2017 Toronto FC season (aka the 2017 MLS Cup clinching thread)

[DannyFromToronto23]

Why is spencer still on tfc 

[badname22]

1 hour ago, DannyFromToronto23 said:

Why is spencer still on tfc 

Because of Vanney's bias, his only flaw 

[Bison44]

Geesh....this isnt Fergie or Guardiola we are talking about.  He's got 3.5 seasons under his belt, lets wait until he has some fu'zz on his peaches before he gets annointed.  

[jpg75]

Vanney: Flawless yet biased

[Bdog]

When do finals tickets go on sale if when we win?

[Gian-Luca]

Ok, so who wants to lay odds that Altidore can't recover from his injury in time for the final and Ben Spencer starts in his place?

Oh and Vanney, if you go 3-5-2 again to start the final, please start one of Hasler or Edwards so that there's at least player on the flanks who can beat his mean to the outside, beat a man one-on-one or move dangerously to the inside if need be. And play Hagglund instead of your nephew please.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

7 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Ok, so who wants to lay odds that Altidore can't recover from his injury in time for the final and Ben Spencer starts in his place?

...

Think all the indications of late have been that Tosaint Ricketts would get the playing time under that scenario. Spencer wasn't even on the bench last night unless I am greatly mistaken?

[Chad_Impact]

This is pretty low..

[Gian-Luca]

39 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think all the indications of late have been that Tosaint Ricketts would get the playing time under that scenario. Spencer wasn't even on the bench last night unless I am greatly mistaken?

He wasn't, but he was on the bench instead of the much more productive & prolific Hamilton in the first leg when Jozy was suspended and Vanney's often talked about how he thinks Spencer is the team's logical back-up for Altidore as a target man to play alongside Giovinco. It would be a nightmare, but sadly it could happen.

[Jith12]

1 hour ago, Chad_Impact said:

This is pretty low..

This is coming from a Montreal fan. To be fair, we were chanting "Save the Crew" last week.

[AvroArrow]

TFC has looked like a much different team in the playoffs, in that the free flowing offense seems to be stalling.  I guess it could be because its the playoffs, so therefore TFC is playing better teams and their opponents are also playing much more conservative and defensive football.  Hopefully its not because teams have figured them out.

[Ivan]

4 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Ok, so who wants to lay odds that Altidore can't recover from his injury in time for the final and Ben Spencer starts in his place?

Oh and Vanney, if you go 3-5-2 again to start the final, please start one of Hasler or Edwards so that there's at least player on the flanks who can beat his mean to the outside, beat a man one-on-one or move dangerously to the inside if need be. And play Hagglund instead of your nephew please.

Spencer over Hamilton is an absolute travesty.

However, to be fair, I find Morrow and Beita to be much better defensively than Hasler and Edwards, even though Morrow couldn't cross a ball to save his life.  TFC had a hard time finding their wingers last night, so either the Crew cut off the supply line or TFC insisted on trying to service Giovinco and Altidore through the middle into double and triple coverage.  Hard to imagine the Crew being able to cover the middle and flanks as well as they did so my gut tells me they were ignoring the flanks and TFC wasn't taking advantage.  Again, balls on the flank to Morrow is where they go to die.  Beita, although better, is not the offensive talent Hasler is.  I think in a one-off, I start Morrow and Beita.

Hagglund is much better than Zavaletta.  Maybe not in shape yet after the long layoff? 

[Gian-Luca]

8 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Spencer over Hamilton is an absolute travesty.

However, to be fair, I find Morrow and Beita to be much better defensively than Hasler and Edwards, even though Morrow couldn't cross a ball to save his life.  TFC had a hard time finding their wingers last night, so either the Crew cut off the supply line or TFC insisted on trying to service Giovinco and Altidore through the middle into double and triple coverage.  Hard to imagine the Crew being able to cover the middle and flanks as well as they did so my gut tells me they were ignoring the flanks and TFC wasn't taking advantage.  Again, balls on the flank to Morrow is where they go to die.  Beita, although better, is not the offensive talent Hasler is.  I think in a one-off, I start Morrow and Beita.

They are both better defensively but I think you gain more offensively than you lose defensively with either Edwards and Hasler over Morrow & Beitashour (despite Morrow's 8 tap ins this year). I think Morrow & Beitashour  as a tandem is too defensive (neither of them are born attackers IMO), but one of those two with one of Edwards & Hasler gets the balance right.

Otherwise, go to a 4-4-2 and drop the formation. What I am finding is in the past couple of months teams have figured out how to solve TFC with the 3-5-2 with Morrow and Beitashour because they are both easy to defend as they lack the speed and one-on-one skills to beat you (it is not helped when you have Zavaleta taking an ice-age to pass the ball forward) teams are overloading the middle of the park and outnumbering the central midfield trio of Bradley-Vazquez-Delgado/Osorio. TFC can't build the attack as a result and we see a reduction in the number of goals they have scored. The same will happen in the MLS Cup final (whether it's Seattle or Houston) if they play that formation with that personnel.

Speaking of Delgado, I have to admit TFC caught a break at the end on a play I didn't see or notice properly live, but watching it on the Instant Replay feature on the website,  I think he could have easily been called for a foul in the box on a wild flying studs up challenge. He's not inspiring me with confidence at the moment as I'm not sure what he was thinking of on the play (it's most likely that he wasn't thinking). TFC could play a 4-4-2 with Edwards or Hasler playing above either Morrow or Beitashour.

