Canadian Premier League

[Complete Homer]

3 hours ago, marauder01 said:

As one of the people heading up the Barton St. Battalion, the supporters group in Hamilton, we've already met with members of the Ticats organization - this is not a gimmick. The league is coming.

I realize you have probably been asked not to disclose anything, but is there anything you can tell us? Did they drop any hints about other ownership groups? How seriously do they seem to be taking supporters culture?

[TRM]

Talk is cheap. 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

On 6/26/2014 at 6:41 AM, jpg75 said:

Canadian Premier League sounds better than 1A. Calling it D3 is a sure way to make sure no one but hardcore types bothers to watch the league.

Yeah.  Official classification aside,  Just call it CPL and see what happens.  Even if it technically below MLS, most people won't even know as long as it's marketed correctly, and I can be like "yea, in the Canadian Premier league" when I talk about it.  

[shamrock]

On 3 mei 2016 at 4:07 PM, Pqhbv said:

Lack of a league in BC is a result of weak leadership in the SA of BC.

Dunno about this. There  haven't been much efforts made to establish a u23 league, but they have been working on implementing a stanard-based league on the u13 through u18-levels. http://www.bcsoccerpremierleague.net/leagues/newsletter.cfm?clientid=5515&leagueid=0

Maybe they needed to establish some sort of base first. 8 Clubs have been awarded a license, this scheme might provide the infrastructure and/or players for a future standard-based BCD3-league. 

[grande]

11 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

I realize you have probably been asked not to disclose anything, but is there anything you can tell us? Did they drop any hints about other ownership groups? How seriously do they seem to be taking supporters culture?

They weren't able to tell us much, unfortunately. They certainly didn't talk about other teams/ownership groups or anything like that.

[Macksam]

10 hours ago, TRM said:

Talk is cheap. 

You the MVP bro

[reme90]

I tried to read through 56 pages but I don't have patience. So forgive me if this has been suggested:

I feel the greatest single thing that the CPL can do to differentiate itself from NASL and MLS is to:

a) Have Division 1 Status

b ) Have an open system with clear and defined criteria for earning promotion into D1 football. In other words, NOT a franchise system but rather a club based system.

This sort of system encourages investment and player development as anyone willing to do both can EARN their way to play in Division 1.  This also encourages derbies and forces clubs to have a defined identity and build a solid supporters group with a community based approach. 

A common misconception to this suggestion is that there is not enough large markets to sustain a Pro/Rel system. However, the world over has shown that even small towns with small stadiums can compete with large clubs. Example Eibar with 27,000pop and a 5,000 seat stadium compete with Barcelona and Real Madrid in La Liga. Leiceister city is another. There is countless others in every division 1 league in the world. 

With a franchise system you instantly exclude smaller cities like Saskatoon, Brandon, Kitchener/Waterloo, Quebec City, St Johns, etc because of the high cost of the franchise fee. With a club based system a community can really get behind a team and find success in the league with the proper development and team system. 

We in North America have been brainwashed to believe Sports is only for the billionaires and that Sport is in the business of Entertainment and not in the business of Sport for the fans. 

Practically speaking, how would it work?

To start there would be no Relegation until we have enough clubs in the first division (say 20 or under).  To earn promotion, a club would have to meet clearly defined criteria: Financials, Home Field, Staff, etc. There could be regional leagues that would grant promotion to its top club. 

As well, a huge influx of stability and money could come by offering clubs in the USA a chance to play Division 1 football through promotion. 

Is there anything that would prevent the Canadian Premier League expanding into the USA markets that are currently disinfranchised by the closed system of MLS? 

Clubs like Cinncinnati FC with 15K in attendance and supporters clubs like Detroit City FC could join our league and instantly play Division 1 football. This will be instantly give our league weight and credentials. 
 

[Pqhbv]

@reme90    Division 1 status is mandated by by the nations's overseeing soccer association, nothing more. Playing D1 recognized by the CSA does nothing for FCC unless the USSF recognizes the CPL as D1 in their pyramid. 

