Canadian Premier League

[Alex D]

5 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Please note this is rumour and innuendo and common sense.  I have no link or direct proof

Can we just make this the name of the thread?

[Rheo]

32 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Yes we are adults, it's called a debate. Don't take things so personal

 

No offense and not a big deal to me personally but you did come off as condescending when we were debating yesterday.  We agreed to disagree and I chose to drop it.  As I've said, we all want the same thing here, we just think there are different ways to get there.  Cheers

[Rheo]

5 minutes ago, Alex D said:

Can we just make this the name of the thread?

Not to bring up wrestling again but it's a line from the Bruce Pritchard aka Brother Love podcast when they talk about the old dirt sheets and the internet now and found it appropriate lol.

[Levi Oakey]

Second time wrestling has been brought up in the CPL thread. I suggest we change this thread to CPL - Wrestling and Innuendo.

[rob.notenboom]

1 hour ago, Levi Oakey said:

Second time wrestling has been brought up in the CPL thread. I suggest we change this thread to CPL - Wrestling and Innuendo.

Innuendo about CPL and Wrestling? Just want to keep things in order of most to least

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...we do have documented proof that this is how it works in a Hamilton context, however, which is why there is no danger of an ownership group other than the Ticats suddenly deciding a Hamilton team would be a good idea at least until 2018 when their exclusivity clause for soccer runs out. OSEG did a deal with the City of Ottawa where TD Place is concerned and soccer was part of it in the shape of the Fury along with the CFL team. I would be amazed if they don't have exclusivity for as long as the Fury are still playing.

***So a CPL Ottawa could indeed operate out of TD Place Stadium if another group ever wanted to start a team...perhaps a certain Melnyk who tried to have his own team but the city went with Oseg proposal instead (most likely cheaper to refurbish a stadium than building from scratch. Seems that Melnyk had a HEAVY hand in having the city of Ottawa turning down the exclusivity rights.

Perhaps he was planning for the future? Seems the claims that Melnyk was not interested in a soccer franchise were exaggerated and there were circumstances to why it didn't happen, but now, there's CPL around the corner. So if Melnyk was interested in a CPL franchise, who would the CPL group prefer to include in their circle? OSEG or Senators Sports and Entertainment? 

To me, the answer is an absolute no brainer***

 

Source

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/exclusivity+clauses+removed+from+lansdowne+plans/3202634/story.html

Exclusivity clauses removed from Lansdowne plans

OTTAWA — Contentious clauses have been removed from the proposed Lansdowne redevelopment agreement after concerns were raised that the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group would have a monopoly over stadiums and arenas during the next 30 years.

Officials scrambled to negotiate new terms of the proposed deal after councillors and Senators Sports and Entertainment said the clauses were a problem.

Ottawa Mayor Larry O'Brien said Friday that OSEG agreed to remove the clauses as council heads toward a final vote expected next week.

"That just takes that issue right off the table. It's what my council colleagues wanted, it's what, as a partner, OSEG decided to bring to the table" he said.

Cyril Leeder, president of Senators Sports and Entertainment, had complained the clauses unfairly benefited OSEG, which is working with the city on the proposed redevelopment that includes refurbishment of Frank Clair Stadium along with retail and residential development.

 

Under the clauses, the city couldn’t have built a new stadium facility “which competes with the Lansdowne stadium” (anything with more than 5,000 seats) for 30 years unless it terminated its agreement.

(A private party could have built a stadium if the city didn’t participate, council was told).

Another clause would also have given OSEG – which would own the CFL team playing at Lansdowne – the first chance to lease the competing new stadium if it contained football facilities.

OSEG, also owners of the OHL team at the Urbandale Centre, would also have had the first opportunity to lease the competing stadium if it had hockey facilities.

Leeder told the Citizen in an e-mail that “the city should not grant a stadium or arena exclusive to OSEG.”

He called it “unfair and inappropriate” to do so when the city would fund the stadium refurbishment and Senators Sports and Entertainment has “an ongoing proposal for a soccer stadium.”

Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk previously proposed his own stadium for professional soccer in Kanata, to be built beside Scotiabank Place. Melnyk wanted city support, but Lansdowne was council’s priority.

