified, some just delusional), about the turf they play on, and about the patriarchy keeping them down.  They have no self-awareness, no acknowledgement that their pay-to-play success is part of the problem.  They get right upset if anyone suggests that the lack of African American players on the team is due to anything but the current players being the best.  Yeah, Megan Rapinoe might be fighting the good fight but if you have a good hard look at her, her actions celebrating goals, her choices in appearance, and her forms of protest, I can't help but think she is much more interested in Megan Rapinoe than whatever oppressed people she says she is supporting.

And I'll take it "There" - Rapinoe is a lesbian.  How do we know?  Because she tells us, and tells us, and tells us.  She is so utterly wrapped up in herself that she thinks we all want to know all about her, too.  Did you know she's the first lesbian to do an SI swimsuit shoot?  Don't worry, she's got her people telling you that. 

Do you know who else is a lesbian?  Christine Sinclair.  I have followed her career since she was 16 and I didn't know that until recently.  You know why?  Because she's never made it the cornerstone of who she is.  Frankly, I can go down the US roster and tell you personal details on most of them, but I couldn't tell you which Canadian player swings which way and frankly I prefer that low key approach.  I am happy for Christine Sinclair, as far as I knowshe's married, she has a life outside soccer, she deserves that, but I don't need to know the details to appreciate her skills on the field.

Frankly, lesbians in womens sports aren't shocking.  They have been accepted for decades in Western countries.  Being an out lesbian today isn't brave.  When a man comes out in sport, that's brave.  But the patriarchy...

[sloth8]

Group C has definitely been the most entertaining group so far. I thought Australia had shot themselves in the foot after that opening loss to Italy, but credit them for fighting back against Brazil and getting the necessary goal difference against Jamaica to move them into second spot. They now have a very winnable match against Norway. Definitely a more favourable draw for them since Brazil will likely be playing France. Italy, meanwhile, top the group and are rewarded with a match against Nigeria or China.

[Sport Shaman]

I wasn't completely sold on the penalty call. It seemed that the Italian player had a pretty good line on the ball and was a bit quicker than the Brazilian and then the Brazilian seemed to turn into the Italian and managed to crash into her shoulder with the predictable result of going down and making a meal of it. Pretty much how you would expect that team to get the foul call in the box. Not looking for an argument here but I was not 100% convinced by how that went down.

[Sport Shaman]

Interesting point. A draw would have still put Italy in first place and Brazil in third but had it mattered more in the group standings it would have been a bitter pill to swallow for Italy and maybe also Australia, considering that they tied Brazil on +/- and only finished second because they scored one more goal against Jamaica than Brazil did.

[rkomar]

The view from the camera behind the goal line made it look like the defender jumped in front and then hip-checked the forward.  I was also doubtful about the call, but changed my mind after seeing that.

[Sport Shaman]

2 minutes ago, rkomar said:

The view from the camera behind the goal line made it look like the defender jumped in front and then hip-checked the forward.  I was also doubtful about the call, but changed my mind after seeing that.

Either way it was a judgement call and a close one at that.

[rkomar]

1 minute ago, Sport Shaman said:

Either way it was a judgement call and a close one at that.

Yes, I agree.  I've been gaining more confidence in that particular referee as the tournament goes on, so I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.  She seems to have a good handle on the games.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, Patrick said:

When you listen to USWNT players speak in interviews it's like they have a PR rep feeding them lines about "doing it for the next generation"  or "we all think about the young players, not us", but their actions scream self-centred (insert not nice term) and I think the second face is their real one.  They are the white suburban princesses of blue state America.  They're cookie cutter make-up wearing barbies complaining about pay (some complaints justified, some just delusional), about the turf they play on, and about the patriarchy keeping them down.  They have no self-awareness, no acknowledgement that their pay-to-play success is part of the problem.  They get right upset if anyone suggests that the lack of African American players on the team is due to anything but the current players being the best.  Yeah, Megan Rapinoe might be fighting the good fight but if you have a good hard look at her, her actions celebrating goals, her choices in appearance, and her forms of protest, I can't help but think she is much more interested in Megan Rapinoe than whatever oppressed people she says she is supporting.

And I'll take it "There" - Rapinoe is a lesbian.  How do we know?  Because she tells us, and tells us, and tells us.  She is so utterly wrapped up in herself that she thinks we all want to know all about her, too.  Did you know she's the first lesbian to do an SI swimsuit shoot?  Don't worry, she's got her people telling you that. 

Do you know who else is a lesbian?  Christine Sinclair.  I have followed her career since she was 16 and I didn't know that until recently.  You know why?  Because she's never made it the cornerstone of who she is.  Frankly, I can go down the US roster and tell you personal details on most of them, but I couldn't tell you which Canadian player swings which way and frankly I prefer that low key approach.  I am happy for Christine Sinclair, as far as I knowshe's married, she has a life outside soccer, she deserves that, but I don't need to know the details to appreciate her skills on the field.

