Canadian Premier League

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Sure but that adds considerably to the scale of the investment that is required. Vancouver still has Swangard and Montreal still has Claude Robilliard, but how would those look on TSN alongside CFL stadia? The three largest markets would not be easy to enter for rival "division 1A" franchises to the thee MLS teams, and without a presence in those markets I suspect it would be very difficult to get coast to coast level broadcasting and sponsorship interest. If they were really serious about it I think they would need the three USL "reserve" teams on board rather than as a second set of competitors in those markets over and above the MLS teams.

[shamrock]

On 6 april 2016 at 9:42 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

With the three MLS markets probably gone as viable possibilities, making it work on the sort of budgets mentioned in blogs looks like a stretch to me compared to a more modest New Zealand type short season semi-pro approach. What if that makes the D1 nationwide league an unrealistic wild goose chase that is actually stunting the scope for growth. It's worth bearing in mind that when the CSA slapped their moratorium on sanctioning more teams in the USSF setup, the PDL teams in Victoria and London both were making noises about stepping up to USL Pro and Tony Waiters had been hired to facilitate Canadian expansion in that context. Maybe more progress would have been made if the CSA had not interfered in the process and had stuck to organizing the national teams and amateur soccer.

I can understand the reasoning, but I still disagree. 

1. The national team is a major CSA responsibility. You say they shouldn't have interfered but just stick to that priority, but how can they without a structure? The lack of a "normal" pyramid is what causes the lack of quality in the MNT. 

2. Of course we'll never know how things would have gone without the moratorium. Fact is that once you got those independent USL-teams set-up, chances of setting up a nationwide league would have reduced and fragmentation of the soccer-landscape enhanced. IF, a nationwide league would fail, surely some investors can still make the choice to start a team in any league they want. Also, I seriously doubt Victoria would have gotten a USL-team, seeing how they struggle to afford even the PDL.

I honestly think now is the time to act, if anything it is already late with 2 NASL-teams and 3 USL-teams. Get that league to compete at least with USL/NASL (which is going to be hard enough, admit-tingly) and you have a chance for those teams to switch. 

[Ansem]

An article regarding the league!

http://www.rednationonline.ca/Articles2016/5ThingstheCanadianPremierLeagueshouldavoid.aspx

The Canadian soccer world has been a buzz for the last two years about one thing: an all Canadian pro soccer league. And on February 4th John McGrane, a former Canadian international player and representative of Hamilton Ti-Cats owner Bob Young, walked into Hamilton's city hall and had a meeting with the city council where he went on the record saying that there is going to be a Canadian Premier League*.While the idea of a league should be cause for excitement, the league will only be a success if done right. Here are 5 things the CPL should avoid.

* No official statement has yet been released. The CPL is still only a proposed league.                        
Gimmick Signings

In my last CPL piece, I wrote about the benefits of signing some sort of designated player. That said, if half of the ISL's marquee players approached CPL teams, it would be wise if the teams just walked away. While most of these players have amazing resumes and would create a buzz, the bulk of these players are well past their prime, they are no longer able to play at a high level and many of them have come out of retirement or been without a contract for more than a year. These signings scream gimmick to much of the soccer world and would not fly in leagues like the MLS and should not fly in Canada's league.

The CPL should avoid them, especially since younger players who have more to offer a club at this level are willing to sign with NASL clubs (e.g. Georgios Samaras' recent signing with Rayo OKC).

A Single Table

Why doesn't the MLS use a balanced single table set-up like the rest of the world's elite leagues? It's partly because the cost would be insane. Unlike most leagues, MLS teams have to use commercial flights instead of buses to travel and this will often cause a team to have to book a second night in a hotel due to unavailability of flights after evening games. Canada and the US are too big for a single table league to be financially stable.

Adding to that, constant flights and nights spent in hotels can take a real toll on players. And to be brutally honest, unless you have relegation, which will never be the case for Canada or the US, a single table set-up is mostly pointless.

A conference set-up, with play-offs to determine a league champion, that keeps costly cross-Canada travel to a minimum is for the best. Especially if CPL teams are operating on a limited budget.

