Canada vs New Zealand - March 24, 2018 - Friendly - PRE-match thread

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Well there you go, good prices from London, but watch, that being Easter week they may go quickly. Trains are not going to get you close to San Pedro de Pinatar. I just looked, there are local buses direct though very slow, almost three hours. My thought was to rent a car, it is the easiest option and I am pretty sure they are reasonable down there. And more so if shared. Would be less than an hour drive.

We don't know game time but I imagine midday, or mid afternoon, to avoid playing under lights. My provisional idea would be to get to Alicante airport early same day and then drive down. My best options are returning the Sunday from Alicante, so stay a night.

It would be great if a few of us could meet up.

Is s Canadian drivers license valid in Spain?

[Unnamed Trialist]

50 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

Is s Canadian drivers license valid in Spain?

If you are not a resident, of course. Only if you are a resident of a country are you required to get a local license. 

I drove here for twenty years with my Canadian license, 17 of those illegally. Then I finally broke down and got my Spanish license. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

5 hours ago, dsqpr said:

I'm glad we are at least playing but "behind closed doors" means "training match" to me, rather than "friendly", per se.

It will be an international "A" friendly.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

It will be an international "A" friendly.

Oh good, we'll get to see top refs from La Liga, another reason to not miss this one 

[Obinna]

7 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

I'd honestly rather play a worse team in a legitimate friendly. At this point everything should be with the goal of getting our boys used to playing "CONCACAF soccer" for when it matters....crazy heat, hostile atmosphere, bad conditions, etc....

So naturally the CSA gets us a closed door match in Europe.

Hopefully this is the exception and not the norm.

Also, I wonder if a Euro camp is easier to organize in March than a domestic camp? The start of MLS being in early in the month may pose a challenge?

[Gian-Luca]

9 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

I'd honestly rather play a worse team in a legitimate friendly. At this point everything should be with the goal of getting our boys used to playing "CONCACAF soccer" for when it matters....crazy heat, hostile atmosphere, bad conditions, etc....

If it's going to be a game that most Canadians can't attend, then yes, I agree with you.

But as I was starting to think that the Herdman hiring had pushed things back so that we wouldn't play any games until the summer, I somewhat relieved we will finally be playing a game again for the first time in half a year.

[Ansem]

 

[Ansem]

Can we talk tactics instead of psychology? I'm not liking this kind of talk

 

[hamiltonfan]

9 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Can we talk tactics instead of psychology? I'm not liking this kind of talk

 

This is Herdman. You all would find a personal survey he asked all players to complete comical. This was sent to players to complete, with a deadline, shortly after his intro letter.

#WNT

[Rheo]

You do realize that he has mentioned tactics and psychology right?  Also the psychology aspect was specifically brought up by players he's had talks with.  News articles contain a lot more information that tweets do normally

From Toronto Star https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2018/02/01/herdman-lays-out-early-canadian-soccer-blueprint.html

• Herdman says he has already been in contact with some players to outline his vision and get their feedback. Some areas that need improvement based on those discussions, he said, are sports science and the mental part of the game.
• Next, Herdman plans to analyze the team’s tactical play in detail, focusing on the last seven games. 

[Zem]

34 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Can we talk tactics instead of psychology? I'm not liking this kind of talk

Why? Psychology is incredibly important in sports, and we spend half our time on this forum talking about how CMNT players crack under the pressure of expectations and playing in hostile environments and whining about how players don't take the national team seriously.

There's literally nothing wrong with him discussing his plans and ideas in that regard, we'll probably hear about tactics in time and we'll see it on the pitch in March regardless.

[Gian-Luca]

"I think when you go into first camp like this, one of the first things is to really understand what their purpose for playing is.  I've got to understand that. And get them to reflect on that, because moving forward, if their purposes isn't very clear about what we are trying to achieve here, then they can't be a part of it. It's got to be that clear about what we want."

That sounds like he's not calling players to invite them to play for their country but summoning them to be interrogated. Also there's an air of exclusion in this quote rather than inclusion, which for a country that needs to grow its player pool and team depth, is not necessarily the philosophy that I think needs to be taken.

