2017 Toronto FC season (aka the 2017 MLS Cup clinching thread)

[Jith12]

16 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

This footage of the fight certainly supports the claim that the NYRB players were not even in the right part of the dressing room areas in the first place, hence you can hear (who I think is) Bradley screaming "Why are you here?"

I am not sure who from TFC shouts "Get the fuck out of here!" at the 1:11 mark of this video, but whoever it was, Kevin McKenna would be proud.

I do see Bradley Wright-Phillips throwing a punch at Jon Conway, the goalkeeper coach for TFC.

What is the MLS appeals process for red cards? Is there a committee that looks over the play? Also, is this the video that we are sending to MLS? If it is there doesn't seem to much evidence to overturn any cards.

[BearcatSA]

24 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

And yet the replay showed he was not offside and the play was referred for video review.

And VAR decided there wasn't enough to overturn the RA's decision.  No doubt, a really close call. 

[Free kick]

16 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Just watched it - Neither goal, nor the Giovinco pk shout, nor the obvious trip of Altidore outside the box were shown. I guess the MLS website editor is a biased American or the PRO Referees have more power than I thought

I think its the “defend the referee at all time” edict that you get with leagues and the rights holders.  You see this in other sports as well.  They dont allow coaches to blast referees in press conference anymore. As for broadcaster, they may mention a poor ref performance or call by the leave there and dont insist on it.  

[Free kick]

56 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

There were also additional seats added in the north corners (in some ugly looking tent-things with the fans encased in glass) and behind the south end (an even uglier tent-canopy thing with the fans also encased in glass). I am glad they were able to add in extra seats and increase the capacity for the sell out but I am also glad I wasn't sitting in those glass cases

Yeah, i really hated that tent.    To me RedBull stadium is what every MLS stadium should look like.  Fully enclosed and no empty spaces in the corners.  And no freaking tents!   Also None of that crap that you see with the blue seats (that look like lazy boy chairs) near the touchlines on the east stands.  That makes the place look like a picnic venue and judging by the people you see there,  they might as well be on  picnic. 

[Vic]

The bizarre part was when Giovinco came in from the back and axed the 18 year-old kid's legs (which should have been his card right there) and the kid got up without saying a word and Altidore (who wasn't involved in the play and who's twice the kid's size) get's right in the kid's face and starts screaming at him.  Think about if someone did that to an 18 year-old kid you were playing with. It's probably only going to end up one way.

[rkomar]

I'm not sure there are any leagues that would highlight incompetence.  TFC won the series anyway, so better to just sweep it under the rug.

[jpg75]

4 minutes ago, Vic said:

The bizarre part was when Giovinco came in from the back and axed the 18 year-old kid's legs (which should have been his card right there) and the kid got up without saying a word and got in Giovinco's face and Altidore (who wasn't involved in the play and who's twice the kid's size) get's right in the kid's face and starts screaming at him.  Think about if someone did that to an 18 year-old kid you were playing with. It's probably only going to end up one way.

FYP.

[Vic]

3 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

FYP.

No you didn't. He stood up quickly and Giovinco was on the ground.  He didn't get in his face.

 

[Vic]

OK just watched it again. He didn't get in his face but he baited him by standing over him, that's probably fair to both views.  And it's an 18 year-old kid who just got butchered and a 30 year-old man.  And still doesn't explain the bizarreness from Altidore.

 

[TRM]

17 minutes ago, Vic said:

The bizarre part was when Giovinco came in from the back and axed the 18 year-old kid's legs (which should have been his card right there) and the kid got up without saying a word and Altidore (who wasn't involved in the play and who's twice the kid's size) get's right in the kid's face and starts screaming at him.  Think about if someone did that to an 18 year-old kid you were playing with. It's probably only going to end up one way.

That was the most surreal moment I've seen in a long time. WTF was Altidore thinking? Was he thinking? Total douchebag or "roid-rage"??

An 18 year old with more discipline than a vet. I mean the kid didn't even go after Gio, he just got up and was going to carry on. 

[Free kick]

2 minutes ago, Vic said:

OK just watched it again. He didn't get in his face but he baited him by standing over him, that's probably fair to both views.  And it's an 18 year-old kid who just got butchered and a 30 year-old man.  And still doesn't explain the bizarreness from Altidore.

 

This is a professional competition.   Both players and getting paid to ply and are earning a living from the sport.  and are playing for their contract.   If the 18 year old was child, he would not have been put on the pitch

[jpg75]

Boo hoo TFC got into a bunch of heated moments with a rival. Fuck off. Your teams are sitting at home because your FO and coaches suck balls. Who gives a shit if Jozy lost his shit tonight. That's OUR problem, not yours. And you know what? It's probably not going to be a big problem because we have Ricketts. So suck a dick.