A 6-team launch

While I and many would support the CPL no matter what, the idea of the league launching with as few as 6 teams kind of worries me. While the 8 team announcement caused excitement, there was criticism directed at the idea of there being only 8 teams from non-Canadian soccer fans. My fear here is that a launch with 6 teams would result in the league being viewed as a joke and not taken seriously by not only the rest of the world, but also casual fans in Canada.

Division 2 Status

Another large criticism of the proposed league is that it's just going to be a tier 2 league to the MLS. This viewpoint could do just as much damage to the league as regular cross Canada road trips, especially in Canada's big three markets where the MLS has already established itself.

To combat this perception, the CPL must present itself as equal to the MLS. The CSA must classify the league as a joint division 1 with the MLS and must secure the league a slot in the Champions' League, and the owners must do everything within their power to promote the league as the pinnacle of the game in Canada.

Streaming League Games

Streaming games online is a fine way to keep fans connected when they are unable to be at the games but there are a number of issues with it. Bars and restaurants are unlikely to stream off the internet, popular chains won't for sure, and advertisers are turned off by the limited reach that streaming presents. The CPL must broadcast every league game and high profile friendlies live on traditional TV (TSN preferably but TLN is widely available enough that it could do the job).

That said, don't avoid streaming completely. Streaming pre-season friendlies is a great way to get fans excited and showing academy and reserve games online could shed some light on emerging players. Every team should have a very active YouTube channel and live streams of friendlies, and academy games is the perfect way to help build a following.

Bonus: A Team called the Montreal Manic

Just a reminder to whoever is seeking to set up a new team in Monteal, avoid this name. It's terrible. What kind of culture are you going to build around this club? How are you going to build one? Are you going to hire a bunch of Welsh libertarian-left rockers to record a team song and release it to the public with Jenny Saville art on the single's cover?

Having a team called “the Manic” is idiotic and needs to be avoided.

[Pqhbv]

How do you guys feel about the 6 team thing?

I'm not as pessimistic as this author but I think it is important. I feel like starting with six but announcing a coast-to-coast goal is good enough to spark national interest. Start with six, state your plan to grow, and find the niche. It doesn't need to be bigger than the CFL to be perceived as a top league. It's not like Canadians expect this to have as many teams as the MLS or even the NASL right from the beginning. IMO what this author could have summed everything up by saying they just need to work with/follow the CFL. 

[baulderdash77]

The NHL was a 6 team league for 23 years.  Just saying.  Anyways it's a good article and there hasn't been much coverage by blogs or media recently.  It's good to see some pub out there.

I think it makes good points.  7-9 foreign players, maybe a DP per team but not a complete retread, CCL spot, friendlies.  All of those things are good ideas.

Everyone probably realizes that a salary cap, 7-9 foreign player spots and a DP concept of player is probably a good way to start a league.  It creates parity but also promotes competitive play and a marque name for the media and fans to latch on.

I agree that most of the foreign player spots will probably come from the Caribbean, Central or South America.  Those are probably the best chance to get guys in their early 20's with good technical skills willing to play for 50-100k per year.  Not many European players are going to come over for that.

So a league where most teams consist of Canadian players 18-23 and 30+ as well as 7-9 Latin American players in their prime.  That can be an entertaining product to watch.

I guess we're all in a holding pattern until the CSA Annual meeting in May when this is rumored to be getting approved and go public.

 

 

 

 

[Gopherbashi]

I don't like the idea of a 6-team start, but I'm far more concerned about the locations of the teams rather than the number of teams.

Prior knowledge about likely & unlikely locations aside, I'd much rather have a 6-team league consisting of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal than an 8-team league consisting of Victoria, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Kitchener, Hamilton, Quebec, and Moncton.

[rob.notenboom]

There hasn't been much coverage lately because there's been nothing to cover.

 

I think the CSA's AGM is in May sometime. If there's nothing more substantive by then, I'm going to start losing hope.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

It's worth bearing in mind or learning about the history of the CUSL on this. Even if an announcement happens in May it won't necessarily be that the league starts up next year or anything like that. It might just be a call for investors sort of thing. If they had all the ducks in a row on this I suspect we would be hearing a lot more rumours about what's happening in other cities besides Hamilton.

