Canadian Premier League

[shermanator]

19 minutes ago, Pqhbv said:

Didn't CSEG just get a huge stumbling block with their stadium? I'm sure if that got passed we would here rumours from Calgary... 

Hoping for this CPL to happen sometimes makes me feel silly, but then again...

The CalgaryNEXT proposal has pretty close to a 0 percent chance of actually happening based on what has been submitted today. When CalgaryNEXT was originally proposed, CSEG projected a cost estimate of $890 million, with $200 million coming from the city and ~$250 million to be recouped through a CRL. The City of Calgary's report has the cost estimate of $1.8 billion, with $1.3 billion coming from the city.

Given the poor economic times in the city right now, coupled with the massive infrastructure debt that was created during the Klein / Duerr years that the city is trying to catch up on, this proposal is basically dead in the public's eyes.

[MtlMario]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think people need to bear in mind that Victor Montagliani made having a domestic pro league central to his stated motivation for gaining the CSA presidency. I believe his post is up for reelection at next month's AGM, so a perception of concrete activity in this regard needs to be viewed as possibly being motivated by that context. Then there is the whole 2026 World Cup bid angle and the probable need to have some kind of league in the pipeline to counter one of the obvious angles of attack from opposing bids. If it were anywhere close to actually happening there would be rumours and media stories from a lot more cities than just Hamilton.

I think we should hold back on the negativity until we hear all the facts. being negative never helps in any situation. Like I said in a earlier post, after so many years of suffering let us dream for now hoping it doesn't turn out to be a nightmare.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

2 hours ago, Pqhbv said:

Didn't CSEG just get a huge stumbling block with their stadium? I'm sure if that got passed we would here rumours from Calgary...

Think you have that backwards. The reason things went quiet there after the occasional media mention is that they thought they might not actually need soccer to make the stadium happen. Their potential interest in infrastucture money related to a successful World Cup bid to make that project fly is obvious and any losses involved with a D2 level pro soccer team to provide some sort of soccer legacy is small potatoes compared to the money that could be obtained to give their CFL team the home that they want for them.

 

[Blue and White Army]

2018 earliest. I would bet 2019.

It's coming. Be patient.

[nolbertos]

2 hours ago, Blue and White Army said:

2018 earliest. I would bet 2019.

It's coming. Be patient.

Its hard to be patient, 3 years of waiting for the league?? Or 3 years of having more NASL and USL teams.  I vote the latter.  Been patient for the last 20 plus almost.

[Macksam]

On April 30, 2016 at 9:32 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think people need to bear in mind that Victor Montagliani made having a domestic pro league central to his stated motivation for gaining the CSA presidency. I believe his post is up for reelection at next month's AGM, so a perception of concrete activity in this regard needs to be viewed as possibly being motivated by that context. Then there is the whole 2026 World Cup bid angle and the probable need to have some kind of league in the pipeline to counter one of the obvious angles of attack from opposing bids. If it were anywhere close to actually happening there would be rumours and media stories from a lot more cities than just Hamilton.

I think you're reading too much into all of this.

[grande]

I'm finding CanPL's glacial pace to be frustrating... In the US, a group called PRO Rugby started a fully professional rugby league. They announced it in November and their first game was two weeks ago. Less than six months from idea to execution.

Yes, there are only five teams to start. Yes, the attendances haven't been great (averaging about 4,000 per game, I think). Yes, some of the fields are small. But that's fine. They did something, and they're building to something better. They're talking about doubling the size of the league next season already.

Now we're talking about 2019 until kickoff for a league with (if the rumours are true) way more financial backing? Can we not start small, and grow? It doesn't have to be perfect, just give people a team to support, starting in areas where that doesn't yet exist.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Maybe worth noting that the expansion for Pro Rugby that you mention appears to involve Canada:

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/14088602/usa-rugby-takes-next-step-development-professional-league

While some details are still being finalised, starting in April 2016 six teams will compete in the Professional Rugby Organization -- shortened to PRO Rugby -- while in 2017 the league will expand to include Canadian teams to make this an inclusive North American competition.

 

 

[Rheo]

1 hour ago, grande said:

I'm finding CanPL's glacial pace to be frustrating... In the US, a group called PRO Rugby started a fully professional rugby league. They announced it in November and their first game was two weeks ago. Less than six months from idea to execution.

 

I wish the rugby league well but if they fold in a year or two what good does that do anyone.  I'd rather they make sure they're doing it right and it succeed.  Fools rush in...

[rob.notenboom]

I tweeted at Totera & Two Solitudes to get a bit of clarification but got no response unfortunately. Although it was only yesterday. Maybe I'll still get a response. 

[Complete Homer]

3 hours ago, grande said:

I'm finding CanPL's glacial pace to be frustrating... In the US, a group called PRO Rugby started a fully professional rugby league. They announced it in November and their first game was two weeks ago. Less than six months from idea to execution.

