Unnamed Trialist Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I appreciate this, I was surprised to hear of such a severe drop off, and appreciate both observations. Especially since you´d think the academy level is good in Holland, and then, Go Ahead being a well-known team. I think that even if you do say that play is not great in 2nd tier, can it be worse than Portugal? It has to be better than Scotland, any of the Scandinavia nations, as good as Belgium. Austria, too. I must say I was suprised last time in Amsterdam, they were away so I looked for a lower division team to watch, and there is no alternative in Amsterdam, I was stunned. Just their 2nd team. I find that really odd, it changes my mind about the real strength of football in that city. And even if it the level were not so great for 2nd tier, saying you are playing for Go Ahead Eagles, sounds good to most European football ears. From what I can see their chances of promoting are good, there are four teams that are youth squads, and most others are more modest, only Graafschap, Breda, Dordrecht, Fortuna Sittard have anything close to their history, Cambuur maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 NAC Breda was promoted this season. In fact, they have won a "periode" title, as they actually ended the season 9th place. NEC was a perennial Eredivise side, but they have relegated this season. I think overall the level of play is pretty good, especially considering the payroll (about 1-1,5 mil for most teams. My guess is the Eagles are above that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycoyster Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 10 hours ago, shamrock said: Yes the drop-off is huge, but 1) weekly contracts? That's just not true. But what do you mean with winning promotion from the bottom of the table? 2) There's a number of periods during the season, winning any of them qualifies you for promotion playoffs. So in theory you could finish in the bottom of the table but still have a chance to promotion. Also your last statement is just not true. 3) Now it depends on what you call professional, but any team in the Eerste Divisie needs to have a certain number of fully professional players. Additionally, there's a few players which can be amateurs. But to say that only 5 of the Eerste Divisie are professional, that's really a far stretch. 1) There are a number of players in the Eerste Divisie last season who were on weekly deals (loans that could be terminated in full at any time). Go look at a lower-end Eerste Divisie side's roster from last season, many have upwards of 35 players on their season roster despite only ever having 25 active players at one time and a large number of these trail-esque loan deals. Shane O'Neill at NAC Breda is an American example, albeit one that ended up being very successful. 2) That is exactly what I was referring to. All you need to do is have a decent stretch of games, and as long as you are only below the numerous youth sides and other teams that have already qualified, you're into the playoff. It's a very forgiving league for decent sides. 3) I guess we have different definitions of professional then. As I understand it, there aren't many Eerste Divisie teams that have 25 men on paid season-long contracts. Most of those that do, get promoted or run out of money and become bottom feeders (hence my use of the word stable) due to the league's low attendance and lack of a significant TV deal. You may have a better understanding of the league than me, I'm just repeating what I know from following Canadian and American movement in and out of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 Attendance might be low, but you must remember what "cities" we are talking about here. Dutch cities aren't Canadian cities there's pro teams representing places with less than 100k inhabitants (Like the aforementioned Fortuna SC). Still drawing 3000-4000 in a bad season, which is fine I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 12 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: ...I must say I was suprised last time in Amsterdam, they were away so I looked for a lower division team to watch, and there is no alternative in Amsterdam, I was stunned. Just their 2nd team. I find that really odd, it changes my mind about the real strength of football in that city... Definitely strange that the smaller Amsterdam fully pro level clubs that existed in the 1960s fell away completely while Sparta and Excelsior kept going in Rotterdam. Even Eindhoven still has a second club besides PSV. I think Almere City are basically an Amsterdam team that moved out to the 'burbs to try to build a following away from Ajax's shadow but i forget the gory details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycoyster Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 24 minutes ago, shamrock said: Attendance might be low, but you must remember what "cities" we are talking about here. Dutch cities aren't Canadian cities there's pro teams representing places with less than 100k inhabitants (Like the aforementioned Fortuna SC). Still drawing 3000-4000 in a bad season, which is fine I think. I'm not