[OnkelDal]

*comes in to check on any new updates, leaves disappointed, plans to check back tomorrow*

[Jason]

10 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

There hasn't been much coverage lately because there's been nothing to cover.

 

I think the CSA's AGM is in May sometime. If there's nothing more substantive by then, I'm going to start losing hope.

Agree with this.  I want to hear something official soon.  I don't need a lot, but something.  

It sure looks like a 2017 start is unlikely at this point, which is really unfortunate.

Jason

 

[mpg_29]

10 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

I don't like the idea of a 6-team start, but I'm far more concerned about the locations of the teams rather than the number of teams.

Prior knowledge about likely & unlikely locations aside, I'd much rather have a 6-team league consisting of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal than an 8-team league consisting of Victoria, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Kitchener, Hamilton, Quebec, and Moncton.

You are more concerned about the locations of the teams but also advocating putting a second professional soccer team in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal?  I'm still highly skeptical of having two professional soccer teams in the same city in Canada. I just don't see it working. Montreal doesn't have the greatest attendance for sports teams that aren't the Montreal Canadiens. Toronto has number of big league teams and minor league teams don't do well there...look at how poorly the Argonauts do. You could make a case for a team in Mississauga I guess. The only real way i could see it work is if you have Vancouver,Toronto and Montreal MLS second teams play in the league.  At least then you are working with established brands.

I'm OK starting with 6 teams. Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Hamilton, Quebec. You would arguably having a denser talent pool with only 6 teams.

I think it's important to get the season length right though. 6 teams play each other 4 times, that's a 20 week season...

[-Hammer-]

My expectation is that this league doesn't start up until 2018 at the earliest with 2019 being more likely. To be honest with you guys and there likely isn't going to be a lot of talk on this front until the CSA meets in May. The only reason this came out was because the Ti-Cats pitched the dome to city council with the intent of them using it for an academy.

[Gopherbashi]

58 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

You are more concerned about the locations of the teams but also advocating putting a second professional soccer team in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal?  I'm still highly skeptical of having two professional soccer teams in the same city in Canada. I just don't see it working. Montreal doesn't have the greatest attendance for sports teams that aren't the Montreal Canadiens. Toronto has number of big league teams and minor league teams don't do well there...look at how poorly the Argonauts do. You could make a case for a team in Mississauga I guess. The only real way i could see it work is if you have Vancouver,Toronto and Montreal MLS second teams play in the league.  At least then you are working with established brands.

I'm OK starting with 6 teams. Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Hamilton, Quebec. You would arguably having a denser talent pool with only 6 teams.

I think it's important to get the season length right though. 6 teams play each other 4 times, that's a 20 week season...

I'm concerned about having teams in those cities for two reasons: optics and media.  The CPL simply will not be taken seriously as a national professional league if it has no footprint in our three largest cities - it will appear to be a bush league and will be treated accordingly by the public.  Second is the aspect of the media deal, and its value to investors drops off considerably if there's no fan base in the country's three largest media markets.

That being said, I don't believe we need to be in all three of those cities for this to be a success, but I'd be concerned about the league's long-term viability if we didn't at least get one of Montreal and Vancouver alongside Hamilton and Ottawa.  Edmonton is likely right out unless CSA can pull off the impossible and drag the Faths over from NASL.

I don't know that having a second pro team in those three cities will be successful, but if Oklahoma City can draw 6000 people to Rayo's home opener despite also having a USL team in town (which itself drew an average of 4500 last season), I'd like to think it's possible.  Besides, this whole project is based around guesswork and assumptions about how much pro soccer Canada can support, and I'd be equally skeptical about finding 10-12 cities in this country (3 MLS, 1 FCE in NASL, 6-8 CPL) that can do so.

[Ansem]

Should be an 8 team start league split east and west to reduce costly traveling.