Leeder, who also sent a separate e-mail to city councillors, added that “the sports and entertainment scene in Ottawa will change dramatically over next five, 10 and 30 years," and "the city should not handcuff themselves or future councils.”

[GimliJetsMan]

I'd assume the Bomber's ownership will look at this. Investor's is right on Campus, so they could draw a lot of students at the right price point that could bring some awesome atmosphere to the ground. Also Getting some more dates filled should help them pay down the stadium.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Not sure you are reading that right. That article seems to be about the issue of City of Ottawa funding for competing stadia and arenas being built in the next 30 years rather than what happens at TD place. The Senators angle on that would have been what happens if they build a new arena, which I think they are now trying to do? Don't see anything in that, which suggests that a second pro soccer franchise could suddenly barge their way into TD Place.

[top cheese]

London could work,

makes no sense as well why a franchise would want to continue playing lower level NASL or USL and struggle financially then play in a domestic league that has tremendous potential.

 

[-Hammer-]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Not sure you are reading that right. That article seems to be about the issue of City of Ottawa funding for competing stadia and arenas being built in the next 30 years rather than what happens at TD place. The Senators angle on that would have been what happens if they build a new arena, which I think they are now trying to do? Don't see anything in that, which suggests that a second pro soccer franchise could suddenly barge their way into TD Place.

He's right, those exclusivity clauses have nothing to do with OESG's management contract to TD Place which gives them general control of the facility. It merely means Ottawa is allowed to fund other stadiums if they choose to do so, and OESG doesn't gain any kind of rights over new stadiums, which they had previously worked into the deal and Ottawa removed at Melnyk's request.

Basically, if Melnyk ends up not being able to work out a deal for TD Place with OESG, there is nothing stopping him from asking the city for some cash to build a new soccer stadium (possibly paired with a new hockey stadium) and renting it out. That's it. TD Place is still OESG's facility until their lease runs out.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Lol so speaking of wrestling, next time someone tells you CPL will fail like the last canadian soccer league iteration, curtly remind them that the last time it was attempted, wrestling was very popular.

Things have changed since the 90s XD

[PJSweet]

On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 8:35 PM, baulderdash77 said:

Yikes that's really not a great deal.  Players have to be in a a TFC or MLS approved academy before they turn 16 AND sign USL/MLS deals as their first contract.  That's a very defensive and anti-CPL stance.  

Why would the CSA sign into such a deal if it's going to hurt the CanPL and Canadian interest. I'm now shaking my head.

[Rheo]

6 minutes ago, PJSweet said:

Why would the CSA sign into such a deal if it's going to hurt the CanPL and Canadian interest. I'm now shaking my head.

Because they weren't going to get much and it's better than nothing.  It still does help those in the league now and those who choose the academy class.  And helps the Canadian teams as they can move these players to US based teams more easily.

Besides as I've said previously it's the American division one league.  It's nice that they do anything for us.  They're not obligated to.  But it underlines why the CPL is needed.

[Levi Oakey]

Just to be clear on that Canadian deal. Right now, we have just 24 Canadians in MLS. We have nearly 600000 male youth players.

If you add in USL, you will probably have a few more, but for the most part, a very small percentage of our youth players are going to reach pro.

What I have been thinking about more is both Paul Beirne and Victor Montagliani talking about how the CPL will not be a league completely focused on bums in seats, but on developing players. Right now 2/3 of transfer money goes to the team that sold the player that is NOT a Homegrown Player, Generation adidas Player, or player acquired via the MLS SuperDraft. Homegrowns are 3/4 and the rest transferred more to MLS. 

I know a common complaint in US soccer circles is taht out of all this, the teams that develop the talents get basically nothing. And MLS on the whole has had a very negative perception of transfer fees being paid to other American leagues. If the CPL is focused on player development, they could make sure that there is a greater waterfall of money to teams and potentially take less of a cut for themselves. This could help smaller amateur clubs remain more competitive and encourage players to stay local. 

[matty]

9 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Judging by Bob Young's tweet above, I suspect 75% would be a better bet. TFC has around 30% cancon on its roster. A number that low makes it easy to field a team with no Canadian starters.

