Bigandy Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, costarg said: Overall we're on the same page man. By no means do i mean to be disrespectful to either of these guys. Borjan is a CANMNT legend, Vitoria has been a loyal soldier that gave us some of his best work. Using brainfarts and shit-show vs "bad game" is just slang and not meant to be disrespectful in anyway. After all this is pro sports not afternoon tea. About "no evidence of them being responsible for any shit show", you don't only disagree with me, but also pretty much all media outlets and podcasts concerning Borjan in the Jamaica game. Everyone called him out in that game, and there have been lots of brainfarts over the years and we loved him through all of it. He's still starting. Vitoria: Once again, I don't feel he has looked good, solid or even average lately. To me it's a blatant vulnerability and only a bad pitch saved him vs Jamaica. He has also started very recently. Peace man I guess we are squabbling over little differences. I call the second half of the jamaica game the shit show. Thats why I thought it was unfair to blame the guys on the bench like oso and vitoria. small differences but shit show to me implies chaos and extremely poor performance. Bad game means that they were not up to par. IMO: Zators 3 minutes (both times) at the gold cup were a shit show. Oso's gold cup performance was poor. But yeah, I see youre point. I wasnt trying to come at you... just provide a different narrative for our vets. Im more than ready to give minutes to our next crop of players and extremely excited for LDF/ JKL/Mcgill/Sirios debuts. costarg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 we badly need games/camps to give some of these "newer" players meaningful mins and test different combinations. It's tough to ask "newbies" to step into the leadership role especially with sparse mins with the CMNT. These are dark days. Bigandy and Corazon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kacbru Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Vitoria starts and scores vs. Braga, but has nothing to offer for CMNT. I haven't watched, so have no idea how he has played, but playing regularly in Portugal is a step up from many of the so-called replacements, some who have virtually no professional experience. Corazon, narduch, johnyb and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 1/31/2024 at 3:21 PM, kacbru said: Vitoria starts and scores vs. Braga, but has nothing to offer for CMNT. I haven't watched, so have no idea how he has played, but playing regularly in Portugal is a step up from many of the so-called replacements, some who have virtually no professional experience. I compare the vitoria narrative to the dutch and daley blind. He gets roasted constantly from fans and they never want to see him again. It's because hes slow. It doesnt matter that blinds starting for the best team in la liga or that his stats show his ball progression is one of the best in europe. Speed = everything during lazy analysis. Vitoria never gets judged with his intangibles included. The backline is clearly more composed when hes on the field. Yes he can get beaten for pace but he typically pushes the attacker into a low percentage area or tactically fouls them.... I dont think I've seen him get beat for pace that leads to a goal recently. However, Miller has been beaten for pace on long balls semi regularly for CMNT. I'm all for transitioning because it needs to happen but if we needed a win today, Vitoria is 100% in the conversation to start. Northvansteve and kacbru 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 32 minutes ago, Bigandy said: I compare the vitoria narrative to the dutch and daley blind. He gets roasted constantly from fans and they never want to see him again. It's because hes slow. It doesnt matter that blinds starting for the best team in la liga or that his stats show his ball progression is one of the best in europe. Speed = everything during lazy analysis. Vitoria never gets judged with his intangibles included. The backline is clearly more composed when hes on the field. Yes he can get beaten for pace but he typically pushes the attacker into a low percentage area or tactically fouls them.... I dont think I've seen him get beat for pace that leads to a goal recently. However, Miller has been beaten for pace on long balls semi regularly for CMNT. I'm all for transitioning because it needs to happen but if we needed a win today, Vitoria is 100% in the conversation to start. Interesting comparison. Yesterday I was listening to Herc and Filipo Silva on TMTV talking about Tim Ream and I immediately drew parallels with Vitoria. Both are the same age, which is to say they are long in the tooth, but both are arguably amongst the best, if not the best CB in their respective pools. Different levels obviously, with Ream being a veteran of the EPL and Vitoria being a veteran of the Primeria Liga, but both provide leadership, a calming steady presence, and both get reamed (no pun intended) for being slow. A lack of speed is a major weakness for both, which worries both sets of fans, but their general level of play in relation to the other options is such that Canada and the USA cannot move on from them. And that's where the conversation went between Filipo and Herc - what do the USA do about Ream as 2026 approaches? Do they drop Ream now so that whoever takes his place has time to acclimate, or do they keep riding him out, knowing the team still benefits from him being there, even at the age of 36/37? It's the exact same conversation we are having with Vitoria. Ironic that both North American nations have pretty much the exact same issue to sort out, as both head into the 2026 WC, which they will host. YorkRegionFan, WestHamCanadianinOxford and costarg 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 30 minutes ago, Obinna said: Interesting comparison. Yesterday I was listening to Herc and Filipo Silva on TMTV talking about Tim Ream and I immediately drew parallels with Vitoria. Both are the same age, which is to say they are long in the tooth, but both are arguably amongst the best, if not the best CB in their respective pools. Different levels obviously, with Ream being a veteran of the EPL and Vitoria being a veteran of the Primeria Liga, but both provide leadership, a calming steady presence, and