Vancouver Whitecaps 2019 Season

[The Beaver 2.0]

9 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I like the keeper and CBs.  If the price for Godoy is within reason, then they should sign him but then they'll have to up Henry's contract.  Cornelius is still honing his craft yet I like his upside so keeping Godoy here might help his growth as well as complement Henry's play.  The Tuinisian guy is a red shirt x factor for next season.

I've said it all year long that this midfield needs a big time box to box horse/"8" to take the team to the next level.  To me, Erice, Teibert, and the since departed Felipe are all the same type of linking, keep-it-rolling possession player with varying weaknesses contrasting them (it's no surprise that the Brazilian is doing really well in that type of role with DC United at the moment).  The overlooked part of In Beom's game is his shot from distance so getting that other 8 will support that facet of the attack while helping the deeper lying mid and back line.

Levis is a cheap, domestic back up to Adnan so for me he stays.  He can still do a job here but he himself might want to seek a situation where he can play more.  I'm not a fan of PC so he can go:  he's strictly a wind up artist who can't pass accurately.  Rose is strictly a back up, at best.

With regards to the others, I unfortunately see another big churn of the roster instead of tweaks, so continuity suffers.  However, that also plays into the buying time, spin handbook of "the lads need time to gel."

I totally agree about the "box-to-box horse". I feel this team has needed such a player since inception.  Or, they need three players to fill that role, with plenty of intelligent interplay between them.  I am thinking of LAFC when I say this.  I like Reyna as an attacking midfielder, to be honest, interchanging positionally with Inbeom, but adding a true #8 to this mix would be brilliant.  I think.  

I am fine with keeping Levis, as you suggest, and getting rid of PC seems wise.  But you are right when you say next year will likely be a brand-new-fresh-start-chapter, with lots of new players, a scouting department, a new sporting director et al.  Hard to see how this year was an intelligent step forward, to be frank.  But if everyone can learn from the (ample) mistakes at every level, then maybe this club will finally commence their journey in the right direction.

[BearcatSA]

A totally wasted season stuck at the same level.  The supporters will now debate about potential sporting directors, just as the club had hoped with this announcement a few weeks' back.  This organization is top 5 in this league in marketing spin. Well played!

[Big_M]

Writing the obituary for Vancouver Whitecaps 2019 season | Matchday Central

[Bison44]

What an idiot!! Bangoura and vanuta were good players?  The caps splashed their Davies windfall around??  Heads are rolling??  Didnt Lenarduzzi get a sideways move?   Try a little harder next time Doyle.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

11 hours ago, Bison44 said:

What an idiot!! Bangoura and vanuta were good players?  The caps splashed their Davies windfall around??  Heads are rolling??  Didnt Lenarduzzi get a sideways move?   Try a little harder next time Doyle.  

I don't think that is fair. He says Bangoura had La Liga experience, Montero a good rep in MLS, and that Vanuta was also from a team with an upside. That is all true. He never said these players worked for Caps, only that on paper the team looked promising. He is right.

Heads--namely players'--will roll, also correct.

Agreed they did not spend Davies money. 

And do not agree that Lenarduzzi has been moved sideways. An ambassador role is definitely an honorary pre-retirement position and takes him fully out of decision-making.

[SthMelbRed]

6 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

And do not agree that Lenarduzzi has been moved sideways. An ambassador role is definitely an honorary pre-retirement position and takes him fully out of decision-making.

Bobby will be 65 at his next birthday. He's essentially been given a bridging position to take him to standard retirement age, followed by an emeritus role commensurate with his vital contributions to the club, and Canadian football, over 4 decades.

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Bobby will be 65 at his next birthday. He's essentially been given a bridging position to take him to standard retirement age, followed by an emeritus role commensurate with his vital contributions to the club, and Canadian football, over 4 decades.

I was told this was in the cards by a long time Caps employee sometime in late July. 

[Bison44]

13 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I don't think that is fair. He says Bangoura had La Liga experience, Montero a good rep in MLS, and that Vanuta was also from a team with an upside. That is all true. He never said these players worked for Caps, only that on paper the team looked promising. He is right.

Heads--namely players'--will roll, also correct.

Agreed they did not spend Davies money. 

And do not agree that Lenarduzzi has been moved sideways. An ambassador role is definitely an honorary pre-retirement position and takes him fully out of decision-making.