Yea I'm hoping it's at least 50. My whole thing was the lowest of expectations i see here. Except for maybe the League Two level of play which seems fairly likely (maybe upper league two lower league one)

[-Hammer-]

So, got this in my email as I am a Ti-Cat season ticket holder.

Tiger-Cats fans – tell us what you think about soccer!

Bob Young, owner of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats is obviously committed to the city of Hamilton and Canadian football. For the past 13 years he has put his heart and soul into reviving the Tiger-Cats team and brand for our great city.

Bob is also committed to bringing professional soccer back to the city of Hamilton to play at Tim Hortons Field. Tim Hortons Field is a proven first class football and soccer facility, and the ideal venue from a fan experience perspective for both sports. He will be equally committed to both teams and will ensure they have a positive impact in our community both on and off the field. In order to launch a successful soccer club, Ticats fan input and engagement is important to us. Help us take the first step.

Professional soccer plans to kick off in Hamilton, spring 2018 and we want to hear from you – give us your feedback and comments as we look to shape the next successful professional soccer club launch in North America.

 

It then proceeds into a survey, with a couple new questions like requests on team name, would you be interested in a THF season pass, what soccer do you follow and does trend some already gone over ground. So yeah...looks like the wheels are spinning.

[BuzzAndSting]

5 hours ago, Ansem said:

Who owns TD Stadium? Last time I checked, it was the City of Ottawa

Yes they do. However OSEG has a pretty lengthy lease with convenants protecting against other sports teams or events occurring without their consent or control. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

No CPL mention anywhere in the Ticats email?

Edit: reason I ask is that it looks like pro soccer in Hamilton is a sure thing regardless of what happens on the league.

[-Hammer-]

21 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

No CPL mention anywhere in the Ticats email?

No Blizzard, no mention of CPL in the email.

However lets save some time before another argument breaks out

On one side, this must mean the Ti-Cats are buying an NASL team, or a USL team, or that this league isn't happening and the Ti-Cats are getting a League 1 Ontario team because the CanPL is not official and will never work and that we are all fools for thinking Canadian improvement could occur through any other means but MLS of the course of decades.

It also means to the most ardent CanPL supporters that the league is a lock for Spring 2018, that we'll all have a packed THF to support a new Hamilton team to go with 12 other markets who have expressed interest and that Canada's soccer woes will suddenly be solved in time for the next world cup cycle because MLS hates Canadian people.

and then resolve that maybe the truth lies somewhere in between.

Anyways, some of this survey looks like a rehash, catered for Ti-Cat season ticket holders vs local soccer stakeholders and enthusiasts.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Does anyone else want CPL to try continuous OT for cup games?  you wanna win over the hockey crowd or not?

[PJSweet]

Halifax Mayor Mike Savage has now openly endorsed Halifax's CPL bid. He met privately with CPL Marketing Director Paul Beirne behind close doors to discuss the potentials of the bid in his city.

 

[matty]

16 minutes ago, PJSweet said:

Halifax Mayor Mike Savage has now openly endorsed Halifax's CPL bid. He met privately with CPL Marketing Director Paul Beirne behind close doors to discuss the potentials of the bid in his city.

 

Nice

[shermanator]

Since it could impact a Calgary CPL team, Calgary mayor Naheed Nenshi said today that the CalgaryNEXT project is not going to happen in the current economy. The project was DOA right from the start, and personally I'm really glad to see that the project is on the shelf.

My guess would be that McMahon gets renovated in place of a new stadium. Either that or they tear down half the stadium and rebuild, then the other half and rebuild.

 

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

Since it could impact a Calgary CPL team, Calgary mayor Naheed Nenshi said today that the CalgaryNEXT project is not going to happen in the current economy. The project was DOA right from the start, and personally I'm really glad to see that the project is on the shelf.

My guess would be that McMahon gets renovated in place of a new stadium. Either that or they tear down half the stadium and rebuild, then the other half and rebuild.