[Vic]

Uhm I'm a TFC fan. And who the hell talks like that?  Really. Are you 13 years old?

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

This footage of the fight certainly supports the claim that the NYRB players were not even in the right part of the dressing room areas in the first place, hence you can hear (who I think is) Bradley screaming "Why are you here?"

I am not sure who from TFC shouts "Get the fuck out of here!" at the 1:11 mark of this video, but whoever it was, Kevin McKenna would be proud.

I do see Bradley Wright-Phillips throwing a punch at Jon Conway, the goalkeeper coach for TFC.

I think it was Vanney lol

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Yup, I saw quite a few empty seats on tv, whatever the attendance numbers you are hawking down might say. And I am talking late 2nd half. Or maybe I was just obsessed about red spots with no people in them.

The axe, as you call it, was pulled out by TFC fans regarding the first leg, just look above on this same thread. Just seems a bit hypocritical to be remarking on poor NYRB support and then playing invisible when it's your turn.

Well apparently there was 10,000 more people at BMO. Are you suggesting those numbers are fake?

[Gian-Luca]

3 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

And VAR decided there wasn't enough to overturn the RA's decision.  No doubt, a really close call. 

The problem is that once the play is restarted, the VAR loses any chance to have his say, and NYRB put the ball into play again almost right away. It's a flaw in the process. The VAR may (and now having seen the play on the replays, should) have flagged this for the Ref to review because Osorio was definitely on-side - Long, the furthest back of the three NYRB confronting Giovinco, definitely plays him on. But it's only the third replay angle they show which proves that and I bet by the time the VAR sees that, the game is back on and there isn't anything the VAR can do about it.

[BearcatSA]

20 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

The problem is that once the play is restarted, the VAR loses any chance to have his say, and NYRB put the ball into play again almost right away. It's a flaw in the process. The VAR may (and now having seen the play on the replays, should) have flagged this for the Ref to review because Osorio was definitely on-side - Long, the furthest back of the three NYRB confronting Giovinco, definitely plays him on. But it's only the third replay angle they show which proves that and I bet by the time the VAR sees that, the game is back on and there isn't anything the VAR can do about it.

I only saw the replay where the camera was closest to being in line with the AR and even then the angle had enough distortion/variance not to prove anything conclusive to overturn the AR's decision.  Agree to disagree, I guess.  Really close call:  if I was in the AR's shoes maybe I would see it differently or maybe I would have seen some daylight between Osorio and the last Energy Drink who knows?

Have to say that the on and off field shenanigans made this a riveting watch for the neutral fan.

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, Obinna said:

Well apparently there was 10,000 more people at BMO. Are you suggesting those numbers are fake?

Behind the TFC goal first half there were more empty seats than full. But I think those were fake empty seats, while the ones many here wrote about at NYRB were real empty seats. I will eventually figure out the difference. 

I am glad you were full on your own terms, that is what is most important.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Jozy did not want to play any more games in the US with the heckling he received at New York, this has been played up in press and comments and forums and is a major topic of discussion the US. I am not going to go through everything I read and lay it out, but it is a fair interpretation I think, and makes sense, and I read it, I did not invent it. He and Bradley received a a lot of F-off and other classy insults, which he was not happy about but accepted as fair, even though he did say that having played there he expected more. This also explains part of his gripe with Klejstan, who is a marginal player for the USMNT and defended his fans against TFC US player complaints. 

And then there was direct harrassment for him not showing any signs of patriotism when the anthem is played, like hand on heart, taken as a demonstration that he does not feel American and did not care to fight for the US so they could make the World Cup. And why does he work harder for TFC than for the US, and a lot of similar stuff. Why he helped let T&T& win. As the press has clearly stated, he is from a Jehovah's Witness family where traditionally you should not respect flags and anthems, no other authority than the Lord, and there is a long history of pacificism as well, take it as you will. Some say it was one or a few people at NYRB stadium onto this, or more, it could have been a minority behind the TFC bench.

Even if he did not directly expel himself, and accepting there were many ways to do so (dumb late time-wasting yellow added to a first card), he was obviously irritated and volatile, even more so than usual. He was not unaware that he was in a situation to be carded and lose that leg, but persisted anyways. It was deliberate indiscipline. 

As I say, this has been fully covered in the US press and by commentators and fans, and it seems logical. You have 90% of posts here saying "it was illogical" and "what was he thinking", and "he's a nut case" "crazy", "bad example", what you want. I can accept all those as well reasoned explanations, even though they make zero sense to me and sound like amateur pop psychology. Or plain just talking out of your ass. Or I can suggest the kind of heckling he might expect at Columbus would be something he'd prefer to avoid, regardless of whether they would really be as harsh  (part probably imitating the RB crowd, as I think they are not usually as rude and have other concerns in Columbus these days, such as last match at home, ever?).

