Unnamed Trialist Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 My theory is that when the CPL logo threads are no longer visible on the FP of this site, that'll be the confirmation we will have a proper league in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted April 12, 2016 Author Share Posted April 12, 2016 18 hours ago, Complete Homer said: Better go tell the Welsh then LOL The Welsh do have a "Premier League" and I have no objection to Canadian Premier League as a title. What the Welsh do NOT do is try and pretend that that league is comparable in any way to the EPL. That is because they have a long history of professional football that is clearly understood by all stakeholders: fans, media and sponsors. It matters less if they choose to use the label D1 because everyone understands what that means in a historical and competitive context. The vast majority of media, sponsors and the general public in Canada do not have that background knowledge and would simply read it as claiming that the CanPL was the same as MLS. 17 hours ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said: Ted - MLS is run the Americans and is the top of their pyramid. No one is debating quality, but this league will be the top league run by the CSA. To say otherwise is just being stubborn. The CSA recognizes MLS as D1. That is a fact. Telling the truth is not being stubborn. Continuing to promulgate a lie is being stubborn. Without the kind of history and general understanding of soccer that they have in Wales, calling CanPL a first division is a lie. Why are you all insisting that we present the league to the media, sponsors and general public as a lie? Why can we not simply promote it as the highest level, all-Canadian league? Why can we not embrace the idea that the top players will be successful if the make "the big leagues"? There is no way in hell, no matter how successful the league becomes, no matter if the MLS teams are one day absorbed into the league, that the top players in the world will come to play in Canada in their prime. Why fight the idea of a good second-tier league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pqhbv Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 I think too much emphasis is being projected onto the CSA's divisional definitions. The only sport I can think of in North America where casual fans are aware of the levels or professional play is baseball. People know what AA and AAA are with respect to the MLB, but they may not know that independent pro-baseball leagues (non-MLB) exist in other markets as well. I suppose that hockey & basketball have been growing their lower division sport especially in the last two decades but its not as well known as baseball with clear distinctions between levels. Pro-soccer in NA has been a mess historically, and I think a discussion about levels and divisions is an important one. However, outside of these message boards, how much should it concern a casual fan? As long as it is marketed as the top Canadian league -which it would be- then there is nothing dishonest about it. No one considers the CFL a feeder league to the NFL, but people do consider the CJFL a feeder league to the CFL. An all Canadian pyramid can co-exist with MLS, but I don't think it could co-exist with the MLS, NASL, USL & PDL. I think what the CSA is doing, by cleaning up the lower pyramid tiers and making our own leagues at those levels is great. I think what we've been told they are working on for CanPL is great as well, because it reclaims the NASL level and teams we have there present. Until the MLS starts putting more teams in Canada, I think the CPL would thrive as the top league nation-wide, it would expand our voyageurs cup, bring pro soccer to many major cities, it would develop our NT depth. The CanPL is not about toppling the MLS, its about reclaiming our own pyramid and developmental path for our NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted April 12, 2016 Author Share Posted April 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Pqhbv said: I think too much emphasis is being projected onto the CSA's divisional definitions. Yo got dat right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 The way I see it... La Liga in Spain is >Bundesliga>EPL>Serie A>>Ligue 1 France > Mexican League...yet no one argues that Liga and Ligue 1 aren't both Division 1 right? La Liga>>>Liga MX...who's to argue they aren't both division 1 Same for CPL. If CSA sanction it as D1, than that's what it's going to be..."title wise" Gameplay wise, I expect same or better than NASL with the expectation that it will surpass it very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 7 minutes ago, Ansem said: Gameplay wise, I expect same or better than NASL with the expectation that it will surpass it very fast. Why? That sounds more like what you want to happen than anything else. Investor groups with very deep pockets need to be attracted to make that sort of thing happen. Getting a big budget pro soccer league off the ground in North America is not easy, For example, it has just been revealed that MLS almost folded in 2001: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/04/12/mls-folded-for-a-few-days-in-2001-and-somehow-kept-it-a-secret-until-now/ Only a couple of years ago Jim Easton did a feasibility study and told the CSA that it wasn't realistic after speaking to the sort of people that would need to be interested to make a D2 league, or whatever you prefer to call it, viable. I find it farfetched that the situation has completely transformed since then. Some of us are old enough to remember what London Lasers vs Ottawa Intrepid looked like in the last league the CSA got up and running when anyone that wrote a cheque that cleared was allowed in, as long as there was no