Although I really like the idea of American expansion of the CPL, in reality all the USSF would have to do to curb things is not to sanction the teams & league. The opposite is also true, except the CSA doesn't have the balls to stand up to MLS.

I wanted to clear those two things up for you, because they are important to understand for everyone. Other than that, if you ever do take the time to read the pages you'll see this league will almost certainly be franchised based. If it is to get off the ground here in Canada and finally be successful, this model would protect it the best. However, this last point of mine is largely opinion on my part and I am intrigued by the concept of promoting teams into our own premiership.

The biggest hurdle to what you are suggesting here is the lack of teams to instantiate any promotion into a Division 1 in the near future. Grass roots organic growth like that could take forever. We lack a Division 2 base of teams to promote from, we lack Division 3 teams in all provinces but Ontario and Quebec. On top of this we have USL teams involved at D3 in some provinces, and USL PDL teams at a high level amateur level in the mix as well. Really we don't have the cohesion and organization across the nation to start what you are suggesting.   

[Oranje]

13 hours ago, Pqhbv said:

@reme90    Division 1 status is mandated by by the nations's overseeing soccer association, nothing more. Playing D1 recognized by the CSA does nothing for FCC unless the USSF recognizes the CPL as D1 in their pyramid.

Although I really like the idea of American expansion of the CPL, in reality all the USSF would have to do to curb things is not to sanction the teams & league. The opposite is also true, except the CSA doesn't have the balls to stand up to MLS.

I wanted to clear those two things up for you, because they are important to understand for everyone. Other than that, if you ever do take the time to read the pages you'll see this league will almost certainly be franchised based. If it is to get off the ground here in Canada and finally be successful, this model would protect it the best. However, this last point of mine is largely opinion on my part and I am intrigued by the concept of promoting teams into our own premiership.

The biggest hurdle to what you are suggesting here is the lack of teams to instantiate any promotion into a Division 1 in the near future. Grass roots organic growth like that could take forever. We lack a Division 2 base of teams to promote from, we lack Division 3 teams in all provinces but Ontario and Quebec. On top of this we have USL teams involved at D3 in some provinces, and USL PDL teams at a high level amateur level in the mix as well. Really we don't have the cohesion and organization across the nation to start what you are suggesting.  

Me too! We can also count American players as non-domestic players on any Canadian teams. If Cincinnati or Detroit want a reason why, we can just drum up some of Garbers bullshit excuses

[ted]

18 hours ago, reme90 said:

I tried to read through 56 pages but I don't have patience. So forgive me if this has been suggested:

I feel the greatest single thing that the CPL can do to differentiate itself from NASL and MLS is to:

a) Have Division 1 Status

b ) Have an open system with clear and defined criteria for earning promotion into D1 football. In other words, NOT a franchise system but rather a club based system.

[snip]

A common misconception to this suggestion is that there is not enough large markets to sustain a Pro/Rel system. However, the world over has shown that even small towns with small stadiums can compete with large clubs. Example Eibar with 27,000pop and a 5,000 seat stadium compete with Barcelona and Real Madrid in La Liga. Leiceister city is another. There is countless others in every division 1 league in the world. 

With a franchise system you instantly exclude smaller cities like Saskatoon, Brandon, Kitchener/Waterloo, Quebec City, St Johns, etc because of the high cost of the franchise fee. With a club based system a community can really get behind a team and find success in the league with the proper development and team system. 

[snip]

Actually this has been discussed for about 20 years on three different iterations of this forum so don't worry about going over old ground.

As has been mentioned D1 status is conferred by the CSA in Canada and they have already done this. They are not going to change this for reasons that have been done to death here but that should, frankly, be bleedingly obvious ($$$$).