[Jith12]

I feel that Marky was better today than he was in prior games these playoffs. But Osorio played quite well, he didn't make too many mistakes. I wouldn't be surprised if Vanney gives Osorio the start again.

[jpg75]

Berhalter's switch to a 3-4-2-1 seemed to cause alot of problems. They outnumbered our strikers in the middle (Mensah was tough on Gio) and usually bracketed our AM's so as to direct the ball to the wingbacks from our defenders. It was up to Morrow and Beita to take advantage of the 1 on 1's and they didn't.

[AvroArrow]

42 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

 

Speaking of Delgado, I have to admit TFC caught a break at the end on a play I didn't see or notice properly live, but watching it on the Instant Replay feature on the website,  I think he could have easily been called for a foul in the box on a wild flying studs up challenge. He's not inspiring me with confidence at the moment as I'm not sure what he was thinking of on the play (it's most likely that he wasn't thinking). TFC could play a 4-4-2 with Edwards or Hasler playing above either Morrow or Beitashour.

Was that Delgado who did that?  I saw that and thought a pk was about to be called.  Maybe the ref didn't see it because it was so long after the ball had left?  Rec league players aren't that dumb....

[harrycoyster]

6 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Berhalter's switch to a 3-4-2-1 seemed to cause alot of problems. They outnumbered our strikers in the middle (Mensah was tough on Gio) and usually bracketed our AM's so as to direct the ball to the wingbacks from our defenders. It was up to Morrow and Beita to take advantage of the 1 on 1's and they didn't.

It was more of a 3-3-3-1 in practice. I remember seeing an average position chart tweeted out by one of the MLS guys at half and Osorio had a higher average position than Altidore did.

[jpg75]

3 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

It was more of a 3-3-3-1 in practice. I remember seeing an average position chart tweeted out by one of the MLS guys at half and Osorio had a higher average position than Altidore did.

I'm talking about Columbus.

[Rocket Robin]

My take on last night's game...

http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoronto.com/reports17/17tfc043.htm

(I don't talk about TFC on this board but do about TFC II and League 1 Ontario but I don't know if this will  get onto Northern Starting XI while it's still news. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

I thought TFC was as poor as Crew made them look, they were not very effective getting past the midfield control in the 1st half. Crew defended the TFC system very effectively and made the team look much less offensive. But I give them credit for taking it like a safe to crack, making adjustments, and eventually getting the goal. TFC was the better team IMO both halves, and I still feel it is the only team in MLS you watch really expecting them to do something special. Which was the goal, very top quality. 

TFC being so dominant this year, rivals have spent more time analyzing them than vice versa. That has to change for the final, since Toronto won't lose anything by doing so, don't think. None of us could bear seeing Sounders win the thing a second time, such an obnoxious team and the league's most arrogant fans by far.

 

[BearcatSA]

I thought the Crew played a great tactical match and they had their chances to take it but failed to convert.  Apart from that one excellent play late where he stripped Bradley than crossed a superb ball into the box which really should have been converted, Meram had a poor match, missing two gilt edged chances.

The subs made important contributions to the match so that was good to see from a whole team stand point. However,  I felt that Santos got too much joy down the TFC right side in the first half and I think the Jones/Tolo combo could pose problems in the final.  As mentioned above, the interplay on the goal was top notch and worthy of a match winner.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Not bad given the opposition this time was the Crew rather than the Impact.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Even with the international break, MLS manages this last month of the season terribly. It is all very anti-climax, sorry to say. I am into it, but for most fans I think they stall it too much, interest is lost, playoff momentum is lost, the narrative of the playoffs is lost too, the tension from the previous game is forgotten. 

For the life of me, last weekend (Nov. 26-27) all the major leagues played full hilt with international players having returned on the Wed or Thurs even, and then, this midweek, cup games. Plenty of football, then Champions this midweek.

MLS stalls the semi return until midweek on poor nights, and then we have to wait 11 days for a final. Why couldn't they have done it a weekend and then this past weekend? It'd be over already. They let all this other stuff take over from them, WC draw, and then European leagues had great story lines this weekend (PSG loss, Benavento goal by the keeper vs Milan, most of the leading Spain league teams losing points to lesser sides) and MLS just got shredded by them and pushed to the side. 

It irritates me as you have to script it better, you have to keep attention high. Even their website is more boring than ever. And look at this thread, also drying up at times. 

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

MLS stalls the semi return until midweek on poor nights, and then we have to wait 11 days for a final. Why couldn't they have done it a weekend and then this past weekend?

Just asking, but I wonder if they need to have a few extra days to set up logistical stuff like accommodations because the final isn't at a pre-determined location?  That would be the only reason to have that long a wait.  If not, then they are doing a good job of making the final an afterthought for any neutral MLS watchers.

[harrycoyster]

1 minute ago, BearcatSA said:

Just asking, but I wonder if they need to have a few extra days to set up logistical stuff like accommodations because the final isn't at a pre-determined location?  That would be the only reason to have that long a wait.  If not, then they are doing a good job of making the final an afterthought for any neutral MLS watchers.

Yup, Garber has publicly stated that the logistics of MLS Cup are tricky, especially when cross-border travel is involved. It's why most single game finals use a predetermined location. In my opinion, the playoff format and the international break are the two biggest hindrances to the playoffs. But I don't think there is a consensus on how to solve those problems.