ethnic team name involved. I suspect if a league did get off the ground it would be a lot closer to that than the NASL. Genuinely hope I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Just now, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Why? That sounds more like what you want to happen than anything else. Investor groups with very deep pockets need to be attracted to make that sort of thing happen. Getting a big budget pro soccer league off the ground in North America is not easy, For example, it has just been revealed that MLS almost folded in 2001: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/04/12/mls-folded-for-a-few-days-in-2001-and-somehow-kept-it-a-secret-until-now/ Only a couple of years ago Jim Easton did a feasibility study and told the CSA that it wasn't realistic after speaking to the sort of people that would need to be interested to make a D2 league, or whatever you prefer to call it, viable. I find it farfetched that the situation has completely transformed since then. Some of us are old enough to remember what London Lasers vs Ottawa Intrepid looked like in the last league the CSA got up and running when anyone that wrote a cheque that cleared was allowed in, as long as there was no ethnic team name involved. I suspect if a league did get off the ground it would be a lot closer to that than the NASL. Genuinely hope I am wrong. 1-I'm just quoting recent articles speculating that CFL & NHL owners we're in the mix...Hard to get more deeper pockets than this. 2-Also, matching the pay of the NASL or surpassing it makes the CPL a more attractive league from the get go. The North American Soccer League (NASL), considered a Division II league by the international soccer sanctioning body, pays players less than MLS teams and top European and national teams. Players earn between $15,000 and $100,000 with most salaries below $40,000. A high draft pick in the CFL can expect a small signing bonus in their first year and salary of about $50,000. Lower selections and undrafted free agents are more toward the CFL minimum salary, which is $41,000 a year. All eight teams operate within a league-mandated $4.2-million salary cap each. I think these owners (NHL owners included) have the means collectively to make CPL more attractive to players than NASL from the get go....especially if the CSA secures a CCL spot for the league's champion as they will be registered as a Division 1 league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillermoDelQuarto Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 On 4/10/2016 at 6:45 PM, Oranje said: They forgot using tacky Euro names. I will lose my shit and may have to give up on the whole thing if Real Calgary Stampeders and Sporting Winnipeg are playing each other. Houston Dynamo anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillermoDelQuarto Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 20 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: My theory is that when the CPL logo threads are no longer visible on the FP of this site, that'll be the confirmation we will have a proper league in Canada. How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 34 minutes ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said: How so? Probably implying we won't have to be dreaming up logos, they will be there in reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillermoDelQuarto Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, Complete Homer said: Probably implying we won't have to be dreaming up logos, they will be there in reality ahh true enough. But then what would I do with my days off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Not sure if this was already posted, but https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/-canadared-soccer-weekly--new-canadian-league-nears-critical--rubber-hits-the-road--stage-182458579.html ...Closer to home, the potential Canadian professional league has moved out of the land of whispers and rumour and it seems that groundwork is actually being laid behind the scenes. By the end of this year, Montagliani said significant steps forward could be taken toward something that hasn't existed in almost a quarter-century in this country: a league we could call our own. “In terms of timelines, I think in the next three to six months we’re in the process of developing an actual business plan for this entity,” Montagliani said, adding that at this time he wouldn’t name any of the other principals the CSA is working with. “I think our goal was always to be in a position by the end of this year to be able to make some sort of announcement and say this is where we are, and this is where we’re going forward with it. "The next six months is very critical because up until now it’s all positive, but now the rubber hits the road in the next four to six months.” ... This was back near the start of March/End of Feb so at the earliest something out of the business end by May, likely not till August/September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 7 hours ago, -Hammer- said: ....we’re in the process of developing an actual business plan for this entity... So we are about to get another CUSL blueprint: http://members.shaw.ca/t.godwin/cusl/buildingthedream.pdf and odds on they don't have the deep-pocketed investors they need in place given the wording of the following: ...be in a position by the end of this year to be able to make some sort of announcement and say this is where we are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: So we are about to get another CUSL blueprint: By all the gods lets hope not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: So we are about to get another CUSL blueprint: http://members.shaw.ca/t.godwin/cusl/buildingthedream.pdf and odds on they don't have the