In regards pro/rel you do actually need to go back and do more research. The problem is not lack of markets but lack of spectators willing to pay for tickets and attract sponsors. Pro/rel only works when you can pay players to train and play (even if only part time) all the way down to the fourth level. In our case that would require paying crowds averaging at miniumum 500+  in almost every single Canadian municipality over 30,000 people. So, when we have 75+ teams in PDL or above then we can talk about pro/rel. We have the markets, we just don't have the soccer culture, yet, to make it work.

We could get there some day but having it incorporated into the plan for the CanPL is wishful thinking.

[reme90]

On 5/11/2016 at 8:41 PM, Pqhbv said:

@reme90    Division 1 status is mandated by by the nations's overseeing soccer association, nothing more. Playing D1 recognized by the CSA does nothing for FCC unless the USSF recognizes the CPL as D1 in their pyramid. 

Although I really like the idea of American expansion of the CPL, in reality all the USSF would have to do to curb things is not to sanction the teams & league. The opposite is also true, except the CSA doesn't have the balls to stand up to MLS.

I wanted to clear those two things up for you, because they are important to understand for everyone. Other than that, if you ever do take the time to read the pages you'll see this league will almost certainly be franchised based. If it is to get off the ground here in Canada and finally be successful, this model would protect it the best. However, this last point of mine is largely opinion on my part and I am intrigued by the concept of promoting teams into our own premiership.

The biggest hurdle to what you are suggesting here is the lack of teams to instantiate any promotion into a Division 1 in the near future. Grass roots organic growth like that could take forever. We lack a Division 2 base of teams to promote from, we lack Division 3 teams in all provinces but Ontario and Quebec. On top of this we have USL teams involved at D3 in some provinces, and USL PDL teams at a high level amateur level in the mix as well. Really we don't have the cohesion and organization across the nation to start what you are suggesting.   

@Pqhbv Yes, I understand that the CSA does the sanctioning for the league. I also understand that the USSF has clear criteria for what can be classified as a D1 League. Any current setup of the CPL would not meet that criteria.

However, my point is would it matter?

Detroit City FC and Cincinnati FC have currently NO HOPE of ever playing Division 1. We would be the ONLY path for these clubs to play in a FIFA recognized 1st Division league.  

In fact, those clubs can't even earn their way to Division 2 soccer. IF the CPL, had a clear pathway to EARNING promotion into it's Canadian D1 League than that sounds mighty attractive to clubs like Detroit and Cincinnati. Great rivalries can be formed and a culture created between USA and CDN teams. 

2 points I want to make. 

1) You can't have it both ways. You can't say that Franchise protects the teams and then claim their is not enough of a soccer culture to warrant Pro/Rel. The franchise system protects clubs from competition by giving them territory rights, plus it serves as gate keepers from community based teams. 

2) You don't need an established 2nd, 3rd or 4th division to establish an OPEN System. You don't need relegation, you just need an open clear and defined pathway to Division 1 soccer, and that is what I am advocating here. By keeping the league OPEN to any club willing to earn and meet the criteria you spur the investment required to establish a soccer culture. 

Once you have TOO MANY clubs meeting the criteria. You can then establish a 2nd division and begin your process of relegation. This eliminates weak clubs by bringing them down and promotes clubs who have engaged the community, have spent wisely and MOST IMPORTANTLY established a development and soccer system. 



 

 

[Ansem]

Breaking News!!!!

http://www.cfra.com/SportsCP/Article.aspx?id=512573

Canadian soccer boss Victor Montagliani wins CONCACAF presidential election

[Pqhbv]

@reme90   FCC has a very good chance of being in Div2 in the american pyramid in the not too distant future. They also have a shot at MLS; Garber has acknowledged that. 

DCFC is an amateur organization that is not yet ready to take the next step to become professional. They might get there eventually but again, like I said in my previous post... 