West

B.C (Surrey)

Calgary

Regina 

Winnipeg 

 

East

Quebec City

Halifax

Ottawa 

Hamilton

 

2-Expansion : Once the league thrash NASL in Canada, I expect Edmonton to do the only logical thing...jump to the CPL. Add a southern Ontario team (Kitchener-Waterloo, London or Windsor who could take advantage of MLS absence in Detroit)

3-The Big 3 markets: Once/if CPL can have better playing quality then USL, I could see TFC, Impact and Whitecaps moving their USL teams in CPL instead which would be more beneficial to them.

Montreal=Laval area targetting (Laval+Montreal North+Laurentides+Lanaudiere regions)

Toronto=York Region?, Varsity stadium?, TFC Downsview?Mississauga?

Vancouver=Burnaby? Richmond? North Vancouver? Victoria?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

If it gets off the ground, it will almost certainly be comprised of whichever cities have somebody willing to write the cheques rather than some grand vision that people have. Single entity and a friendly billionaire or two with a couple of hundred million going spare like MLS had in its early years would probably be needed to get what gets talked about in blogs to firmly establish itself, but that's not likely. I suspect something less ambitious and a lot closer to a largely semi-pro setup like the original CSL will/would be a lot more likely after all the compromises involved with getting six to eight investor groups together, especially if cities like Victoria and Halifax would be involved.

[nolbertos]

If this league takes 3 years to happen, then I think its best to go the USL and NASL route.  canda has been waiting 25 years since the demise of rhe CSL to have a donestic league.  I'd rather invest in establised league brands than keep waiting.  I'm not a fan of how this is transpiring.  Seems this CPL concept was the brainchild of the CSA's ability to land the World Cup in 2026.   If that doesn't happen then what?? Do the CFL owners not bother? In the end, the longer the wait, the more power and leverage it gives the USl and NASL in Canada to get more established teams here.

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, nolbertos said:

If this league takes 3 years to happen, then I think its best to go the USL and NASL route.  canda has been waiting 25 years since the demise of rhe CSL to have a donestic league.  I'd rather invest in establised league brands than keep waiting.  I'm not a fan of how this is transpiring.  Seems this CPL concept was the brainchild of the CSA's ability to land the World Cup in 2026.   If that doesn't happen then what?? Do the CFL owners not bother? In the end, the longer the wait, the more power and leverage it gives the USl and NASL in Canada to get more established teams here.

I'd rather they take their time to do it right than rush it and fail. I don't understand this delusion that American leagues and Federation have the good of the Canadian program at heart.

 

CPL must happen. Even if it's in 5 years, I don't care...do it tight, that's all that matter

[rob.notenboom]

4 hours ago, nolbertos said:

 canda has been waiting 25 years since the demise of rhe CSL to have a donestic league.

This is the league where all teams are sponsored by donair chains.

[Oranje]

On April 8, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Ansem said:

An article regarding the league!

http://www.rednationonline.ca/Articles2016/5ThingstheCanadianPremierLeagueshouldavoid.aspx

The Canadian soccer world has been a buzz for the last two years about one thing: an all Canadian pro soccer league. And on February 4th John McGrane, a former Canadian international player and representative of Hamilton Ti-Cats owner Bob Young, walked into Hamilton's city hall and had a meeting with the city council where he went on the record saying that there is going to be a Canadian Premier League*.While the idea of a league should be cause for excitement, the league will only be a success if done right. Here are 5 things the CPL should avoid.

* No official statement has yet been released. The CPL is still only a proposed league.                        
Gimmick Signings

In my last CPL piece, I wrote about the benefits of signing some sort of designated player. That said, if half of the ISL's marquee players approached CPL teams, it would be wise if the teams just walked away. While most of these players have amazing resumes and would create a buzz, the bulk of these players are well past their prime, they are no longer able to play at a high level and many of them have come out of retirement or been without a contract for more than a year. These signings scream gimmick to much of the soccer world and would not fly in leagues like the MLS and should not fly in Canada's league.

The CPL should avoid them, especially since younger players who have more to offer a club at this level are willing to sign with NASL clubs (e.g. Georgios Samaras' recent signing with Rayo OKC).

