Canadian Dual Nationals 2.0 Edition, Chase for the 5 stars

[Jack1997]

20 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

whereas for the US, any of those guys might be “their guy”, for us we can be confident that David is our main striker for probably the next decade

Balogun scored 20 goals in Ligue 1 this year, just 2 less than David while being 2 years younger, still think David’s the better player but Balogun Is easily the 2nd best striker in Concacaf and is gonna be a crucial player for the US for a long time.

[Obinna]

13 minutes ago, Jack1997 said:

Balogun scored 20 goals in Ligue 1 this year, just 2 less than David while being 2 years younger, still think David’s the better player but Balogun Is easily the 2nd best striker in Concacaf and is gonna be a crucial player for the US for a long time.

We'll see about this. Balogun has a single season of success under his belt. David has 5. Not saying Balogun isn't crazy talented, but he flopped in the Championship. This could be a one-off. 

David is 1.5 years older by the way. He's a 2000 (early-year b-day) and Balogun is a 2001 (mid-year bday).

[Bigandy]

43 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I was mostly thinking of it as an either/or between those two- I think Sigur has a better chance of being better than any of those guys than Jebbison does to be better than David let alone Larin. Jebbison could be a premier league striker, I mean technically he is now given sheffield’s promotion, but I also thought Corbeanu was going to be in the premier league next season when he was scoring at a good pace with Blackpool earlier this year, and now that likely isn’t the case. As for the guys you mention, I think he has potential to be the best of them all given where he’s at in his career at the age that many of those players were playoff NCAA or CPL (not sure where Farsi was at 19- PLSQ? York?)

 

Going back to this, a guy I’ve started trying to keep track of is enes sali. Someone here said he’s waiting to leave Romania before he switches to us, and apparently some good teams (Sporting?) are looking at him. No clue how credible that info is still but of all the long shot dual nationals, he might be the one who ends up with us.

I have a feeling sigur ends up in midfield if he continues his current trajectory. Then I agree with you. If he stays at RB then I am guessing he didnt reach the heights we hoped for (based off nothing). Therefore I dont think he is going to be a huge upgrade on johnston.  - A completely nonsense based assumption on my part when ive never seen him play....

Sali was on my list of duals who need to file a one time switch in the post above the one u mentioned. I considered him as likely to switch as mitrovic. Great to hear theres a higher chance. I heard Hagi had a huge influence on him picking romania initially so hopefully once he transfers, we can convice him to join us. Do you know much about his style? 

[Kadenge]

18 minutes ago, Jack1997 said:

Balogun scored 20 goals in Ligue 1 this year, just 2 less than David while being 2 years younger, still think David’s the better player but Balogun Is easily the 2nd best striker in Concacaf and is gonna be a crucial player for the US for a long time.

Let's see if Balogun can replicate the season he's had. This is his first season as a pro with those stats. He has scored loads of goals in Prem League 2 & U18 Prem league but only 2G in 21 games for Middlesbrough in the Championship. Compare that to David's production each year as a pro. If he can keep his production at a similar level next season or for the US, then I agree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kadenge]

12 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We'll see about this. Balogun has a single season of success under his belt. David has 5. Not saying Balogun isn't crazy talented, but he flopped in the Championship. This could be a one-off. 

David is 1.5 years older by the way. He's a 2000 (early-year b-day) and Balogun is a 2001 (mid-year bday).

lol..couldn't have said it better 

 

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

lol..couldn't have said it better 

 

Not making a prediction here, but couldn't you just see Balogun flopping under the expectations that come with being the USMNT's elusive final puzzel piece?

Something rotten remains in that fan base and their collective heads are going to explode if he doesn't hit the ground running. It could go swimmingly or it could go very, very badly.

They are so desperate and convinced the lack of 9 was the last thing keeping them from true and utter dominance in the region, but I have always felt that narrative was WAY overblown and took on a life of it's own. In truth, they've had great 9s this whole time. Sargent, Pepi, Pefok and even Dike, these are all good players, no? I just think their egos cannot cope with the fact that none of them are Jonathan David. Truth be told that's why the narrative took hold in the first place. They saw what we have, saw he was born in the USA, and then looked at their ineffectual 9s with disgust. But now they have their own version they are going to expect to beat us handily, you just watch. I can't wait to beat them (again) and shut them out, hoist a trophy (or two) all with Balogun proving to be human. Hell, I saw someone online say it's so good to finally have a world class 9. I couldn't help but laugh! 