The USSF has to sanction their play in a foreign league for them to be allowed, as well as the CSA to accept them. So to your question "would it matter?' yes, it clearly does. You also mention 'EARNING' promotion into the CPL, are you suggesting that winning the USL or the NPSL should get you into the CPL? I'm just confused by what you mean here, it doesn't seem to make sense to me.

21 hours ago, reme90 said:

2 points I want to make. 

1) You can't have it both ways. You can't say that Franchise protects the teams and then claim their is not enough of a soccer culture to warrant Pro/Rel. The franchise system protects clubs from competition by giving them territory rights, plus it serves as gate keepers from community based teams. 

2) You don't need an established 2nd, 3rd or 4th division to establish an OPEN System. You don't need relegation, you just need an open clear and defined pathway to Division 1 soccer, and that is what I am advocating here. By keeping the league OPEN to any club willing to earn and meet the criteria you spur the investment required to establish a soccer culture. 

How about I respond with this:

1) There is not enough soccer culture to warrant Pro/Rel at this time in Canada. Thus, the best shot at having a successful top division is to implement a Franchise model. 

2) You won't build a system from investment the way you describe without that soccer culture that's missing. Having a healthy entry-level regionalized D3's across Canada is the best way to build that culture. This on top of a top flight division, should foster that culture even further. 

[TRM]

10 hours ago, Ansem said:

Breaking News!!!!

http://www.cfra.com/SportsCP/Article.aspx?id=512573

Canadian soccer boss Victor Montagliani wins CONCACAF presidential election

Polygraphs for everyone!!!!!

Next question is who will replace him as head of the CSA?

[SuperCanuck]

On 5 May, 2016 at 6:24 AM, DerHoota said:

 

I think high attendance will be a long shot in its first year, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it "delusional", especially within 5 years. It really is all about how each team goes about marketing themselves to their area and demographic. The a-league is a relatively young league but they average around 12,000 fans a game.  Western Sydney Wanderers are what now? 4 years old? and they average 16,000 fans a game. Although I don't know much about FCE's marketing, I would say they don't really do a great job marketing the organization and players. If the the winner of the CPL could play in the CONCACAF champions league that would increase exposure. Meaningless midseason friendlies would increase exposure as would the over the top superstar/journey man.
 

Attendance stats for reference

http://www.ultimatealeague.com/records.php?type=att

Yes, Western Sydney get good crowds.  Although Australia is very similar to us (gigantic country with the population strung out in a line of cities bunched up mostly to the east), a huge difference between us and them is they support their own.

Sydney FC also get about 15,000.  I don't see a derby happening in any sport in Canada.  We can't even manage it in hockey.

Also in Sydney, you have four rugby league teams, two Aussie rules teams and the Waratahs in Super Rugby.  The average Canadian would rather support a foreign team in any sport other than hockey, unfortunately.

I want the CPL to succeed more than anyone, but I'm really having to cross my fingers and toes so hard that the circulation's being cut off.  Please, my fellow Canadians, prove me wrong and you'll make me very happy.

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, TRM said:

Polygraphs for everyone!!!!!

Next question is who will replace him as head of the CSA?

Rollins says someone named Reed. Said he was an accountant that was pretty low radar, maybe just a financially savvy interim guy?

[Complete Homer]

https://mobile.twitter.com/24thminute/status/730868680104550400

 

Interesting tweet from Rollins. In response to the question of how Montagliani stepping down will effect CPL

 

"doubt it impacts it at all. Those negotiations have been ongoing for years and are in the dot Is, cross Ts period https://twitter.com/blueanwhitearmy/status/730867686444392448 …"

 

Seems odd since they said the business plan was yet to be presented to the CSA board, but maybe that's a much more end-stage task than I was imagining. Rollins has seemed to be on the inside on this one, so I would guess his thoughts are trustworthy 

[TRM]

29 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Rollins says someone named Reed. Said he was an accountant that was pretty low radar, maybe just a financially savvy interim guy?

Will there be a new president elected (Reed filling in temporarily) or will the temp guy finish off Vic's term? If there is a new election will it be one of the other previous candidates or someone new?