Well I am sure you are paying more attention to the WC than I am.  But the success rate of the new players brought in seems very low.  Boungoura, Vanuta, Erice, Giro all were pretty underwhelming.   From the games I have seen  Crepeau, Inbeom and Adnan would be the 3 newcomers that would be worth keeping.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

28 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Well I am sure you are paying more attention to the WC than I am.  But the success rate of the new players brought in seems very low.  Boungoura, Vanuta, Erice, Giro all were pretty underwhelming.   From the games I have seen  Crepeau, Inbeom and Adnan would be the 3 newcomers that would be worth keeping.  

I agree. 

Erice is an odd case, I can comment as I paid a bit of attention to the Spanish 2nd division. When he left Albacete he was their captain and they were in first, in a direct promotion spot, when they were not amongst the top 6-8 favourites. He was considered essential to their success, in fact they never lost all 1st half of the season when he played. 

So you might want to wonder if he is being used right, or if MDS scouted him properly, since you cannot go from to the top of Spanish 2nd to a lost and rather useless role in MLS that quickly unless something else is going on.

[shorty]

UT, is it possibly due to other factors, such as style of play?  I have heard other players comment on the physicality of the North American game, ie  whereas the players are not as technical for the most part they are much faster and athletic, and they close down much more quickly and aggressively on the whole.  From what I've watched of Erice, this might also be a factor.  The giveaway against NYC was a case in point.  He lets the ball run across his body expecting to shake the first player pressing, but seems surprised to lose it to the second player.  (And although it was a square ball under a bit of pressure, he did not remonstrate Nerwinski at all, which could be good graces but I read it as taking ownership for the turnover) Not having watched much if any Spanish D2, but having watched enough European football generally, I wonder whether he is given a little more time and avoids turning the ball over if that play were not in MLS.  What do you think?  Although I can't think of other particular plays, it seems to me Erice being pressed into turnovers is something I have seen a fair bit of this year.

My suspicion is that some scouting in the MLS assumes (erroneously) that technical skill will always rise to the top when surrounded by players without the same chops.  I think technical skill without sufficient speed and strength to support it, though, is not as much of an advantage as one would think in NA.  Thoughts?

[The Beaver 2.0]

6 hours ago, shorty said:

UT, is it possibly due to other factors, such as style of play?  I have heard other players comment on the physicality of the North American game, ie  whereas the players are not as technical for the most part they are much faster and athletic, and they close down much more quickly and aggressively on the whole.  From what I've watched of Erice, this might also be a factor.  The giveaway against NYC was a case in point.  He lets the ball run across his body expecting to shake the first player pressing, but seems surprised to lose it to the second player.  (And although it was a square ball under a bit of pressure, he did not remonstrate Nerwinski at all, which could be good graces but I read it as taking ownership for the turnover) Not having watched much if any Spanish D2, but having watched enough European football generally, I wonder whether he is given a little more time and avoids turning the ball over if that play were not in MLS.  What do you think?  Although I can't think of other particular plays, it seems to me Erice being pressed into turnovers is something I have seen a fair bit of this year.

My suspicion is that some scouting in the MLS assumes (erroneously) that technical skill will always rise to the top when surrounded by players without the same chops.  I think technical skill without sufficient speed and strength to support it, though, is not as much of an advantage as one would think in NA.  Thoughts?

Yeah, I was wondering the same. Erice has been caught out like this several times this year, a few such times resulting in goals like the one versus NYFC.  Is the game that much faster and athletic in MLS? Jeffrey, what say you?

[Unnamed Trialist]

I am surprised, because I watch Spanish 2nd a lot, often live, and I think there is as much or more pressure on the ball. For me, MLS does not close down quickly compared to Spanish 2nd.

And maybe German too. I was at Dynamo Dresden-Sankt Pauli last Saturday (amazing match, great fan experience), and same thing, for me it was like MLS but positionally more rigourous and also, better pressure on the ball (though some very lax defending on the back lines, some clumsy passing, and mediocre goalkeeping).

Albacete was not a really finesse team, it was more of a grinding side, and Erice was its backbone. So go figure. I don't have a good explanation. Lots of wins by a single goal. Maybe he needs some cultural adjustment still, or expects teammates to be in different places, I am not sure. All I am saying: on paper that looked like a good signing but I do agree that with him on the bench and more flash from the Korean in that holding spot moving out, the team looks better.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Unnamed Trialist

[Big_M]

central midfielder, lots of travel, home field artificial..turning 33 for him its just too demanding physically

[shorty]

Interesting, thanks UT. I wonder if there’s a subtle difference to be made between hard, tactical team pressing that one would see typically in European teams and hard, less organized pressing or maybe pressing with abandon. Whether it’s teammates or opponents I agree Erice seems to expect people where they aren’t and vice versa. Perhaps it’s a rigidity thing, and when scouting we need to find players who have proven adaptable in different styles and contexts of play. Just speculating of course. 