deep-pocketed investors they need in place given the wording of the following: ...be in a position by the end of this year to be able to make some sort of announcement and say this is where we are... Well, the CSA can hopefully now focus on Plan B. Plan A was reach for the skies, but no substance. Plan B with NASL and USL involvement is the safest way to build up a league. The only way this CPL has deeper pocketed owners is get Kraft and Hunt on board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Having this pro league in the works and the timeline described in the yahoo article probably all ties into the 2026 World Cup hosting bid process, which is heating up again: http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/04/12/mexico-reportedly-finalizing-2026-world-cup-bid-could-battle-us-canada but I'd be amazed if that goes anywhere other than the United States at this point, if it is still seen as CONCACAF's turn by the new powers that be in Geneva. There probably was a shot at it happening when Traffic Sports and Sepp Blatter were still part of the mix in FIFA terms. Think that bidding process all still has to unfold until we get back to plan B again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Having this pro league in the works and the timeline described in the yahoo article probably all ties into the 2026 World Cup hosting bid process, which is heating up again: http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/04/12/mexico-reportedly-finalizing-2026-world-cup-bid-could-battle-us-canada but I'd be amazed if that goes anywhere other than the United States at this point, if it is still seen as CONCACAF's turn by the new powers that be in Geneva. There probably was a shot at it happening when Traffic Sports and Sepp Blatter were still part of the mix in FIFA terms. Think that bidding process all still has to unfold until we get back to plan B again. Latest news I saw was that there was some consideration of a joint bid. Not sure why the current group would have any good will towards the USA - they USA did oppose them in the elections after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 If the fix isn't in as with 2018 and 2022 based on various inducements to the people doing the voting, I think whether we like it or not the US has the stadia, corporate sponsors and population to make FIFA as an organization the most money and a 32 year gap is reasonable enough. What made 2026 potentially viable at one point for the CSA was that the USSF was still in the huff about Qatar getting to host and were not planning on bidding again until Sepp Blatter fell from grace. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soccer-insider/wp/2016/02/29/did-fifa-election-results-boost-u-s-s-2026-world-cup-prospects/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 22 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: If the fix isn't in as with 2018 and 2022 based on various inducements to the people doing the voting, I think whether we like it or not the US has the stadia, corporate sponsors and population to make FIFA as an organization the most money and a 32 year gap is reasonable enough. What made 2026 potentially viable at one point for the CSA was that the USSF was still in the huff about Qatar getting to host and were not planning on bidding again until Sepp Blatter fell from grace. Let me break down what you said... US has the stadia: If all level of government supports the CSA Bids, we have enough time and expertise to upgrade and build stadiums to FIFA standards by 2026. It always came down to money, not because we couldn't make it happen. corporate sponsors: It's the FIFA World Cup. You could hold it on Mars and sponsors would line up for it...*cough* Qatar*cough* population to make FIFA as an organization the most money: Again...look at Qatar. Can't say much about their population. Besides, much of their money will be made by sponsorship and TV deals. As long as all our stadiums are full every games, they will make just as much money. and a 32 year gap is reasonable enough: How about of all CONCACAF countries capable of organizing it, Canada's the only one who held all the other versions of it broke records after records for those less popular world cups even rescued the latest women world cup and made it the biggest ever After all this corruption PR nightmare, if you really want to set the tone in a new era of integrity, you don't get safer than Canada. It's not like FIFA will forget nor forgive the USA for the massive scandal they got themselves into which changed the status quo forever...which made so many of them rich. Yes, some went to jail, some lost their jobs, but the core of those corrupt people are still there... They aren't making the Americans any favors this time around. If the Victor Montagliani makes it as CONCACAF president, that's another obstacle the US would have to overcome as he would favor Canada...which most of CONCACAF nations are rumored to be supportive of Montagliani candidacy. