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11 minutes ago, BradMack said:

I think you're going pretty far here to make my points look moot. London does exist, it is a real place on earth, with a league 1 team, but certainly not a place that pays professional athletes a liveable wage to play high level soccer. It doesn't have a large stadium that people go and pay a lot of money to watch soccer at. It doesn't have a full time professional academy developing Cyle Larins and Michael Bradley's like you were alluding to. Something probably not possible without MLSE involvement.

A D2, arguably a D3 league since you'd welcome USL teams with open arms wouldn't bring the benefits you're talking about either. MLSE aren't the only billionaires in this country. You might not care about the notion of "conflict of interest" or "business 101" but that doesn't change the fact that those 2 stands in the way of MLSE operating or having an affiliate in CPL. There's nothing stopping them from being a minority partner, making it easier for a majority partner to own a CPL club and operate it. Why isn't this a viable solution to you too?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but London proved very capable at getting fans to pay for a sport product, like the London Knights. How can you make such an assumption on the London market where there hasn't been any precedents of a top soccer league in London? BTW, London has over 500k in their metro area, so they can support a team, and have a solid corporate presence...FYI

22 minutes ago, BradMack said:

I would also like to know who these 6 confirmed owners are that are 100% in at league launch please inform us

It wouldn't be much of a "confidentiality agreement" if I were to know who those owners were, right?

23 minutes ago, BradMack said:

Lastly, when NYCFC entered the league everyone was scared it would take away from MLS' legitimacy. This is a fact, and it is just like what you're scared of with this TFC/London thing. There are millions of people in the USA who don't watch MLS because its inferior to the Prem. Those people were laughing at MLS when City football group announced a team in NYC that looked exactly like the big club but had significantly worse players. But in hindsight its actually turning out to be a good move because the investors behind it are big time and know what they are doing. 

Yankee stadium....embarrassing!  Ok I see where you're getting at, NYCFC and Manchester City have an ocean between them, aren't competing for the same fans in terms of attendance and it's hard to claim they are competing for viewership as their season aren't even at the same time for most of the year.

But Frank Lampard in MLS was a failure who bashed the league in the process before leaving...while reinforcing the view in Europe and the soccer world that MLS is a retirement league. See how MLS brand is damaged internationally? Even my French uncle laughed at MLS about being a retirement home when I was defending it for having Thierry Henry. Garber started to realize it and even said he's aware of the perception and said he'd advocate for the league to stay away from those DPs.

If you don't understand how accepting MLS B Teams in CPL could be equally damageable to the CPL brand, I don't know what to tell you. 

How about giving CPL a chance before calling it a failure and running to big brother USSF to save us?

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35 minutes ago, BradMack said:

Where are you getting this information? Do you have any sources or are you just assuming these things because you think MLSE is the devil? You seem to be pulling a lot of "confirmed" things out of thin air and its starting to dilute your actual good points.

They want to put an affiliate in London, that heavily implies some level of involvement on the management part of operating the team.

MLSE isn't the devil. It's has "shareholders" and the main goal is PROFITS AND MORE PROFITS :rolleyes:

Protecting your monopoly is a sure way to do that, business 101...They'd put affiliates all over Ontario if they could. Seriously guys, sports is a business, you have to see it from a business point of view from time to time

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18 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

MLS's limited Canadian content for years, and even now is limited. Since TFC joined, the paltry 3 Canadian roster requirement was a joke. That did the CSA no favors and was only changed because uncle vic threatened to pull the plug if something wasn't done, and even then stopped short of simply making Canadians domestics across the board.

In return, if an MLS investor wants to invest in the CPL and says "But we have to be affiliated because MLS requires it" I respond with "Provide us with what you are contractually obligated to have in terms of "affiliation" and we'll consider that as our starting point and work our way down from there. You must understand our desire to not make this league a farm league"

So how do you allow affiliated teams in CPL without being considered a farm league? Even USSF aren't that keen on giving D2 to USL for that very same reason (too many MLS affiliated teams). They seems to want that sorted out before that happens

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2 minutes ago, matty said:

I think if the MLS clubs wants to partner with the league that's fine but actually having a say in CPL affairs or owning clubs should be out of the question unless worst comes to worst and they're needed in such roles

If CPL is to succeed assuming that's their ambition, staying away from any mention of MLS is a necessity. Again, MLS doesn't talk Liga MX unless it's the CCL. Why give free publicity to a league that has a higher level of play and kills you on TV viewership? Good thing USSF would never allow Liga MX franchise in the US or it would be a disaster for southern US market for MLS

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59 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Not sure exploiting "loopholes" gets you in CPL. I think that the OFFC would have to terminate their affiliation with Montreal if they were to join CPL, which seems unlikely due to Montreal closing FC Montreal...

I'm starting to think that another group of owners will operate the Ottawa CPL team, not OSEG. Becoming a Montreal affiliate will come back to hunt them. Montreal-Ottawa has rivalries in NHL and CFL, not sure the fans likes what's going on.

For me, OFFC burned themselves and CPL should stay away from that brand

Where would this new team play?

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Just now, Ansem said:

If CPL is to succeed assuming that's their ambition, staying away from any mention of MLS is a necessity. Again, MLS doesn't talk Liga MX unless it's the CCL. Why give free publicity to a league that has a higher level of play and kills you on TV viewership? Good thing USSF would never allow Liga MX franchise in the US or it would be a disaster for southern US market for MLS

MLS and Liga MX do interact a lot outside of CCL and it's likely to expand now. Liga MX want to revamp the NASuperLiga and the next MLS All-Star game might be MLS vs Liga MX.

