TFC off-season - 2017-2018

[Bison44]

This probably shows that management doesnt have much faith in Rickets, Hamilton, Spencer, Akinola etc as back ups.  And maybe they are more comfortable giving Chapman, Osorio, Fraser, Delgado more minutes this year (although its only an extra 1500minutes to replace Cooper and Cheryou).  

[dbailey62]

10 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

This probably shows that management doesnt have much faith in Rickets, Hamilton, Spencer, Akinola etc as back ups.  And maybe they are more comfortable giving Chapman, Osorio, Fraser, Delgado more minutes this year (although its only an extra 1500minutes to replace Cooper and Cheryou).  

If there's any truth to it at all! There may not be. Also, remember, ownership wants to win the CCL and go to Abu Dhabi for the World Club Championships! They are aiming high! TFC would need a lot of depth to play in a tournament that takes place the week after the MLS Cup......but let's not get ahead of ourselves!

 

[Gian-Luca]

12 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

This probably shows that management doesnt have much faith in Rickets, Hamilton, Spencer, Akinola etc as back ups.  And maybe they are more comfortable giving Chapman, Osorio, Fraser, Delgado more minutes this year (although its only an extra 1500minutes to replace Cooper and Cheryou).  

It will likely be more than 1500 minutes though once additional games (starting of Feb. 20th) are thrown into the mix.

Although not counting Vanney and perhaps TFC's unofficial mouthpiece Kurtis Larson, I don't know anyone who actually does have faith in Spencer, so I can't blame them on that front if they don't have any faith in him in particular!

[to70]

Today basically non starters lost to a Mexican Navy team 2-0 in 2X30 mins. game

Starting XI vs. Mexican Navy

Clint Irwin
Tim Kubel
Julian Dunn
Nick Hagglund
Ashtone Morgan
Nicolas Hasler
Liam Fraser
Noble Okello
Tsubasa Endoh
Jordan Hamilton
Ben Spencer

 

[harrycoyster]

24 minutes ago, to70 said:

Today basically non starters lost to a Mexican Navy team 2-0 in 2X30 mins. game

Starting XI vs. Mexican Navy

Clint Irwin
Tim Kubel
Julian Dunn
Nick Hagglund
Ashtone Morgan
Nicolas Hasler
Liam Fraser
Noble Okello
Tsubasa Endoh
Jordan Hamilton
Ben Spencer

 

Mexican Navy? As in TFCs back-ups couldn't beat full-time sailors? Yikes.

[Bison44]

That is a TFC2 lineup.  

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, to70 said:

Today basically non starters lost to a Mexican Navy team 2-0 in 2X30 mins. game

Starting XI vs. Mexican Navy

Clint Irwin
Tim Kubel
Julian Dunn
Nick Hagglund
Ashtone Morgan
Nicolas Hasler
Liam Fraser
Noble Okello
Tsubasa Endoh
Jordan Hamilton
Ben Spencer

 

Hmmmm......guessing Endoh was being played in the Vazquez role here. With Spencer up top as well & altitude training perhaps not a surprise they got a goose-egg. Although nice to see Okello & Dunn getting some minutes given how young they are (both 17 I believe).

[to70]

14 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Although nice to see Okello & Dunn getting some minutes given how young they are (both 17 I believe).

Wonder if Dunn gets a first team contract when he turns 18, especially if they don't re-sign Hernandez.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, to70 said:

Wonder if Dunn gets a first team contract when he turns 18, especially if they don't re-sign Hernandez.

Do they have to wait for him to turn 18 if the want to sign him for that? I thought the 18 age thing was only for foreign players

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

That is a TFC2 lineup.  

I don't think Hasler belongs in this group.

For me he is a borderline starter / first option off the bench sorta guy. Very underrated and easy to forget he scored 3 goals in 12 games from basically a wing back position. That is close to Morrow level production. Van der wiel may win the starting RB spot in time, but I fully expect Hasler to be in the mix.

But yeah.... basically it was the TFC II guys plus Hasler, Hauggland and Irwin. After them...Morgan, Hamilton, Spencer and Endo are probably the next closest to the 1st team... in that order. 

[jpg75]

43 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Do they have to wait for him to turn 18 if the want to sign him for that? I thought the 18 age thing was only for foreign players

It is. They can sign any of these CDN kids to pro contracts whenever they want to.

[jpg75]

3 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

Mexican Navy? As in TFCs back-ups couldn't beat full-time sailors? Yikes.

3rd Division club side

http://es.liga-mx.wikia.com/wiki/Fútbol_Club_Marina

[Free kick]

9 hours ago, dbailey62 said:

Only 17 goals in 97 appearances. If we are after a scorer, I don't know if he's it but I know little of him apart from the red card vs TFC some years back. Could he be a back-up #9 behind Vazquez? Can he be a playmaker?