A Single Table

Why doesn't the MLS use a balanced single table set-up like the rest of the world's elite leagues? It's partly because the cost would be insane. Unlike most leagues, MLS teams have to use commercial flights instead of buses to travel and this will often cause a team to have to book a second night in a hotel due to unavailability of flights after evening games. Canada and the US are too big for a single table league to be financially stable.

Adding to that, constant flights and nights spent in hotels can take a real toll on players. And to be brutally honest, unless you have relegation, which will never be the case for Canada or the US, a single table set-up is mostly pointless.

A conference set-up, with play-offs to determine a league champion, that keeps costly cross-Canada travel to a minimum is for the best. Especially if CPL teams are operating on a limited budget.

A 6-team launch

While I and many would support the CPL no matter what, the idea of the league launching with as few as 6 teams kind of worries me. While the 8 team announcement caused excitement, there was criticism directed at the idea of there being only 8 teams from non-Canadian soccer fans. My fear here is that a launch with 6 teams would result in the league being viewed as a joke and not taken seriously by not only the rest of the world, but also casual fans in Canada.

Division 2 Status

Another large criticism of the proposed league is that it's just going to be a tier 2 league to the MLS. This viewpoint could do just as much damage to the league as regular cross Canada road trips, especially in Canada's big three markets where the MLS has already established itself.

To combat this perception, the CPL must present itself as equal to the MLS. The CSA must classify the league as a joint division 1 with the MLS and must secure the league a slot in the Champions' League, and the owners must do everything within their power to promote the league as the pinnacle of the game in Canada.

Streaming League Games

Streaming games online is a fine way to keep fans connected when they are unable to be at the games but there are a number of issues with it. Bars and restaurants are unlikely to stream off the internet, popular chains won't for sure, and advertisers are turned off by the limited reach that streaming presents. The CPL must broadcast every league game and high profile friendlies live on traditional TV (TSN preferably but TLN is widely available enough that it could do the job).

That said, don't avoid streaming completely. Streaming pre-season friendlies is a great way to get fans excited and showing academy and reserve games online could shed some light on emerging players. Every team should have a very active YouTube channel and live streams of friendlies, and academy games is the perfect way to help build a following.

Bonus: A Team called the Montreal Manic

Just a reminder to whoever is seeking to set up a new team in Monteal, avoid this name. It's terrible. What kind of culture are you going to build around this club? How are you going to build one? Are you going to hire a bunch of Welsh libertarian-left rockers to record a team song and release it to the public with Jenny Saville art on the single's cover?

Having a team called “the Manic” is idiotic and needs to be avoided.

They forgot using tacky Euro names. I will lose my shit and may have to give up on the whole thing if Real Calgary Stampeders and Sporting Winnipeg are playing each other. 

[ted]

On 2016-04-07 at 3:34 AM, shamrock said:

Also, I seriously doubt Victoria would have gotten a USL-team, seeing how they struggle to afford even the PDL.

The PDL is fourth division soccer (at best). The number of people willing to pay $10 to watch D4 is limited and we did OK but still lost money each year.

I don't understand why so many soccer fans seem to think that perceived quality of the league has ZERO effect on attendance and the bottom line.  USL may not be a household name in Canada but it is a lot more visible and marketable than the PDL.

 

On 2016-04-08 at 7:28 AM, Ansem said:

Division 2 Status

Another large criticism of the proposed league is that it's just going to be a tier 2 league to the MLS. This viewpoint could do just as much damage to the league as regular cross Canada road trips, especially in Canada's big three markets where the MLS has already established itself.

To combat this perception, the CPL must present itself as equal to the MLS. The CSA must classify the league as a joint division 1 with the MLS and must secure the league a slot in the Champions' League, and the owners must do everything within their power to promote the league as the pinnacle of the game in Canada.

While making many good points I have to, once again, question this idea.

How does telling a bald-faced lie to fans and sponsors lend credibility to this league?  MLS is a fact. It's status as D1 is not an opinion.  Teams playing in a Canada-only league with smaller budgets is in no way, "equal to the MLS".  Any claim or suggestion to the contrary is so obviously untrue that anyone saying it seriously would instantly be written off as unreliable at best and a liar at worst.