disagreeing. I'm just stating why the second division is such a big drop off from the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 He has signed a 1 year contract with the Eagles. Think it's a very nice club for him to be at. Really nice old fashioned stadium with great fans. http://www.ga-eagles.nl/go-ahead-eagles-strikt-canadees-international-lavere-corbin-ong/ BCM, Ivanovski94, hamiltonfan and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) The fans are gonna love him with his energetic rushes, long throw-ins and remarkable hairstyle. They've seem to have put together a promising group at Deventer, and might be battling for direct promotion this year with NEC Nijmegen. Edited July 3, 2017 by shamrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheatsheafSK Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 On 7/2/2017 at 3:31 PM, harrycoyster said: I'm not disagreeing. I'm just stating why the second division is such a big drop off from the first. You have said a lot more that Eerste divisie is a big drop off from the Eredivisie. No one disagrees with that point, and Unnamed Trialist made a good point that the Eerste is not much different from tier 2 in other countries. Eerste divisie may be a drop down in quality from the Eredivisie, but it is still good landing spot from someone who wants to develop and get noticed. Heck, I doubt Aron Winter's TFC could have beat most Eerste divisie sides. At the same time, and at the risk of contracting myself, I am not sure there is much difference between top Eerste divisie and lower Eredivisie. Yes, Eerste divisie teams compete against top reserve sides. However, that is a recent event, the reserve sides have to qualify for the Eerste divisie, and aside from last year, those teams are usually in the bottom half (i.e. Ajax II's success was an anomaly just like Barcelona II's success in the Segunda in 2011 was). Those teams that qualify for the promotion playoffs have to compete against the 16 and 17th placed teams in the Eredivisie, and they often beat them just like Breda this year. All to say, it is weak to say Eerste is a weaker division because they have reserve sides and there is no competition. Eerste divisie is a great spring board. Teams at that level tend me focused on youth and technical ability. It has been a while, but it used to be considered a positive when a Canadian played in that league. Marcel de Jong for example started at Helmond Sport, before moving up Roda and then over to Augsburg. Several players make the jump up to Eredivisie every year. Vincent Janssen is a well known example to have gone from Almere City to AZ to Tottenham in a couple of years. As to whether it is professional or not, the KNVB require all teams to acquire a professional licence and meet the requirements to do so. That was one of the sticking points for teams in the old Topklasse (replaced by the Tweede divisie last year) where those teams did not want to meet the professional designation standards if promoted, and the KNVB had to relent to make promotion optional. So a team that has a professional licence, pays its players, and maintains appropriate facilities meets the definition of professionalism. Coming back on topic, this is a good landing spot for Corbin-Ong. A good club in a league that focuses on developing players. kohanz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 There's plenty of examples, Dries Mertens played 3 season for AGOVV and now captains Napoli. Huntelaar is another (same former club). Few examples of players though who enter at age 26 and then have such a development. Regarding the drop-off, the gap has become smaller, mainly because the level of the eredivisie has dropped a lot. Players tend to leave earlier than before. WheatsheafSK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Curious - has there been an instance (and allowance) where a second team (ex., Barca II) has won a promotion for top flight in any country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheatsheafSK Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 1 hour ago, hamiltonfan said: Curious - has there been an instance (and allowance) where a second team (ex., Barca II) has won a promotion for top flight in any country? I am not aware of any. Generally a b team is not allowed to play in the same division as the top team. If Barcelona were to be relegated, than BII is automatically relegated as well. There has been instances where a b team was permitted to play in cup competitions despite the presence of of the top team. KNVB used to permit this in the cup competition where it once led a b team advancing further than top team and thereby allowing the top team to switch in players to the b team later on (I want to say it was Utrecht, but don't quote me on that). hamiltonfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Here's a hypothetical which would likely never happen, and possibly wouldn't be allowed to happen. The A team is in danger of being relegated, but the B team is top of the table in the 2nd tier. They could shift their resources to put more focus on the 2nd tier to have the two teams swap places. A team is relegated, B team is promoted, still