He is listed as a forward from what i was able to find.   Do TFC really need this?  There are players on the depth chart behind Giovinco, Altidore and Ricketts who (given their age) really need minutes.  And minutes are going to be scarce as long as those guys are around.  

Also,  Altidore and Giovinco cant be around for ever and their future replacements need to get some minutes at this stage of their career.  I am kind of hoping this deal for Quintero doesnt pan out. 

 

 

[Bison44]

Maybe Vanney still thinks he is losing Altidore to the WC this summer??  I guess they still have money to spend, they'll want to bring in someone.  But when you are already a deep team it gets harder and harder to bring up/test out any young talent.  if the young strikers dont make some sort of dent in Vanneys head they'll get leap frogged and cast off.  Especially if the league is making it easier (TAM) to parachute in established mini DP's (van der weil, Vasquez etc).

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

He is listed as a forward from what i was able to find.   Do TFC really need this?  There are players on the depth chart behind Giovinco, Altidore and Ricketts who (given their age) really need minutes.  And minutes are going to be scarce as long as those guys are around.  

Also,  Altidore and Giovinco cant be around for ever and their future replacements need to get some minutes at this stage of their career.  I am kind of hoping this deal for Quintero doesnt pan out. 

I really feel that this is now a buying club, not a grow-your-team, for the most part.  They got the dosh to purchase not just DP talent but the league edicts gives them the green light to buy top notch second level support players, especially for the attacking positions.

Minutes are going to be scarce for the younger (Canadian) guys for a long time to come.

[to70]

Here is a recent Toronto Star article about TFC development

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2018/02/04/toronto-fc-not-standing-pat-despite-the-championship.html

Bezbatchenko, who has said he hopes to one day field a squad made up entirely of players from the Reds’ academy, is targeting sustainable success.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, to70 said:

Here is a recent Toronto Star article about TFC development

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2018/02/04/toronto-fc-not-standing-pat-despite-the-championship.html

Bezbatchenko, who has said he hopes to one day field a squad made up entirely of players from the Reds’ academy, is targeting sustainable success.

That's the key verb there.  May happen....

[to70]

45 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

That's the key verb there.  May happen....

TBH realistically it will never happen. I'd be happy if they would have 4-5 homegrown regulars. Right I'm hoping  that the likes of Chapman are taking the opportunity to learn from Vasquez and others to improve themselves. The one thing that I would like Chapman to pick up from Vasquez is how to shield the ball. That is a really weak spot for Chapman as he gets push off the ball too easily and Victor is a master at it.

[Rheo]

Reports of Brazilian Auro coming in on loan with option to buy

https://www.wakingthered.com/toronto-fc/2018/2/10/16999140/report-toronto-fc-to-add-fullback-from-sao-paulo-on-loan-auro-tfc-mls-transer-rumours

[El Hombre]

3 hours ago, to70 said:

Here is a recent Toronto Star article about TFC development

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2018/02/04/toronto-fc-not-standing-pat-despite-the-championship.html

Bezbatchenko, who has said he hopes to one day field a squad made up entirely of players from the Reds’ academy, is targeting sustainable success.

That is some exceptional lip service.

[BearcatSA]

8 hours ago, to70 said:

TBH realistically it will never happen. I'd be happy if they would have 4-5 homegrown regulars. Right I'm hoping  that the likes of Chapman are taking the opportunity to learn from Vasquez and others to improve themselves. The one thing that I would like Chapman to pick up from Vasquez is how to shield the ball. That is a really weak spot for Chapman as he gets push off the ball too easily and Victor is a master at it.

The best thing that any of these MLS academies will provide are decent level players for a new CPL.  I think you are seeing Canadian university soccer benefit from this right now and a new domestic league will be the next beneficiary.  I have no doubt that a few home grown guys will emerge as regular squad players; one or two might even be key starters in some positions.  But in what I like to call "Hollywood" positions (key attacking roles), this club will be buying guys from elsewhere.

IMO, Chapman isn't the "next man up" after Vazquez here as long term successor.  They'll be buying that successor from abroad.  But as you note, you hope he garners enough savvy to carry it over to another club and then contribute at a higher level.

[jpg75]

1 hour ago, Rheo said:

Reports of Brazilian Auro coming in on loan with option to buy

https://www.wakingthered.com/toronto-fc/2018/2/10/16999140/report-toronto-fc-to-add-fullback-from-sao-paulo-on-loan-auro-tfc-mls-transer-rumours

Why would we need another fullback? I count 6 on the roster already.

edit: I read the article, even less convinced. If Vanney reverts to 3-5-2, Hasler as a midfielder? 