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/victor-montagliani-concacaf-presidency-1.3533001 CONCACAF's president is automatically a FIFA vice-president and member of FIFA's ruling executive committee, which is being renamed the FIFA council. Good luck Victor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 The Achilles heel is whether a country that lacks its own domestic pro league should get the World Cup? Hence why there needs to be something to announce later this year, so it can be sold as a legacy project like MLS was for 1994. Think that's going to be a tough sell, personally, but would be delighted to be proved wrong. FIFA needs soccer to strengthen further in the USA and China to secure future revenue streams in the coming decades. Canada is in the same boat as Australia in having quite a bit to offer, but not having the population of a superpower to make it a vital cog for FIFA globally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 15 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: The Achilles heel is whether a country that lacks its own domestic pro league should get the World Cup? Hence why there needs to be something to announce later this year, so it can be sold as a legacy project like MLS was for 1994. Think that's going to be a tough sell, personally, but would be delighted to be proved wrong. FIFA needs soccer to strengthen further in the USA and China to secure future revenue streams in the coming decades. Canada is in the same boat as Australia in having quite a bit to offer, but not having the population of a superpower to make it a vital cog for FIFA globally. Victor Montagliani said there will be an announcement for it. CSA knows that, hence pushing for the league to be up and running sooner rather than later. I'm betting the rewards of a FIFA World Cup is what CSA is selling potential team owners to dig and expect to keep digging in their pockets for the league, even if there was a slow start. The return on Investment (ROI) if we do win the bid would justify these owners dumping money into the CPL. This looks like a game of chess...slowly but surely, Canada's placing its pieces on the board...flying under the radar. Victor Montagliani winning the CONCACAF presidency would be a huge catalyst to a chain of events regarding the CSA next steps. CONCACAF's president is automatically a FIFA vice-president and member of FIFA's ruling executive committee, which is being renamed the FIFA council. This pretty much secures the CPL Champion having a CONCACAF Championship spot if this happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 The original plan appears to have been to hook up with the NASL when Traffic Sports was still a big factor in ownership terms and have a Canadian branded division running alongside the NASL with a Can-Am format soccerbowl at the end of every season. This has been discussed in blogs and even in some newspaper articles, but that now appears to be a non-starter in NASL terms post-Traffic. As you say the payoff for CFL owners in terms of the money that can be involved with the World Cup is obvious, which is why the dream still appears to be alive to a certain extent courtesy of the Ticats. The CSA might as well give it a whirl on a hosting bid. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Think the CONCACAF presidency is more about what's good for Victor Montagliani on a personal level than what's good for Canadian soccer and you are reading too much into that angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted April 14, 2016 Author Share Posted April 14, 2016 20 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: The Achilles heel is whether a country that lacks its own domestic pro league should get the World Cup? Hence why there needs to be something to announce later this year, so it can be sold as a legacy project like MLS was for 1994. Well, I would not sell it as a "legacy" project. That implies the league would start AFTER the tournament. I hope the business plan for, and commitments from stakeholders to, the CanPL can be part of the bid if they have not actually started playing when the bid is voted on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 On April 13, 2016 at 0:55 PM, BringBackTheBlizzard said: The original plan appears to have been to hook up with the NASL when Traffic Sports was still a big factor in ownership terms and have a Canadian branded division running alongside the NASL with a Can-Am format soccerbowl at the end of every season. This has been discussed in blogs and even in some newspaper articles, but that now appears to be a non-starter in NASL terms post-Traffic. As you say the payoff for CFL owners in terms of the money that can be involved with the World Cup is obvious, which is why the dream still appears to be alive to a certain extent courtesy of the Ticats. The CSA might as well give it a whirl on a hosting bid. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Think the CONCACAF presidency is more about what's good for Victor Montagliani on a personal level than what's good for Canadian soccer and you are reading too much into that angle. I think if Montagliani wins CONCACAF, he might have Canada get preferential treatment. Before Jack Warner came aboard, T & T soccer was semi pro and just disorgnaized. When he became CONCACAF prez, he helped make it abit more professional, got Joe Public off the ground, gave T & T easy WCQ round, just look at Harts cakewalk to the Hex now, due to having an easy schedule and of course, being able to go to FIFA events and vote. Same applies with the ex South American prez, Nicolas Leoz. He got Paraguay favourable calls and was constantly helping the domestic league, but of course he also gave Argentina and Brasil what they want, which is to say Victor would still jump hoops for Mexico and USA. It's be good if Victor can make Canada a heavyweight in FIFA politics, but like politicians, he needs a lot of campaign money and buying votes. Just because Jack Warner was ousted doesn't mean CONCACAF is clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insigne24 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Hello I am new to this forum and I found this thread the most exciting because of the proposal of a Canadian League. Just wondering, but what happened to the CSL and is there any chance that this new Canadian Premier League could use some of those CSL teams down the line? For the longest time I always thought the CSL was our professional league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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