Wow, didn't mean to take the USMNT to task so harshly, but that sure was fun haha

[frmr]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Not making a prediction here, but couldn't you just see Balogun flopping under the expectations that come with being the USMNT's elusive final puzzel piece?

Something rotten remains in that fan base and their collective heads are going to explode if he doesn't hit the ground running. It could go swimmingly or it could go very, very badly.

They are so desperate and convinced the lack of 9 was the last thing keeping them from true and utter dominance in the region, but I have always felt that narrative was WAY overblown and took on a life of it's own. In truth, they've had great 9s this whole time. Sargent, Pepi, Pefok and even Dike, these are all good players, no? I just think their egos cannot cope with the fact that none of them are Jonathan David. Truth be told that's why the narrative took hold in the first place. They saw what we have, saw he was born in the USA, and then looked at their ineffectual 9s with disgust. But now they have their own version they are going to expect to beat us handily, you just watch. I can't wait to beat them (again) and shut them out, hoist a trophy (or two) all with Balogun proving to be human. Hell, I saw someone online say it's so good to finally have a world class 9. I couldn't help but laugh! 

Wow, didn't mean to take the USMNT to task so harshly, but that sure was fun haha

Yeah I'm interested to see how his career progresses. He's certainly not in the David discussion, at least yet. He had an excellent year but last year in the Championship he had three goals, so one of those seasons does reflect his true level. I'm not saying he won't become an elite striker, but one season world class does not make. David is only now earning the label of "proven" and he's had five full seasons of double digit production. He improves them for sure, hopefully not too much.

[DrunkOffPunch]

54 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We'll see about this. Balogun has a single season of success under his belt. David has 5. Not saying Balogun isn't crazy talented, but he flopped in the Championship. This could be a one-off. 

David is 1.5 years older by the way. He's a 2000 (early-year b-day) and Balogun is a 2001 (mid-year bday).

Idk how good Flo is but how does 149.1 G/A per minute in league games qualify as a flop for a guy making a mid season loan getting his first pro minutes but David getting 187 G/A per league minute count as a success? I’m not comparing the two but his last season was far from a flop.

[Obinna]

19 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Idk how good Flo is but how does 149.1 G/A per minute in league games qualify as a flop for a guy making a mid season loan getting his first pro minutes but David getting 187 G/A per league minute count as a success? I’m not comparing the two but his last season was far from a flop.

I just look at the 3 goals in 18 games and question what happened (or didn't happen I guess) down in the Championship that season? Perhaps you can enlighten us? 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Obinna

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

I have a feeling sigur ends up in midfield if he continues his current trajectory. Then I agree with you. If he stays at RB then I am guessing he didnt reach the heights we hoped for (based off nothing). Therefore I dont think he is going to be a huge upgrade on johnston.  - A completely nonsense based assumption on my part when ive never seen him play....

Sali was on my list of duals who need to file a one time switch in the post above the one u mentioned. I considered him as likely to switch as mitrovic. Great to hear theres a higher chance. I heard Hagi had a huge influence on him picking romania initially so hopefully once he transfers, we can convice him to join us. Do you know much about his style? 

I haven’t had the chance to actually watch Sali much, so I can’t comment other than he’s playing serious minutes for a 17 year old. I think he’s more likely to switch than Mitrovic given that we’re a stronger team than Romania and Serbia is a stronger team than us, plus Mitrovic is playing for a team that’s basically a national symbol of the country, so I would be shocked if he comes back to us whereas I would only be pleasantly surprised if Sali does. Sali also looks like he’s going to leave the Romanian league sooner than Mitrovic leaves Serbia. Sali also hasn’t been capped in almost (?) two (?) years so I think he can technically play for us next year if he needs to wait the 3 years whereas Mitrovic would have to reject two years of Serbia calls before switching which I definitely don’t think he does while at red Star

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I haven’t had the chance to actually watch Sali much, so I can’t comment other than he’s playing serious minutes for a 17 year old. I think he’s more likely to switch than Mitrovic given that we’re a stronger team than Romania and Serbia is a stronger team than us, plus Mitrovic is playing for a team that’s basically a national symbol of the country, so I would be shocked if he comes back to us whereas I would only be pleasantly surprised if Sali does. Sali also looks like he’s going to leave the Romanian league sooner than Mitrovic leaves Serbia. Sali also hasn’t been capped in almost (?) two (?) years so I think he can technically play for us next year if he needs to wait the 3 years whereas Mitrovic would have to reject two years of Serbia calls before switching which I definitely don’t think he does while at red Star

Sali has been accruing youth caps in the meantime, quite a few in fact. Would that push back the 3 year wait, assuming those games were "official"?