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

45 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

The best thing that any of these MLS academies will provide is provide decent level players for a new CPL.  I think you are seeing Canadian university soccer benefit from this right now and a new domestic league will be the next beneficiary.  I have no doubt that a few home grown guys will emerge as regular squad players; one or two might even be key starters in some positions.  But in what I like to call "Hollywood" positions (key attacking roles), this club will be buying guys from elsewhere.

IMO, Chapman isn't the "next man up" after Vazquez here as long term successor.  They'll be buying that successor from abroad.  But as you note, you hope he garners enough savvy to carry it over to another club and then contribute at a higher level.

One of the problems with the MLS is there aren’t other clubs within the league for players like Chapman to go to. For example, Tammy Abraham was a top prospect for Chealsea, but he was never gonna win a starting striker spot. Why would a top club use an untested player if they could buy one that has experience? However, Abraham was sent off to Swansea and is starting relatively consistently. Who knows, maybe he will work his way back up to a top club. The open system allows players to face the same level of competition in a starting spot.

The salary cap and DP role in the MLS keeps it so that players can’t shift from team to team to find a starting spot like they can elsewhere in the world. As a result, talented players like Chapman will get to the backup role and either stay there, or have to transfer to Europe or USL. They are unable to stay in the same league and fight for a spot on a weaker team. 

[toontownman]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

The best thing that any of these MLS academies will provide is provide decent level players for a new CPL.  I think you are seeing Canadian university soccer benefit from this right now and a new domestic league will be the next beneficiary.  I have no doubt that a few home grown guys will emerge as regular squad players; one or two might even be key starters in some positions.  But in what I like to call "Hollywood" positions (key attacking roles), this club will be buying guys from elsewhere.

IMO, Chapman isn't the "next man up" after Vazquez here as long term successor.  They'll be buying that successor from abroad.  But as you note, you hope he garners enough savvy to carry it over to another club and then contribute at a higher level.

I think these mls academies will benefit the CPL and vice versa especially if and hopefully when the league is really up and running well. 

Predominantly the gap is still too wide for most academy players to really compete or be close to the level of starters on top leagues. Not just MLS. It is the same at most premiership clubs and other top leagues. They end up having to take the long route around in lower leagues and eventually if good enough make it back. At TFC though for instance who is going to come through and take minutes of van der wiel or giovinco and the increasing level of mls demands most squads have backups for those players that are almost as good? More importantly that's less of a problem than which manager has the balls and security/boardroom support to give younger players the minutes.

The highest level of football is always driven too much by results and pressure on managers to deliver. Unless the youth talent is clearly exceptional and at least as good as the foreign or older talent managers won't risk getting the sack for bad performances and ownerhip groups and boards look at the bottom line first predominantly. 

It is a chicken and the egg scenario the gap can't get closed without minutes and experience for the younger players but managers generally won't risk giving them the minutes because most don't match up with the majority of the existing squad in skill and performance.

The more recent investment in academies and coaching at the Canadian club's and exposure of the game in Canada has really done wonders and will only serve to close down that gap but we aren't quite there yet. It is why I don't lose too much sleep when so many players for instance at Vancouver just haven't broken through. Much to the chagrin of many (rightly so - we need to develop our Canadian players). They simply aren't ready to be consistently better than what is in the squad. It's why the CPL is so potentially huge for this country not least that it is a league based primarily on developing the Canadian game rather than making money. Its the next step in closing that gap completely. 

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

One of the problems with the MLS is there aren’t other clubs within the league for players like Chapman to go to. For example, Tammy Abraham was a top prospect for Chealsea, but he was never gonna win a starting striker spot. Why would a top club use an untested player if they could buy one that has experience? However, Abraham was sent off to Swansea and is starting relatively consistently. Who knows, maybe he will work his way back up to a top club. The open system allows players to face the same level of competition in a starting spot.

The salary cap and DP role in the MLS keeps it so that players can’t shift from team to team to find a starting spot like they can elsewhere in the world. As a result, talented players like Chapman will get to the backup role and either stay there, or have to transfer to Europe or USL. They are unable to stay in the same league and fight for a spot on a weaker team. 

For players coming through the academy there will be lots of MLS clubs who aren’t at the top tier of the league (assuming MLSE money allows TFC to stay there) that they will count as domestics for. We have seen 4 ex TFC academy/2 players move to other clubs this year (Henry, Petrasso, Edwards, and Kaye).

But thanks to the CSA (or Victor M. in particular) TFC will need to have a base of at least 6 starter-quality Canucks if they want to keep getting to the Champions league. And that is not a sarcastic thanks either. For that alone I think you will still see TFC play/develop some Canucks