Frankly, lesbians in womens sports aren't shocking.  They have been accepted for decades in Western countries.  Being an out lesbian today isn't brave.  When a man comes out in sport, that's brave.  But the patriarchy...

You could be mostly right, but if you have not experienced some form of discrimination of an arbitrary nature for reasons of difference, you should not be posting such stuff. And if you have, you'd know better. There are lots of places in Canada, probably a majority, where you cannot be an out lesbian with any kind of comfort at all. 

Watched Kerr score 4 today, all needed (it was 2-1 and S Africa attacking when she got the third), goals to ensure a classification. Not even the first was celebrated as childishly as Rapinoe et al with their umpteenth for the team.

[Patrick]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You could be mostly right, but if you have not experienced some form of discrimination of an arbitrary nature for reasons of difference, you should not be posting such stuff. And if you have, you'd know better. There are lots of places in Canada, probably a majority, where you cannot be an out lesbian with any kind of comfort at all.

Thanks for your wisdom but I stand quite firmly behind what I wrote.  In athletics there is no bravery in being out if you're a woman.  You know what takes courage these day?  Being a female Christian athlete.  Apparently you're a homophobe if you are a Christian and don't want to support Pride by wearing a Pride themed jersey.  I remember the outcry over Kendall Waston, as well.  Believe it or not, you can have a religious opinion and not hate LGBTQ people.  

[RJB]

2 hours ago, Patrick said:

 You know what takes courage these day?  Being a female Christian athlete. 

 

12 hours ago, Patrick said:

Being an out lesbian today isn't brave. 

Give me a break.  This is so unintelligent, misinformed, and disconnected from the reality of the world.

When privilege starts to look like equality, it's often perceived as oppression.  There is a lot of ignorance in what you're saying here.  Next are you going to try to say that Christmas is under attack? 

Whether you like the US team or not, there sexuality is completely irrelevant.  What is relevant is that they are doing all of the same things that Christine Sinclair and her teammates are doing, and that is realizing that they have to leave the game in a better place than where it was when they started.  You know, the campsite rule.  You call it self-serving and self-promotion, but really it is integral to making things better for girls and women around the world. 

Patrick, I'm sure that your life is so much more challenging than anyone else, but perhaps you should stick to watching Bill O'Reilly and telling yourself what a bunch of snowflakes everyone else but you is.  Spare us from this tripe.

 

 

[Patrick]

8 hours ago, RJB said:

When privilege starts to look like equality, it's often perceived as oppression.  There is a lot of ignorance in what you're saying here.  Next are you going to try to say that Christmas is under attack? 

When was the last time a woman was kicked off the USWNT for being a lesbian?  And for being Christian?  Equality mean equality, right?

8 hours ago, RJB said:

there sexuality is completely irrelevant.  What is relevant is that they are doing all of the same things that Christine Sinclair and her teammates are doing, and that is realizing that they have to leave the game in a better place than where it was when they started.  You know, the campsite rule.  You call it self-serving and self-promotion, but really it is integral to making things better for girls and women around the world. 

Their sexuality is irrelevant, and yet Megan Rapinoe can't shut up about it.  She is so oppressed for being a lesbian!!  What Sinclair is doing is being a human being who happens to be a lesbian and the best female soccer player the world has seen.  She inspires girls, and she and her teammates have actually been part of building a better program in a country where just 20 years ago people on forums like this didn't want to fund the program.  Rapinoe?  Not so much.

 

8 hours ago, RJB said:

Patrick, I'm sure that your life is so much more challenging than anyone else, but perhaps you should stick to watching Bill O'Reilly and telling yourself what a bunch of snowflakes everyone else but you is.  Spare us from this tripe.

Spare me your cheap personal attacks.  You know nothing about me, and your reading comprehension is lacking.

[Admin]

If you guys want to talk about this stuff, do it on Reddit. 

 

[RJB]

29 minutes ago, admin said:

If you guys want to talk about this stuff, do it on Reddit. 

 

Agreed. I took the bait. 

Looking forward to tomorrow, seeing us face our toughest challenge of the tournament so far.  

[sloth8]

An interesting article about attendance numbers for this World Cup. Of note, total ticket sales are just over 1 million while the 2015 edition had 1.3 million.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/18/womens-world-cup-empty-seats-fifa-france-2019

Also the David Squires' cartoon re: VAR in the France v. Nigeria match is great:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2019/jun/18/david-squires-on-the-womens-world-cup-goals-and-good-old-var

Edited June 19, 2019 by sloth8

[Patrick]

VAR.  What more than I can say?  Scotland was robbed.  Once again poor officiating has hurt this tournament.  The women deserve better than being a training ground for unqualified female referees.

[Patrick]

3 minutes ago, Lofty said:

I think that overall the refs have been very good. Certainly not obviously worse that the refs at the men's World Cup, although those matches are harder to officiate. Pretty much all of the problems have been with VAR but I think more with policy rather than actual decisions.

You are only looking at it from the players' point of view. They don't have to compete with the men. How do female officials gain top flight experience if not at the Women's World Cup? This is the pinnacle of the game for female players and I fully support it being the pinnacle of the game for female officials too. 