[DrunkOffPunch]

12 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I don't know if you are referring to his Middlesborough loan, nor do I have good knowledge of how that loan went down, but if that's what you are referring to I just look at the 3 goals in 18 games and questioned what happened (or didn't happen I guess) down in the Championship that season? Perhaps you can enlighten us? 

Not really a lot to say. It was an ok year. Good even if you figure it was his first pro experience. Really struggled early on with the physicality of the championship. Arsenal will be selling him. I think as long as he stays out of England he’ll be fine.

[phresh]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

Sali has been accruing youth caps in the meantime, quite a few in fact. Would that push back the 3 year wait, assuming those games were "official"?

No

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Not really a lot to say. It was an ok year. Good even if you figure it was his first pro experience. Really struggled early on with the physicality of the championship. Arsenal will be selling him. I think as long as he stays out of England he’ll be fine.

Fair enough.

Maybe flop is harsh in that case, but by your accounts he struggled in the Championship, which was my point.

And despite the Championship struggles he is clearly he is not struggling in France, he is excelling at a higher level of play.

By contrast, the most David struggled was the first half of his debut season in France. By season's end he had 13 goals and the league title.   

I just have to see more before I proclaim Balogun to be world class, or the 2nd best forward in concacaf. If he can replicate this next year and prove lethal for the USMNT, then yes maybe those claims will be warrented. Until then they aren't (at least in my opinion).  

[Bigandy]

8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Fair enough.

Maybe flop is harsh in that case, but by your accounts he struggled in the Championship, which was my point.

And despite the Championship struggles he is clearly he is not struggling in France, he is excelling at a higher level of play.

By contrast, the most David struggled was the first half of his debut season in France. By season's end he had 13 goals and the league title.   

I just have to see more before I proclaim Balogun to be world class, or the 2nd best forward in concacaf. If he can replicate this next year and prove lethal for the USMNT, then yes maybe those claims will be warrented. Until then they aren't (at least in my opinion).  

Does anyone have stats to compare larins 2nd half of the season to flos?  

[Bertuzzi44]

Balogun is a huge get for the USMNT. Would instantly be our 2nd best striker, especially considering age.

[Norrin Radd]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Does anyone have stats to compare larins 2nd half of the season to flos?  

Since late January, they have both played 17 matches. Balogun has probably played more minutes as he’s started all those games while Larin was a sub in his first three appearances. Balogun has 10 goals and 1 assist compared to 8 and 3 for Larin.

Not a huge difference in the numbers if they were playing at the same level, but of course they’re not.

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Norrin Radd said:

Not a huge difference in the numbers if they were playing at the same level, but of course they’re not.

Balogun appears to have the higher ceiling than Larin, considering what he's doing at the age of 21/22 in Ligue 1, but man when I read this I cannot help that Larin doesn't get the props he deserves on this side of the Atlantic. I watch a lot of Tactical Manager on YT and he repeatedly calls Larin a penalty box merchant and not in a flattering way. He's said he doesn't really rate him even back in his Orlando days. Sure you get people like Herc give Larin his due on occassion, but in general he seems to kind of be forgotten about. At least that's the impression I get. I mean, yes leading WCQ in scoring grabbed people's attention, but I really thought these 8 goals (and 3 helpers) in 17 La Liga would have put more people on notice. People are so excited about Balogun (and rightly so), especially looking out to the future, but right now Larin is having a season (technically half a season) that should rank amongst the best I have seen for a concacaf striker for a while. Case in point, Raul Jiminez scored 13 with Wolves one year in the Prem a few seasons back, and a lot was made of it, but Larin scoring 8 in half a season with Valladolid in La Liga should be comparable, yet has gotten a fraction of the attention comparatively. 