both get reamed (no pun intended) for being slow. A lack of speed is a major weakness for both, which worries both sets of fans, but their general level of play in relation to the other options is such that Canada and the USA cannot move on from them. And that's where the conversation went between Filipo and Herc - what do the USA do about Ream as 2026 approaches? Do they drop Ream now so that whoever takes his place has time to acclimate, or do they keep riding him out, knowing the team still benefits from him being there, even at the age of 36/37? It's the exact same conversation we are having with Vitoria. Ironic that both North American nations have pretty much the exact same issue to sort out, as both head into the 2026 WC, which they will host. Really cool thought. What were the general vibes about ream? My guess is that most CMNT fans would say that it would be silly to drop ream. However, the logic then turns around when we talk about vitoria.... Likewise I think USMNT fans would say the same about vitoria, but want to replace ream.... Obinna and rkomar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Bigandy said: Really cool thought. What were the general vibes about ream? My guess is that most CMNT fans would say that it would be silly to drop ream. However, the logic then turns around when we talk about vitoria.... Likewise I think USMNT fans would say the same about vitoria, but want to replace ream.... I agree. Here is where they start talking about Ream (at 3:10) Bigandy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 1/31/2024 at 5:21 PM, kacbru said: Vitoria starts and scores vs. Braga, but has nothing to offer for CMNT. I haven't watched, so have no idea how he has played, but playing regularly in Portugal is a step up from many of the so-called replacements, some who have virtually no professional experience. Lets dig a little deeper.... Decent and competitive team in Liga NOS Played 1077 minutes of a possible 1767 - played 61% of the time. Braga is a very offensive team, 2nd highest scoring team in Liga NOS, it’s not the defending that stands out. Players retire from national teams a lot sooner than they retire from club. 37 is very old for a national team and he is no Atiba. Measuring a CB for his goal scoring is like measuring a striker on his defensive skills. It's great he can score, we always knew he could, but its the age and defending that is the concern. Respect your opinion, but sticking with Vitoria is pointless right now and not getting us anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 hours ago, costarg said: Lets dig a little deeper.... Decent and competitive team in Liga NOS Played 1077 minutes of a possible 1767 - played 61% of the time. Braga is a very offensive team, 2nd highest scoring team in Liga NOS, it’s not the defending that stands out. Players retire from national teams a lot sooner than they retire from club. 37 is very old for a national team and he is no Atiba. Measuring a CB for his goal scoring is like measuring a striker on his defensive skills. It's great he can score, we always knew he could, but its the age and defending that is the concern. Respect your opinion, but sticking with Vitoria is pointless right now and not getting us anywhere. You do realize that defending against the 2nd highest scoring team in liga NOS points to defending standing out....? If he can defend against the 2nd highest scoring team in portugal who are in 4th, then I believe he can defend against T and T. still agree that I would like to see younger guys come through. But if we judge him on ability alone and not longevity, than surely defending succesfully against portugal internationals like horta, lopes, bruma etc shows that he can handle CPL quality strikers that T and T have. johnyb and kacbru 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, Bigandy said: You do realize that defending against the 2nd highest scoring team in liga NOS points to defending standing out....? If he can defend against the 2nd highest scoring team in portugal who are in 4th, then I believe he can defend against T and T. still agree that I would like to see younger guys come through. But if we judge him on ability alone and not longevity, than surely defending succesfully against portugal internationals like horta, lopes, bruma etc shows that he can handle CPL quality strikers that T and T have. I'm such a dumb ass, I was multitasking and actually looked up their recent opponents stats (Braga) as opposed to his own teams stats (Chaves)! Sorry about the confusion. But it actually works out worse this way. He actually plays for the team who is tied for last and holds the worst GD in the league as well as the most goals against (6 more than the closest team). And he isn't even an undisputed starter on said team, and people still think he's the best option? Ok whatever, I'm out, this is crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Did Julian win a contract yet? Or we still fighting about things out of control? toontownman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 2/2/2024 at 6:04 PM, costarg said: I'm such a dumb ass, I was multitasking and actually looked up their recent opponents stats (Braga) as opposed to his own teams stats (Chaves)! Sorry about the confusion. But it actually works out worse this way. He actually plays for the team who is tied for last and holds the worst GD in the league as well as the most goals against (6 more than the closest team). And he isn't even an undisputed starter on said team, and people still think he's the best option? Ok whatever, I'm out, this is crazy. No worries - I kind of assumed you did. Just a quick note on your stats - Hes 7th on the team for minutes played. Hes also 7th for most starts with the 6 guys ahead of him in different positions. The stats suggest he is as close to an undisputed starter at his position on chaves.... Certainly it proves he's not below another starting player in the depth chart. Especually considering chaves is likely to rotate him and manage his minutes at age 37. I think if we have a CB playing on any team in Portugal, they automatically get put in the conversation for starting. Regardless of what team or standings. I personally think it would be crazy to not consider a CB in Portugal just because they play on a bad team. Our CB is not deep. Now if we want to prep for