Yes, there are only five teams to start. Yes, the attendances haven't been great (averaging about 4,000 per game, I think). Yes, some of the fields are small. But that's fine. They did something, and they're building to something better. They're talking about doubling the size of the league next season already.

Now we're talking about 2019 until kickoff for a league with (if the rumours are true) way more financial backing? Can we not start small, and grow? It doesn't have to be perfect, just give people a team to support, starting in areas where that doesn't yet exist.

We've known about the existence of plans for a league (as per the Spectator), for months, not years. It feels long because we have been waiting for something like this for a long time, but that's really not a lot of time. 

In the end, the fate of any league that actually launches rests on its perceived legitimacy. If they need an extra year to be polished and ready to launch  with a league that your average Canadian can see is truly a pro league, so be it. Better than launching with what some would call a joke and never give a chance later on

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

John McGrane has been peddling the CPL idea for years now and the CSA have been pushing for the launch of a coast to coast domestic pro league off and on since Victor Montagliani became president in 2012. They have already been told once that it wasn't doable and to try a youth-focussed regional D3 instead when they hired a former national team player called Jim Easton to do a feasibility study.

[Gopherbashi]

2 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

We've known about the existence of plans for a league (as per the Spectator), for months, not years. It feels long because we have been waiting for something like this for a long time, but that's really not a lot of time. 

In the end, the fate of any league that actually launches rests on its perceived legitimacy. If they need an extra year to be polished and ready to launch  with a league that your average Canadian can see is truly a pro league, so be it. Better than launching with what some would call a joke and never give a chance later on

I feel like Rollins has been leaking bits of this story for at least a year.  First it was a 2016/2017 start.  Then it was a 2017/2018 start.  Now it's maybe a 2019 start.

 

I want this to happen but it feels like we're constantly spinning our wheels towards a start that's two years away.

[rob.notenboom]

3 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

I feel like Rollins has been leaking bits of this story for at least a year.  First it was a 2016/2017 start.  Then it was a 2017/2018 start.  Now it's maybe a 2019 start.

 

I want this to happen but it feels like we're constantly spinning our wheels towards a start that's two years away.

Was there not the suggestion that an announcement was 'imminent' and would potentially be in conjunction with the Gold Cup in Toronto? Or am I remembering that all wrong?

There was an article in the 2nd edition of Plastic Pitch where Mont Vic said that they were looking at a potential Div 1 Canadian league, and there is a discussion about that in the11, here: http://the11.ca/2014/06/18/montaglianis-vision-a-canadian-division-1a-that-coexists-with-mls-nasl/

So that's back almost two years.

[rob.notenboom]

edit: Here is the CSN article saying that the league will launch in 2017: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/24th-minute/league-is-coming-r5279

Doesn't say anything about an announcement during GC2015 but instead says late 2015 or early 2016 announcement.

[TRM]

No this nonsense of not letting anything happen while they do their "due diligence" again and again with promises that are never kept has been going on a lot more than a couple of years. This is just the latest round. The CSA put a moratorium on the sanctioning of new D2 and PDL from November 2010 until  October 2011. What came of that year? NOTHING but a wasted year.

Then in 2013 we had the Easton report which was sensible and could have been started within a year but what has happened? NOTHING. We still don't have regionalized Division 3 semi-pro structure, similar to the major junior hockey leagues in Canada, with regional champions competing in a national tournament.

So now we are told 2017 ... well maybe and if not then 2018 or 2019 for sure ... maybe. You are going to wait how long exactly? As long as there are vague promises or rumours just keep waiting? This whole fictitious Duane Rollins rumour league is nothing but a waste of time.

At what point do you say enough? It has been 6+ years and we don't even have a semi-pro D3 national tournament like the Easton report advocated and was (and still is) very doable.

Look when TFC joined MLS the CPL ship was leaving the dock. When Vancouver and Montreal joined it was just a distant ship's smoke on the horizon.

 

[Bison44]

Nice pink floyd touch there TRM.  

[TRM]

21 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Nice pink floyd touch there TRM.  

Glad you got it. I was thinking of "shorter of breath and one day closer to death" as the motto for the CPL but thought that would be a bit morbid.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Come on guys, we knew this wasn't going to happen overnight.  At least no news isn't bad news.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

In July 2014 we were being told that Hamilton and Calgary teams were expected to enter the NASL in 2015 in anticipation of the launch of a Canadian league in 2016 that would run in parallel with the NASL.

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/24th-minute/csa-cfl-and-nasl-to-launch-canadian-league-r4701

CSN has confirmed that the CSA is involved in negotiations with the CFL and NASL to launch an all-Canadian league...The league would likely begin play in 2016, which (sic) the possibility of up to two teams coming in for 2015 (Hamilton and Calgary have been suggested).