[TRM]

30 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Interesting tweet from Rollins. In response to the question of how Montagliani stepping down will effect CPL

"doubt it impacts it at all. Those negotiations have been ongoing for years and are in the dot Is, cross Ts period https://twitter.com/blueanwhitearmy/status/730867686444392448 …"

Well he finally got something right. It has been going on for years. And years, and years and years. As to how close they are it is just his SWAG. Dotting the i's & crossing the t's on what exactly? A proposal? A status report? A legal document to form the league?

[Coramoor]

58 minutes ago, SuperCanuck said:

Yes, Western Sydney get good crowds.  Although Australia is very similar to us (gigantic country with the population strung out in a line of cities bunched up mostly to the east), a huge difference between us and them is they support their own.

Sydney FC also get about 15,000.  I don't see a derby happening in any sport in Canada.  We can't even manage it in hockey.

Also in Sydney, you have four rugby league teams, two Aussie rules teams and the Waratahs in Super Rugby.  The average Canadian would rather support a foreign team in any sport other than hockey, unfortunately.

I want the CPL to succeed more than anyone, but I'm really having to cross my fingers and toes so hard that the circulation's being cut off.  Please, my fellow Canadians, prove me wrong and you'll make me very happy.

I'd guess more than 50% of Canadian fans of baseball and basketball are fans of the Jays and Raptors.

[rob.notenboom]

27 minutes ago, TRM said:

Will there be a new president elected (Reed filling in temporarily) or will the temp guy finish off Vic's term? If there is a new election will it be one of the other previous candidates or someone new?

I might have this wrong, but I believe I heard Mont Vic (on the raw audio from the phone presser) say that the VP takes over until the CSA meets next. Not sure if that means AGM or what. 

[SuperCanuck]

11 hours ago, Coramoor said:

I'd guess more than 50% of Canadian fans of baseball and basketball are fans of the Jays and Raptors.

For me, people have to actually be moving to consider something a sport.

[Macksam]

21 hours ago, SuperCanuck said:

Yes, Western Sydney get good crowds.  Although Australia is very similar to us (gigantic country with the population strung out in a line of cities bunched up mostly to the east), a huge difference between us and them is they support their own.

Sydney FC also get about 15,000.  I don't see a derby happening in any sport in Canada.  We can't even manage it in hockey.

Also in Sydney, you have four rugby league teams, two Aussie rules teams and the Waratahs in Super Rugby.  The average Canadian would rather support a foreign team in any sport other than hockey, unfortunately.

I want the CPL to succeed more than anyone, but I'm really having to cross my fingers and toes so hard that the circulation's being cut off.  Please, my fellow Canadians, prove me wrong and you'll make me very happy.

This is way too loaded.

I'll start off with the hockey one. It's not that we can't manage it, it's just that we won't due to the monopolistic nature of North American sports. 

Besides people from Toronto and Vancouver being apathetic to their respective CFL teams, there really isn't any evidence of Canadians supporting a foreign professional team over their own in any sport. The success of the three MLS teams even refutes your point. Even the badly thought out, poorly run, serves no real purpose NBLC draws well in a few markets.

[Pqhbv]

NBLC is a great example... I secretly follow the league...

[mpg_29]

I'd like to see a bottom-up decentralized approach than a top-down centralized approach. It should not be franchised based. It should be based on "free market" principles with no salary caps and no revenue sharing.  I think the only salary restriction should be players must be paid and can't make less than the equivalent of a min. wage salary in team's province (aka min salary $20,000-$25,000).

I think the league would be much more resilient, could accommodate many more teams and player development would be much more organic.

If Moncton could only afford to have a $450,000 payroll then so be it.  If Calgary can afford a $2.5 million dollar payroll then so be it.

If they go with a "CFL business approach" I feel we be limited to fewer cities, have less player development and ultimately more chance of failure.