[Kent]

12 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

"I think when you go into first camp like this, one of the first things is to really understand what their purpose for playing is.  I've got to understand that. And get them to reflect on that, because moving forward, if their purposes isn't very clear about what we are trying to achieve here, then they can't be a part of it. It's got to be that clear about what we want."

That sounds like he's not calling players to invite them to play for their country but summoning them to be interrogated. Also there's an air of exclusion in this quote rather than inclusion, which for a country that needs to grow its player pool and team depth, is not necessarily the philosophy that I think needs to be taken.

I don’t think this is about excluding players, I think it’s about focusing players. Maybe I am reading into this but if I think about how that conversation would go it seems like a motivational thing to get out of your players. I have only played at an amateur level (cue the Herdman is an amateur comments) but I think of it like asking players why they come to practice. If it’s because they have to, then they are just doing their time, but if it’s because they want to get better and win then they need to work hard in those practices and come prepared, etc.

With pros they could have different motivations. Take the country forward, leave a legacy for themselves, put themselves in the shop window and increase their value. If he can point out to them that the best way to do those things is to work together to help the team get results then maybe he’ll have a more focused team all pulling in the same direction.

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 hour ago, hamiltonfan said:

This is Herdman. You all would find a personal survey he asked all players to complete comical. This was sent to players to complete, with a deadline, shortly after his intro letter.

Didn't seem to hurt Herb Brooks in 1980

[hamiltonfan]

1 minute ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Didn't seem to hurt Herb Brooks in 1980

Miracle on Ice, classic!!!!! “..but not today”!!

im excited for this friendly and player selection. Should be fun for us 

[Gian-Luca]

7 hours ago, Kent said:

I don’t think this is about excluding players, I think it’s about focusing players. Maybe I am reading into this but if I think about how that conversation would go it seems like a motivational thing to get out of your players. I have only played at an amateur level (cue the Herdman is an amateur comments) but I think of it like asking players why they come to practice. If it’s because they have to, then they are just doing their time, but if it’s because they want to get better and win then they need to work hard in those practices and come prepared, etc.

With pros they could have different motivations. Take the country forward, leave a legacy for themselves, put themselves in the shop window and increase their value. If he can point out to them that the best way to do those things is to work together to help the team get results then maybe he’ll have a more focused team all pulling in the same direction.

I am looking at it this way - Zambrano was always making comments and efforts at trying to win as many players over as possible and get them to buy in and commit to playing for Canada. Witness all of the comments he would publicly about Davies and Tabla, visiting the latter and also flying down to Uruguay to help bring Cavallini back into the fold. Zambrano would praise our overall talent, said it was good enough to succeed in our region and then worked hard to try and include as many talented players as possible. To me that's inclusive and depth-building in nature.

One of the first things that we get from Herdman is a comment about players not being a part of our program if they seemingly do not share the same purpose as he does. This is why I feel it comes across as exclusionary in comparison.

One tangible hypothetical which springs to mind (but is not the be all and end all of what I'm thinking about) - I didn't want to read anything into the location of this game but I had been secretly hoping it was chosen in part because our top uncommitted prospect is also now in the same country that this game is and it would be a perfect opportunity for him to try to see what the new coach is all about (in a non-capping situation which thus doesn't put the same pressure on Tabla to choose that a WCQ would). I'm not sure that this quote leaves me overly optimistic that even if he should try to meet with Tabla, that he'll be doing what is necessary to persuade him to play for Canada. But I'd loved to be proven wrong and hear that he sat down the guy and has done his best to persuade him to come on board.

 

[Gian-Luca]

3 hours ago, Rheo said:

You do realize that he has mentioned tactics and psychology right?  Also the psychology aspect was specifically brought up by players he's had talks with.  News articles contain a lot more information that tweets do normally

From Toronto Star https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2018/02/01/herdman-lays-out-early-canadian-soccer-blueprint.html

• Herdman says he has already been in contact with some players to outline his vision and get their feedback. Some areas that need improvement based on those discussions, he said, are sports science and the mental part of the game.
• Next, Herdman plans to analyze the team’s tactical play in detail, focusing on the last seven games. 