[BearcatSA]

Felipe's renaissance in one of the two holding mids spots for DC United is one to note.  He wasn't very good here under two different gaffers so perhaps his personal issues as well as life of the west coast simply didn't suit him.  

[narduch]

Not really a perfect example, but Terrence Boyd was a flop for TFC and he is currently tearing it up in the 3rd Bundesliga.

[red card]

MLS doesn't close down players as quickly as Euro leagues do - certainly not the backline and certainly don't do it well as a team.

But when one does try to close down a player, it can be unexpected times with more physicality. 

The other factor is that the other players aren't in the spot that players like Erice expects them to get him out of a press. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Felipe's renaissance in one of the two holding mids spots for DC United is one to note.  He wasn't very good here under two different gaffers so perhaps his personal issues as well as life of the west coast simply didn't suit him.  

I think if we are to be objective, the style of play, tactics and results in terms of what you see and what you get are actually similar between Robinson and MDS. I do not believe the latter has it in him to renew or redo what we already have, sorry to say.

[BearcatSA]

Boy, that was a brutal match to watch.

[Club Linesman]

Caps started 6 Canadians tonight in LA.  Making the game even more enjoyable to watch than it already was going to be.  2-2 in the 63rd   Ricketts scores to make it 3-2!

Kudos to dos Santos for giving that many Canadians a run out.  Scorers are all Canucks. Bair. Henry. Ricketts.

[Club Linesman]

Was just about to say what a beast Bair Is and then he goes down injured.  Hopefully short term. He is the same size as Zlatan except he can run.  Yup he substituted off. Too bad.  It would have been nice to see him play the final game.

[Big_M]

Nice match..7 goals

Canadians score 3 of 4

Levis pulled out at half

Crepeau at fault on 2nd

[red card]

Lutz Pfannenstiel managing director of sports at Fortuna Düsseldorf might be someone the Caps may want to look at: 

Lutz Pfannenstiel has to stop and think for a moment when asked about his favorite former club and city. “Vancouver was my favorite,” Pfannenstiel finally says. “I had options earlier to work in MLS, but one day, a return to Vancouver would be top of my list if I ever work in North America again.” 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/manuelveth/2019/10/03/lutz-pfannenstiel-building-long-term-success-on-a-budget-at-fortuna-dsseldorf/#42eec52c2912

[Big_M]

Whitecaps FC announce first roster moves ahead of 2020

The club exercised the 2020 contract options for right back Jake Nerwinski, as well as forwards Yordy Reyna and Tosaint Ricketts, and now have a total of 18 players under contract for next season. Players who were already under contract for 2020 include goalkeepers Maxime Crepeau, Thomas Hasal, and Zac MacMath, centre backs Derek Cornelius and Jasser Khmiri, full backs Ali Adnan and Georges Mukumbilwa, midfielders Michael Baldisimo, Simon Colyn, Jon Erice, Inbeom Hwang, Andy Rose, and Russell Teibert, as well as forwards Theo Bair and Fredy Montero.

 

 

If these 18 are returning its gonna be another mediocre squad

[The Beaver 2.0]

On 10/17/2019 at 5:17 PM, Big_M said:

Whitecaps FC announce first roster moves ahead of 2020

The club exercised the 2020 contract options for right back Jake Nerwinski, as well as forwards Yordy Reyna and Tosaint Ricketts, and now have a total of 18 players under contract for next season. Players who were already under contract for 2020 include goalkeepers Maxime Crepeau, Thomas Hasal, and Zac MacMath, centre backs Derek Cornelius and Jasser Khmiri, full backs Ali Adnan and Georges Mukumbilwa, midfielders Michael Baldisimo, Simon Colyn, Jon Erice, Inbeom Hwang, Andy Rose, and Russell Teibert, as well as forwards Theo Bair and Fredy Montero.

 

 

If these 18 are returning its gonna be another mediocre squad

We need a massive upgrade in midfield. Maybe the young turks will grow to be studs, but that will take some time. I am fine keeping Rusty, but the only midfielder here who helps us know is Inbeom.  Erice needs to go, as does Andy Rose.  Not sure we'll see Montero return. I am pretty happy with the backline, but I hope we can add Godoy too.  Saw something from MDS where he says we need five positions filled, big time.  Curious to see how this plays out.