 

I never found McMahon bad anyway 

[BradMack]

8 hours ago, Ansem said:

 There's a reason deep pocket owners are needed. They usually have more than one business at a time. Take MLSE. You think TFC turned a profit every year? Hell no, but... the Maple Leafs does and compensate for those losses, especially now since they are owned by both Bell and Rogers. They might lose money in one area of the business but the portfolio can still turn huge profits. You think the Jays made money every year? Hell know, but there's a reason why MLB are very selective on their ownership, pretty much every major North American leagues.

That's what allowed MLS to survive and thrive. Anything less than that and CPL will fail. It needs the same type of owners and we should all be cheering and hoping for that. Anything less than that and I would have been on the D2 bandwagon a long time ago.

 

The London Knight are 2nd in attendance in the CHL. There's a sport culture in that city and soccer has history in London as well, just never had a top league. They have the population and corporate presence to support a team like the CPL.

CPL will be a very gate driven league. That's why CPL can work in London while NHL would be very hard to justify due to the TV aspect of the market not bringing much value to the league.

 

Oh, boy, here it come...., you do know that we're a very multicultural G7 nation... With that mentality, we would have never built the railroad from coast to coast, or had become the 4th most powerful navy in the world by the end of WW2, or grow to become a G7 nation or the world's 10th economy in the world despite our small population, etc...

We're very capable when we want/need to achieve things

end of patriotism rant...

They seemed to have found 6 of them. If more will be willing to invest will be determined with how the league performs in the early years... Just like MLS had to go through as well, pretty much same for every major leagues when they started.

Sure, soccer is unproven in the rest of Canada but we have better attendances for minor world cups and Women's World Cup than Americans. We have higher TV viewership than Americans during the MLS playoffs, by a landslide. Hell, even CFL have better viewership and TV contract than the MLS in the US. Look at the Jays vs. American markets or the Raptors. Our hockey contract is double in value than the entire United States contract.

There's a pattern here. Give Canadians something meaningful and that matters to cheer for and they will. Try and feed them 2nd rate and they will treat it as such (AHL, NASL, USL). Hell, even curling has stronger viewership than some sports on some occasion...

Montreal Impact got some recognition when they had their CCL match at Olympic stadium in 2009. No one cared about them in NASL, yet, they jumped in MLS, got a new stadium and they became mainstream in the city giving CFL a run for it's money

CPL is most likely the opposite of what CSL used to be and it was at a time where soccer was far from mainstream in Canada, time have changed. You're comparing apples and watermelons here

Why are you going to such extremes? All the richest Canadians? how about we start with 6 of them and perhaps give this league a chance to prove that it can succeed thus attracting more?

Look at what happened with MLS, the initial investors threw money at their franchise and lost money. Now, they are laughing at how much more valuable their franchise is in comparison to the initial investment. Some of them saw a 400% increase in value and that surely not thanks to their TV contract. They slowly and surely build up their base to what it is today.

You do know that CFL with only 9 teams have better TV viewership and contract, similar salary cap (outside of DP) and similar attendance than MLS? It's not in the realm of insanity to think that there isn't money to be made long term in Canada with a top league IF done right.

Yes we are adults, it's called a debate. Don't take things so personal

 "saying you may have fabricated that ?"

Don't be a prick. Victor Montagliani said it himself regarding the confidentiality agreements in radio interviews I've heard and it makes sense. Just be patient and wait for the announcement

Alright man, I can already tell we could just keep debating each other on these points forever and we're probably both too busy to do that. It's not that I don't believe London could work, I just don't believe the CHL team doing well has anything to do with soccer. Just like I don't believe the CFL (Thats been around since before a lot of us were born) doing well will have any effect on investors looking at a start up soccer league with zero history. And it's been pro north american soccer teams problem for years that they can't capture the potential immigrant fanbase so I don't feel like that holds much weight either. I mean, just look at what happens when the world cup comes around, most of them have very strong ties to the old country. Eurosnobbery will be an issue, and even the MLS comparisons will be an issue. All I'm trying to say is we need to  look at things realistically here as we don't have much confirmed information yet. We don't know that theres 6 teams confirmed. We don't know if there's a TV deal, we don't know much of anything. But we'll just have to agree to disagree on these things. We're both on this forum though so it's clear we both want this to work, and especially for me now that there could be a team 35 minutes away from me.