Possibly - it could be that the areas that need improvement that he identified is something he came to the conclusion about (or asked "leading" questions about given his comments when first hired) after he discussed things with a few players. It doesn't necessarily mean that he spoke to say, Hoilett who then volunteered out of the blue that he and his teammates are mentally weak.

 

[Kent]

6 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I am looking at it this way - Zambrano was always making comments and efforts at trying to win as many players over as possible and get them to buy in and commit to playing for Canada. Witness all of the comments he would publicly about Davies and Tabla, visiting the latter and also flying down to Uruguay to help bring Cavallini back into the fold. Zambrano would praise our overall talent, said it was good enough to succeed in our region and then worked hard to try and include as many talented players as possible. To me that's inclusive and depth-building in nature.

One of the first things that we get from Herdman is a comment about players not being a part of our program if they seemingly share the same purpose as he does. This is why I feel it comes across as exclusionary in comparison.

Well, what I'm about to bring up isn't a like for like comparison, but I should point out that Herdman tried to expand the pool of the women's team as well. I'm not sure about getting dual nationals since I think that's a lot less of a problem for Canada on the women's side, but he did convince Kara Lang to try to rehab and come out of retirement, which she totally bought into, but unfortunately was derailed by aggravating her injuries.

[Rheo]

Possibly lol?  I backed up the articles assertion that the players mentioned that psychology was an issue with a quote from a reputable news source while you have developed your own theory, distorting the point from the article (a team that needs to improve on the "mental part of the game " is a whole lot less drastic than you're take that someone might of said the entire team is "mentally weak") based on nothing.

Ok I guess it is possible that Herdman  fabricated or embellished things or asked "leading questions" for some other purpose or agenda but then again anything is possible  

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Now that I know there is a friendly coming up, I am not going to watch that Herdman video. I just can't. I'd rather watch the team and him on the sideline, and see if it makes any sense. All the rest is BS. Including my pessimism. 

[Gian-Luca]

4 hours ago, Rheo said:

Possibly lol?  I backed up the articles assertion that the players mentioned that psychology was an issue with a quote from a reputable news source while you have developed your own theory, distorting the point from the article (a team that needs to improve on the "mental part of the game " is a whole lot less drastic than you're take that someone might of said the entire team is "mentally weak") based on nothing.

Ok I guess it is possible that Herdman  fabricated or embellished things or asked "leading questions" for some other purpose or agenda but then again anything is possible  

 

Herdman is a self promoter. Nothing wrong with that per se but we need to be mindful of that. Also, it is hardly a “distortion” to conclude that an improvement in the mental part of the game suggests some sort of mental weakness.

[General Apathy]

Meh, I'm not concerned by what Herdman says or doesn't say.  What really matters is how well the team performs on his watch and his ability to get dual nationals to play for us.

[johnyb]

4 hours ago, Rheo said:

Possibly lol?  I backed up the articles assertion that the players mentioned that psychology was an issue with a quote from a reputable news source while you have developed your own theory, distorting the point from the article (a team that needs to improve on the "mental part of the game " is a whole lot less drastic than you're take that someone might of said the entire team is "mentally weak") based on nothing.

Ok I guess it is possible that Herdman  fabricated or embellished things or asked "leading questions" for some other purpose or agenda but then again anything is possible  

 

Sounds like Al Montoya syndrome.

[BearcatSA]

It's definitely going to be a huge challenge to establish the same kind of cohesive mentality with the role players on this team than he had with the role players on the women's team partly because he won't have the same amount of time with them to build that kind of rapport.  But who knows? 

If Davies proves to be the real deal, if Larin (and/or Cavallini) produces on the international stage, and if a couple of other young guys emerge as bona fide, international starters, then Herdman's prospects will improve immensely.

 

 

[Northvansteve]

Who would we like to see called up for this friendly? A few Euro-based players to consider:

F: Liam Millar

M: Stephen Eustaquio, Kianz Froese

D: Gabriel Boakye