the future, thats a whole other ideology with merit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 2/2/2024 at 10:03 PM, jordan said: Did Julian win a contract yet? Or we still fighting about things out of control? What a stupid unrelated comment to put in this thread. Go post it in the Vitoria thread, naturally. jordan and Bison44 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 HAHA, I keep coming here after seeing the posts about "him" getting minutes and being a starter etc. So dissapointing...come on Julian, make some news so we can talk about you!!! toontownman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 23 hours ago, Bigandy said: No worries - I kind of assumed you did. Just a quick note on your stats - Hes 7th on the team for minutes played. Hes also 7th for most starts with the 6 guys ahead of him in different positions. The stats suggest he is as close to an undisputed starter at his position on chaves.... Certainly it proves he's not below another starting player in the depth chart. Especually considering chaves is likely to rotate him and manage his minutes at age 37. I think if we have a CB playing on any team in Portugal, they automatically get put in the conversation for starting. Regardless of what team or standings. I personally think it would be crazy to not consider a CB in Portugal just because they play on a bad team. Our CB is not deep. Now if we want to prep for the future, thats a whole other ideology with merit as well. Replying to @Bigandy - just move along if you're only looking for an update on JDJ. Ya I get what you are saying and the angle. Bigger picture and for immediate results it can make sense. I just hate the feeling of "not progressing", I feel there is no evolution or planning for the future. Most nations, turn the page after major tournaments and look to develop and plan for the next, there is none of that happening at CANMNT. Just seem to be stuck on the field, management and at HQ, while sinking steadily in performances as well as rankings. I'm trying to figure out where the worst defence and team in Portugal stands in comparison to our other options, MLS or playing a LCB out of position. I feel familiarity is the only factor still at play here. Skill and competence wise, I feel he's already been surpassed, it's just that the other options and combinations have not had time to gel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 30 minutes ago, costarg said: Replying to @Bigandy - just move along if you're only looking for an update on JDJ. Ya I get what you are saying and the angle. Bigger picture and for immediate results it can make sense. I just hate the feeling of "not progressing", I feel there is no evolution or planning for the future. Most nations, turn the page after major tournaments and look to develop and plan for the next, there is none of that happening at CANMNT. Just seem to be stuck on the field, management and at HQ, while sinking steadily in performances as well as rankings. I'm trying to figure out where the worst defence and team in Portugal stands in comparison to our other options, MLS or playing a LCB out of position. I feel familiarity is the only factor still at play here. Skill and competence wise, I feel he's already been surpassed, it's just that the other options and combinations have not had time to gel. Love this take and it's how I feel.... even if my debates may not feel like it. We should be ready to transition. I think that you're correct that time to gel is important, but I also really value an imposing CB who makes the whole backline better through calmness, organization etc. Ramos was that leader and varane was a complimentary piece. As a compliment piece, varanes a fantastic player. However, the whole team is better with ramos being the main guy organizing. Miller, cornelius, kennedy etc all feel like guys who individually are good but none of them are the guy who takes charge back there. A true dominant leader. 2 compliment guys may be better than one compliment and one aging and declining leader, but the transition would be so much easier if we had a guy who could take charge. costarg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Ham Kam are heading to Turkey for training camp and play tomorrow, hopefully Dunn is part of that trip. toontownman, costarg, canuckgbp and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 75 mins this morn against FC Federica. Corazon, costarg, johnyb and 10 others 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Edgar Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 back in the CanPL?!? Canuckia, Obinna, Club Linesman and 10 others 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Interesting, the press release sounds like he was training without a contract/trialist. 23 turning 24 this year, still prime for a move back up with a solid season or two. costarg, NVsoccer, aredding77 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 The guy just needs to stay healthy and play. Get a full season in under his belt and see where he is at. Shocking when u see how few games he has actually played over the years. NVsoccer, johnyb, YorkRegionFan and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Too bad he couldn’t stick in Norway, but good for CPL and good for HFX. Him and Nimick could end up as two of the best CBs in the entire league. Shway, toontownman and johnyb 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I really hope him and nimick have great years and both move on next season. Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Surprised that Nimick didn’t get moved already with all the MLS attention that he was apparently getting. Didn’t TFC just sign another 19 year old CB? Nimick could’ve been that guy. Anyways, CPL has been killing their off-season signings this year. Hoping the league takes a big leap on aggregate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said: Too bad he couldn’t stick in Norway, but good for CPL and good for HFX. Him and Nimick could end up as two of the best CBs in the entire league. He was injured for such a long period that his club probably didn't want to risk extending his contract. It's probably more that vs his performances in Norway, but I guess we will see this yr. InglewoodJack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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