I don't think the officiating has been that great, but my opinion is informed as much by past officiating, say a certain game at the 2012 Olympics, as these particular matches. But we can disagree.  On your second point,  yes, I am totally taking the player's point of view.  They work hard to get to this level and they deserve the best available officiating, not the best available female refereeing.  I think perhaps the intrusiveness of the VAR is an attempt to back up some the less qualified officials.  As to how female referees get top flight experience?  By refereeing in top flight leagues.  There are female assistant referees in the English Premier League.  There is nothing stopping female referees from working anywhere, even a men's World Cup.  I don't think the WWC should be a training ground for anyone.  I know some of the English players agree, at least based on their comments regarding Super League officiating.

Believe me, I want more women referees, I want my own daughter to referee, but the players deserve the best officiating possible and this rule prevents that.

[Sinc_Tanc_Olympic_Action]

Wow... I'm surprised by user name and password works because it's been forever since I logged in.  You can kind of tell that even my user name is outdated.  But whatever.  I'll keep it for memories.

Does anyone have any predictions for Canada vs Netherlands tomorrow?  I think as much as everyone saying that Netherlands will be a tough opponent, Canada is truly the better team.  I hope that they can show it tomorrow.  I predict a Canada win like 1-0.  Looking forward to hearing what everyone else thinks.

Also, the commentators (Kyle, Matheson, etc.) are saying that it is more advantageous for Canada to finish the group because being first means playing Japan, and being second means playing Sweden who they think is tougher than Japan.  I am not sure if I agree with that given that Japan is ranked higher than Sweden and that Canada has had better luck beating Sweden in recent years.  Again, I look forward to hearing your thoughts.  The whole purpose of a discussion is to hear different opinions and predictions.  So don't be afraid to say that you have a different opinion!

[RJB]

14 minutes ago, Sinc_Tanc_Olympic_Action said:

Also, the commentators (Kyle, Matheson, etc.) are saying that it is more advantageous for Canada to finish the group because being first means playing Japan, and being second means playing Sweden who they think is tougher than Japan.

If Canada goes into the game thinking that a draw will be best because then they'll finish second is the type of thing that cases Fate to step in and have USA lose and finish second.   There are no guarantees, they are both opponents that can beat Canada. 

5 hours ago, Lofty said:

1. Female players are MUCH better now than they have ever been. And so are female refs.

2. VAR has already been used in England for men's matches (amid much controversy)! It isn't for backing up weak refs!

3. Officials work hard too. You could make the same argument with female players: let them compete with the men and they will make it if they are good enough. The reality is that if female officials have to always compete with the men, opportunities will be extremely limited. I'd support your POV if there were very few good female officials but that is clearly not the case.

This is such a superb response.  We can't watch this tournament and expect it to be a carbon-copy of World Cup Russia.  This has been a superb tournament so far with a higher standard than ever.  And we should expect that 2023 will be even better.  It's such a great era for Women's soccer.  And the refereeing has been fine if you ask me.  Any issues with VAR are VAR issues and perhaps we could blame the evolution of that rather than blaming female refs. 

 

[mtlfan]

13 hours ago, Patrick said:

VAR.  What more than I can say?  Scotland was robbed.  Once again poor officiating has hurt this tournament.  The women deserve better than being a training ground for unqualified female referees.

It was a penalty (the ball moved forward and the player was tackled thus the call). keeper broke the rule thus the retake,  Scotland BLEW a 3 goal lead. They must blame themselves.

[Patrick]

1 hour ago, mtlfan said:

It was a penalty (the ball moved forward and the player was tackled thus the call). keeper broke the rule thus the retake,  Scotland BLEW a 3 goal lead. They must blame themselves.

Scotland was robbed:

The Premier League has VAR, but they're not going to allow this.  And I doubt they are gong to make their ARs wait 10 seconds while the video ref calls the off-sides.  As I said, this WWC is using VAR at an incredibly intrusive level.  Why?  Because the refereeing is not up to the task.  Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong, but if you do please also tell me why VAR is being used like this at the WWC.  Is this now some minor league test tournament suited for experimental rules?

[dyslexic nam]

We had some good moments today but there was a lot of sloppy play and way too many hopeful long balls that didn’t really have much chance of finding a target. I guess a 2-1 loss against Netherlands is respectable, but I was not impressed with the team today.   On the bright side, Sinclair got one goal closer to the record. 

[The Ref]

5 hours ago, Patrick said:

Scotland was robbed:

The Premier League has VAR, but they're not going to allow this.  And I doubt they are gong to make their ARs wait 10 seconds while the video ref calls the off-sides.  As I said, this WWC is using VAR at an incredibly intrusive level.  Why?  Because the refereeing is not up to the task.  Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong, but if you do please also tell me why VAR is being used like this at the WWC.  Is this now some minor league test tournament suited for experimental rules?

I would say that the refs at the VAR booth are not up to task either.  It is absurd to referee a game from TV screens.