[Norrin Radd]

I haven't seen much of Balogun, so I can't compare him to Larin beyond the basic stats. He's very likely a better player than Larin was at the same age, scoring at a better rate at a higher level. Larin's game has evolved a great deal since his early days in MLS. He has become a very complete player and it's not just about the goals anymore. He does a great job setting up his teammates, his holdup play can be a key part of the team's buildup and his defensive contributions are often overlooked. I'd be curious as to how Belogun compares across all those attributes.

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Norrin Radd said:

I haven't seen much of Balogun, so I can't compare him to Larin beyond the basic stats. He's very likely a better player than Larin was at the same age, scoring at a better rate at a higher level. Larin's game has evolved a great deal since his early days in MLS. He has become a very complete player and it's not just about the goals anymore. He does a great job setting up his teammates, his holdup play can be a key part of the team's buildup and his defensive contributions are often overlooked. I'd be curious as to how Belogun compares across all those attributes.

I haven't watched him but have read that he can create his own shots, so that's something in his locker that Larin doesn't really have.

[Obinna]

I wanna bring this back to Farsi for a second....

So it's been said that Buchanan, Johnston, and Laryea are all ahead of him (at least), thus he's could be looking at Canada and thinking perhaps he should go elsewhere for his international football.

Well, I am no Algeria expert, but I went to check out there roster to see what kind of players he may be up against:

Mehdi Leris is a 24/25 year old winger fullback playing for Sampdoria in Serie A. His TM value is 2.5 M

Den Kirkhof plays in Ligue 2 for Bastia. He's a 27 y/o right back. TM value is 1.5 M

Ait-Nouri plays with Wolves. He's a left wing/mid, so maybe not comparable? TM is a whopping 20 M 

Atal is 26 with Nice. Sounds more of a Farsi comparable position-wise. TM is 10 M (same as Eustaquio)

..........

I am going to just stop there. Someone else can pick it up if they'd like. Again, I have not watched these guys, but on paper this isn't obviously easier than getting into our team.

Club Brugge (12M), Celtic (6M), Nottingham Forest (2.5M)....or.......Nice (10M), Sampdoria (2.5M), Bastia (1.5M)? Maybe slightly harder to get into our team? Maybe? Not convinced that's the primary consideration, though I was open to that before I started digging in....

Cheers!

[DrunkOffPunch]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I watch a lot of Tactical Manager on YT and he repeatedly calls Larin a penalty box merchant and not in a flattering way. He's said he doesn't really rate him even back in his Orlando days. 

Add a couple years to your life and stop watching him. He’s garbage. IMO Larin’s been the most proven striker in CONCACAF in recent years.

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Add a couple years to your life and stop watching him. He’s garbage. IMO Larin’s been the most proven striker in CONCACAF in recent years.

I have actually drifted away from it, funny enough. But thanks nonetheless!

[MauditYvon]

Jaden De Guzman

[trc2014]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:32 PM, Obinna said:

I wanna bring this back to Farsi for a second....

So it's been said that Buchanan, Johnston, and Laryea are all ahead of him (at least), thus he's could be looking at Canada and thinking perhaps he should go elsewhere for his international football.

Well, I am no Algeria expert, but I went to check out there roster to see what kind of players he may be up against:

Mehdi Leris is a 24/25 year old winger fullback playing for Sampdoria in Serie A. His TM value is 2.5 M

Den Kirkhof plays in Ligue 2 for Bastia. He's a 27 y/o right back. TM value is 1.5 M

Ait-Nouri plays with Wolves. He's a left wing/mid, so maybe not comparable? TM is a whopping 20 M 

Atal is 26 with Nice. Sounds more of a Farsi comparable position-wise. TM is 10 M (same as Eustaquio)

..........

I am going to just stop there. Someone else can pick it up if they'd like. Again, I have not watched these guys, but on paper this isn't obviously easier than getting into our team.

Club Brugge (12M), Celtic (6M), Nottingham Forest (2.5M)....or.......Nice (10M), Sampdoria (2.5M), Bastia (1.5M)? Maybe slightly harder to get into our team? Maybe? Not convinced that's the primary consideration, though I was open to that before I started digging in....

Cheers!

To Farsi’s credit, has he himself actually said anything regarding this?  In reality he might be more inclined to focus on club and the Canada vs. Algeria thing is literally just keeping his options open and something he doesn’t want to focus on at the moment (similar to Hoilett).