That scenario was a lot more credible than the launch of a new standalone league with no links to the US D2 setup. The motivation for the CFL and the NASL (when Traffic Sports were still heavily involved) was almost certainly tied into the 2026 World Cup bid.

Also worth noting that as far back as March 2010 we were being told by the usual suspects that a pro team was imminent in Hamilton:

http://www.metronews.ca/news/2010/03/15/nasl-planning-aggressive-expansion-into-canada.html

The other name who came up in the meeting is Bob Young, owner of the CFL's Hamilton Tiger Cats. Young, who co-owns the NASL Carolina Railhawks and whose company has been contracted to re-design the NASL website, has previously expressed interest in bringing a soccer team to Hamilton and while he has declined several requests for comment, it's all but a foregone conclusion that it's his group behind the plans.

Calgary, Victoria, Quebec City and Winnipeg are the other cities tagged to be future NASL franchises. But those are less developed than the Ottawa and Hamilton bids.

At some point you have to seriously question whether Bob Young's real motivation in all of this was to use soccer at the Pan Am games as the way to get a new CFL stadium built for the Ticats.

 

[Pqhbv]

Progress since the Easton report has been the growth and success of regional D3 in the largest provinces of Canada. This success and growth happening along side a rogue league that operated in the same two provinces with more history is noteworthy. The SA's of Quebec and Ontario are certainly making headway and taking the growth of the game seriously in their provinces. This should be seen as nothing but a good thing.

While the CPL is the ultimate goal, I think your going to be more successful if you build your pyramid from the base up. I'm not worried that the CPL is not going to happen tomorrow and I think the steps being taken (concerning the de-americanization of the pyramid as well here) are all good for soccer in Canada. I don't mind if the CPL doesn't happen until 2020, it would suck but that's just a selfish feeling, especially if its done right and the regional D3 is set up/more established.

I know cliche's about Rome are underlying most of my statements, but as annoying as it is; we've already failed at our own national league several times, the states will help us but are not our saviours, and nobody has the wherewithal & willingness to birth this alone in Canada.

We need all the SA's on the same page, we need a stronger regional set up, and we need a good plan to succeed. Yes, the longer it takes the more it annoys us, and the MLS snaps up more markets we need. Yet that's no reason to be defeatist at all, so long as we have the base we can always build something on top afterward.    

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

PLSQ was set up prior to the Easton report and as far as I am aware does not have a U-23 focus as envisaged by the Easton report, and as yet there is no league in BC. L1O and the whole wider OPDL initiative from the OSA have not been able to get all the groups that need to be involved to make it work buy into it conceptually. Same old same old of Canadian soccer, basically. If the Americans have a system that works and we have access to it, why reinvent the wheel?

[MtlMario]

7 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

PLSQ was set up prior to the Easton report and as far as I am aware does not have a U-23 focus as envisaged by the Easton report, and as yet there is no league in BC. L1O and the whole wider OPDL initiative from the OSA have not been able to get all the groups that need to be involved to make it work buy into it conceptually. Same old same old of Canadian soccer, basically. If the Americans have a system that works and we have access to it, why reinvent the wheel?

Yep it really shows how the American system works for Canadian soccer. All those World Cup qualifications are really great.

[Pqhbv]

47 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

PLSQ was set up prior to the Easton report and as far as I am aware does not have a U-23 focus as envisaged by the Easton report, and as yet there is no league in BC. L1O and the whole wider OPDL initiative from the OSA have not been able to get all the groups that need to be involved to make it work buy into it conceptually. Same old same old of Canadian soccer, basically. If the Americans have a system that works and we have access to it, why reinvent the wheel?

My french is not the best, but my understanding is that the PLSQ reserves are U-23 and youth focused.

Lack of a league in BC is a result of weak leadership in the SA of BC. It's also much less important on its own as its a small province, don't get me wrong I want to see a regional D3 out there, it may need to be a cooperative with Alberta & the Prairies; similar to the WHL. These sort of complications (organizing two or more SA's to cooperate) have also likely contributed to the lack of a D3 out west.

Re L1O: I think everyone has bought into L1O and it is really young, granted the OPDL needs more than just some work but its not the regional D3. 

These are still all steps in the right direction. Give credit where it is due, and stop being a negative Nancy from Wisconsin.

[Macksam]

5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

At some point you have to seriously question whether Bob Young's real motivation in all of this was to use soccer at the Pan Am games as the way to get a new CFL stadium built for the Ticats.

 

If that was the case, there wouldn't be any more rumours of a Canadian league, news articles about John Mcgrane and YouTube marketing videos.

The more likely reason behind Bob's NASL snub in favour of a brand new Canadian league is that his vision for the sport is more grandiose than what the NASL can offer. If he was fine with filling stadium dates and having an 8000-10000 average attendance, there would already be an NASL team in Hamilton. However, he wants something that's on the level of his football club, something that the whole nation can look forward to, something that averages crowds in the 20000s. That's the reason he's wants to go the CPL route.