neither are in the same league but the B team is now ahead of the A team. hamiltonfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 14 minutes ago, Kent said: Here's a hypothetical which would likely never happen, and possibly wouldn't be allowed to happen. The A team is in danger of being relegated, but the B team is top of the table in the 2nd tier. They could shift their resources to put more focus on the 2nd tier to have the two teams swap places. A team is relegated, B team is promoted, still neither are in the same league but the B team is now ahead of the A team. I think that's why they have rules.. B-teams can never promote pass/to the level of their A-team and if the A-team gets relegated to the tier where the B-team is playing, the B-team would get relegated too. Kent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 On 4-7-2017 at 6:47 PM, shamrock said: There's plenty of examples, Dries Mertens played 3 season for AGOVV and now captains Napoli. Huntelaar is another (same former club). Few examples of players though who enter at age 26 and then have such a development. Which is very logical. Better players are snapped up earlier. Keisuke Honda (Milan) and Nacer Chadli (West Brom) are also two other other players who played in the Dutch Jupiler League when they were younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 A couple of weeks ago in a friendly, Corbin Ong suffered an ankle injury which will keep him out for 5 or 6 weeks https://doorfansvoorfans.org/2017/07/13/corbin-ong-gae-scheurt-enkelband-en-is-vijf-tot-zes-weken-niet-inzetbaar/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toje Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) He has signed with JDT who are the current Malaysian champions. His mom is originally from Malaysia, so he counts as a local. http://www.goal.com/en/news/who-is-lavere-corbin-ong-jdts-shiny-new-left-back/1vqekvhxtzv2r1pl00wmukv33z Edited November 24, 2017 by Toje Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toje Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) delete please Edited November 24, 2017 by Toje Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince193 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 wow well that ends his chance at an NT career. saladroit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Toje said: He has signed with JDT who are the current Malaysian champions. His mom is originally from Malaysia, so he counts as a local. http://www.goal.com/en/news/who-is-lavere-corbin-ong-jdts-shiny-new-left-back/1vqekvhxtzv2r1pl00wmukv33z What the ??!! Why? Unless he is planning to join the Malaysian national team, it seems like a big step backwards career-wise. Not sure what OZ thinks of Corbin-Ong but he seemed to be in the running for left back. Kadenge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCM Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, ray said: What the ??!! Why? Unless he is planning to join the Malaysian national team, it seems like a big step backwards career-wise. Not sure what OZ thinks of Corbin-Ong but he seemed to be in the running for left back. Relax, Malaysia doesn't allow dual nationals. They're very strict on this... I wouldn't take the article as the truth - it calls him "naturalised", which he wouldn't have to be if he received citizenship from his mother. In addition, if he did just receive his citizenship he wouldn't have had it when he played for Canada and thus would still not be eligible for Malaysia. In short, I highly doubt he has given up Canadian and British citizenship to sign this contract and count as a local Malaysian player. Edited November 24, 2017 by BCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) That link doesn't work. Is the Malaysian transfer window open right now? Something seems weird about this... edit: this link works http://www.espnfc.com/blog/football-asia/153/post/3282222/jdt-sign-canadian-defender-corbin-ong-from-dutch-second-tier Geez, what an underwhelming move...guess he thought Go Ahead were not promoting so "fuck it i'll take the money". Edited November 24, 2017 by jpg75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toje Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) His contract runs from Jan 1, 2018 until November 30, 2018 according to transfermarkt. JDT will enter the 2018 Asian Champions League in the 2nd preliminary round. Edited November 24, 2017 by Toje Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheatsheafSK Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Agree on the WTF. Odd career move - I am assuming that Go Ahead needed the money and Corbin-Ong saw some personal and professional benefits. Here is a local article that states that Corbin-Ong will continue to play for Go Ahead (including in today's game against Fortuna Sittard) until he joins up with JDT for January 1st: https://deventerrtv.nl/artikel/87421752/go-ahead-eagles-bereikt-overeenstemming-transfer-corbin-ong-naar-maleisie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 What are the odds this is better place for him than go ahead eagles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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