Deliberately looking for cards to exempt oneself from playing a particular game, and not just to clear the accumulated cards slate for a future knock-out round (more habitual): I have seen that a lot, starting with Brazilians getting a card in the match before Xmas to avoid having to return from holiday so early,  and so on. To avoid national matches in hard away settings when there is little to play for. Rarely, admittedly, when real results are on line, like here, but not unconceivable. 

Now you can say I continue to be deluded and conspirational and that Jozy is just one wild guy who does things that make no sense at all in any way shape or form. 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just to leave a final one: this entire thread since the match has consisted in

1-empty seats which were in fact "full"

2-goals not scored which were in fact "goals"

3-deliberate behaviour which was in fact "uncontrolled madness"

Sounds more like Leafs fans in pure fantasy mode than of a team favoured to win and with everything in their favour to do so (eg Atlanta and NYCFC knocked out, final at home).

[gator]

13 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Sherm..I dont think Bradley was the guy to settle Altidore down as he got a yellow probably a minute before Jozy got his red.  Not sure what Vanney was doing, I sure would like to know exaclty what happened in the tunnel.  Overall, ugly game, they were lucky not to lose it.  They will be lucky to get much in that next game with the suspensions.  

And if they call up Spencer for that game and not Hamilton...my head really will explode.  

You know this will be the case, Vanney constantly says Spencer is a better replacement for Altidore even though he is poor in the air and cannot score!

[1996]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just to leave a final one: this entire thread since the match has consisted in

1-empty seats which were in fact "full"

2-goals not scored which were in fact "goals"

3-deliberate behaviour which was in fact "uncontrolled madness"

Sounds more like Leafs fans in pure fantasy mode than of a team favoured to win and with everything in their favour to do so (eg Atlanta and NYCFC knocked out, final at home).

Just want to talk about all the supposedly empty seats at the TFC NY Red Bulls game at BMO Field I was at the game the place was packed, of course like always people took forever getting to their seats , so therefore, the first 15 or so minutes of the game you saw a lot of empty seats but it eventually filled in nicely, and as usual at the start of the second half you saw a lot of empty seats  because people taking their time getting back to their seats. However, from being at the game and from watching the highlights once everyone got to their seats the place was packed, and I'm sorry but the first game at the NY Red Bulls at Red Bull Arena that place was about half empty for the entire game no comparison. However, what I will agree with one of your earlier posts from attending TFC games since they started in 2007 with a game I saw in Milan this summer at their stadium San Siro a Europa League qualifying game in front of about close to over 60 000 AC Milan fans, the main difference I saw compared to the fans at TFC games at BMO is that people seem to stay in their seats more during both half's, and seem to leave their seats only during half time , when the game is going on you hardly see people leaving their seats to get refreshments or go to the bathroom or whatever, unlike in Toronto at BMO where people are constantly leaving their seats a lot more during the game, I mean at San Siro in Milan this summer I had to get up during the first half to go to the washroom  and when I got to the washroom I was the only one in there, in Toronto at BMO whenever I've gone to the washroom while the half is still going on the washroom is packed with people. In North America  there are still people that watch soccer like they watch the other major sports here,  soccer is a game of continuous play, soccer is a game that even with halftime included only takes about two hours to play you can be in and out of a game in two hours that's it, compare with the other sports where you can be there at a stadium for over 3 hours, so with only two hours of a game to attend it baffles me how a lot of people can't seem to stay in their seats and watch the damn game here in North America.

[BuzzAndSting]

The accusations that JA deliberately took a card to skip the next game is insane.

I suspect all the intensity and foolishness on TFCs part may come from an "us vs the world" mentality. It's very common for the coaches of teams entering the playoffs to us this mentality as a motivator, that's why you see so many comments about the underdog, or getting no respect, or showing something in the generic cliches spouted by professional athletes. After the incidents in NY, combined with being the team for Canada in a league dominated by American media and teams it's possible Vanney has employed this kind of mentality and it's manifested itself in these altercations.

[Jith12]

11 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think it was Vanney lol

Oh God, we don't need Vanney suspended too!

[BuzzAndSting]

14 hours ago, Jith12 said:

What is the MLS appeals process for red cards? Is there a committee that looks over the play? Also, is this the video that we are sending to MLS? If it is there doesn't seem to much evidence to overturn any cards.

I highly doubt this is the video they're sending in. Vanney said they were looking for the initial "ambush" by NYRB players on security footage. This is a fan video and does nothing to prove their case. And yes there's a discipline committee who can review cards and rescind them.