That is no way to build trust with fans or media or sponsors.

 

On 2016-04-09 at 3:15 PM, Ansem said:

I don't understand this delusion that American leagues and Federation have the good of the Canadian program at heart.

Well, since no one ever claimed any such thing we can toss that Straw Man fallacy into the bin.

What has been claimed repeatedly and I believe accurately, is that we can take advantage of American leagues, using them for our own benefit. By simply allowing us in they provide us with benefits they don't intend and frankly, that they are not concerned with. 

I have never understood how having more teams to play for and against is somehow a bad thing. Eight Canadian teams in a league that also has 24+ American teams provides better competition, marketing opportunities and players spots than eight Canadian teams in a league by themselves.

 

[nolbertos]

On April 9, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Ansem said:

I'd rather they take their time to do it right than rush it and fail. I don't understand this delusion that American leagues and Federation have the good of the Canadian program at heart.

 

CPL must happen. Even if it's in 5 years, I don't care...do it tight, that's all that matter

Yeah, you can wait and the national team suffers.  In those 5 years that we could potentially wait.  NASL could have teams in Winnipeg, Regina, Calgary and even Quebec City, and adding Edmonton, Ottawa, and potentially the 3 MLS-2 USL teams to join, there's your Canada wide league in a bucket.  You don't need to wait 5 years to start that.  Also with this waiting, why now does thr CFL wanna help out?? Why didn't the CSA ask 10 or 20 years ago for help.  Is it because they think by pursuing a World Cup they'll government subsidies to upgrade thr existing CFL stadiums, thus CFL owners get a free upgrade cost on the promise they'll form a CPL??  The longer we wait, the worse off we'll be.  We're already low as it is in Canadian Futbol history.  I think its time for actions to speak louder than words now.  Either the CSA make a statemeny in thr next AOG meeting in May 2016 and give a timeline or they're still uncertain, than move on to Plan B, which is NASL or USL expansion

[Complete Homer]

27 minutes ago, ted said:

How does telling a bald-faced lie to fans and sponsors lend credibility to this league?  MLS is a fact. It's status as D1 is not an opinion.  Teams playing in a Canada-only league with smaller budgets is in no way, "equal to the MLS".  Any claim or suggestion to the contrary is so obviously untrue that anyone saying it seriously would instantly be written off as unreliable at best and a liar at worst.

That is no way to build trust with fans or media or sponsors 

I think there's a difference between claiming that CPL will be *as good* as MLS and *being at the same level.* I don't think people in Russia think the KHL is as good as the NHL, but I doubt the league presents itself as "D2, on par with the AHL" 

I think the point is just that it has to own the D1 title and strive to be worthy of it, instead of immediately accepting a subservient feeder-league status. It is the top of our pyramid, we just have to recognize that it isn't an impressive pyramid

[ted]

3 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

It is the top of our pyramid, we just have to recognize that it isn't an impressive pyramid

So long as MLS exists it is not, "top of our pyramid".

No one in the media or the corporate world of sponsors and only the most delusional of fans, would ever consider this explanation anything better than a bald-faced lie.

Please for the love of all that is holy, stop pretending this league will be anything more than a D2 (and that even will be a leap of faith the first year.)

There is nothing wrong with a respectable, professional, second-tier league.

[Complete Homer]

13 minutes ago, ted said:

So long as MLS exists it is not, "top of our pyramid".

No one in the media or the corporate world of sponsors and only the most delusional of fans, would ever consider this explanation anything better than a bald-faced lie.

Please for the love of all that is holy, stop pretending this league will be anything more than a D2 (and that even will be a leap of faith the first year.)

There is nothing wrong with a respectable, professional, second-tier league.

It's awfully hard to call three teams a "tier" or "division" of our pyramid. 

"No one in the media or the corporate world of sponsors and only the most delusional of fans, would ever consider this explanation anything better than a bald-faced lie."

Better go tell the Welsh then

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

Ted - MLS is run the Americans and is the top of their pyramid. No one is debating quality, but this league will be the top league run by the CSA. To say otherwise is just being stubborn.