Early loan deals that allow teams to avoid "affiliate club" status could be useful for the CPL to reach a stable level of play and score CanMNT players under contract to MLS clubs. It's something that, if not right, would not hurt the league. MLS very much could be the CPL's best friend it's just a matter of setting boundaries.

Also CPL should seek to be included in the new NASuperLiga should it come to be.

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5 hours ago, shermanator said:

Those tweets are from @Complete Homer if I'm not mistaken. Curious as to who his source is.

OK, couple things 

1) I shouldn't have tweeted that. There was a mix up regarding permission to leak that, so I assume that bridge is effectively burned. I feel bad about it, and probably won't have any follow up information

2) This is extremely early, it is very far from being a sure thing. At this point, I think it's just a possibility, not even sure if it was proposed to the CSA yet

That's all I'm saying on the matter, I might have inadvertently done some damage tweeting this :S

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11 minutes ago, Ansem said:

A D2, arguably a D3 league since you'd welcome USL teams with open arms wouldn't bring the benefits you're talking about either. MLSE aren't the only billionaires in this country. You might not care about the notion of "conflict of interest" or "business 101" but that doesn't change the fact that those 2 stands in the way of MLSE operating or having an affiliate in CPL. There's nothing stopping them from being a minority partner, making it easier for a majority partner to own a CPL club and operate it. Why isn't this a viable solution to you too?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but London proved very capable at getting fans to pay for a sport product, like the London Knights. How can you make such an assumption on the London market where there hasn't been any precedents of a top soccer league in London? BTW, London has over 500k in their metro area, so they can support a team, and have a solid corporate presence...FYI

It wouldn't be much of a "confidentiality agreement" if I were to know who those owners were, right?

Yankee stadium....embarrassing!  Ok I see where you're getting at, NYCFC and Manchester City have an ocean between them, aren't competing for the same fans in terms of attendance and it's hard to claim they are competing for viewership as their season aren't even at the same time for most of the year.

But Frank Lampard in MLS was a failure who bashed the league in the process before leaving...while reinforcing the view in Europe and the soccer world that MLS is a retirement league. See how MLS brand is damaged internationally? Even my French uncle laughed at MLS about being a retirement home when I was defending it for having Thierry Henry. Garber started to realize it and even said he's aware of the perception and said he'd advocate for the league to stay away from those DPs.

If you don't understand how accepting MLS B Teams in CPL could be equally damageable to the CPL brand, I don't know what to tell you. 

How about giving CPL a chance before calling it a failure and running to big brother USSF to save us?

For someone who talks a lot about business you seem to completely ignore the value of money. There are a lot of rich people in Canada, yes. But you know what rich people don't like doing? Losing money. The fact that London has a successful hockey team means absolutely nothing for soccer. We live in Canada, there's a successful junior B team in my town of 2500. You're not going to have a lot of investors willing to go into something so unproven. I know times have changed but you can't ignore the fact that the CSL happened, there was a London team, and it was a failure and had to be saved by the league just to finish its second season. That is what potential investors will be considering, they know its a money loser for at least the first few years, and after that, who knows? Making your money back is far from a guarantee. This isn't a voyageurs fantasy land where all of the richest Canadians are going to throw there money into this venture and thousands of fans are going to show up instantly. This is real now and most of the potential investors care much more about making money, than our national team.

Also, I know you're very passionate about this, so it's easy to get excited and get overly optimistic online, but please remember we're adults and can act like adults even on forums. Theres no need to be condescending and put words in my mouth just because we don't agree on everything. I'm a business student, I've taken "Business 101" I understand these concepts and I would much rather them be a minority owner. I never said I was okay with London being run like a USL team, I never said I would accept MLS B teams, I never called the CPL a failure and called for USSF to save us. I even noted that NYCFC is run like dogshit. 

And as far as the confidentiality agreement regarding the six teams that are for sure in at launch... Is that just a way to get around saying you may have fabricated that as there is absolutely no way to know that information? It's important to not get ahead of ourselves at this point, it seems like there may be a few locks but we really do not know anything outside of Hamilton and potentially Halifax. 

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I understand Ansem's point about the potential for de-valuing the CPL brand by having MLS affiliates in the league. We should certainly never see a "TFC-2" or "Ottawa Impact". 

That said, I think optics play a big role when it comes to fans' perception. If the CPL club has a completely different name, crest, colors, "identity" from the "parent-club" then I don't necessarily see a huge problem here. Again the league will have to clarify exactly what type of relationships are allowed (my hope is that it would be nothing more than a loan agreement between two clubs). 

Look, ideally we'd have completely separate, independent ownership groups for each of our pro-teams playing at the various levels of competition. However, it may be tough for the CPL to reject a deep-pocketed owner who's willing to absorb losses from the get-go; can't imagine there's too many of those around in Canada...

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1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

OK, couple things 

1) I shouldn't have tweeted that. There was a mix up regarding permission to leak that, so I assume that bridge is effectively burned. I feel bad about it, and probably won't have any follow up information

2) This is extremely early, it is very far from being a sure thing. At this point, I think it's just a possibility, not even sure if it was proposed to the CSA yet

That's all I'm saying on the matter, I might have inadvertently done some damage tweeting this :S

You should delete the tweets IMO.

You have to be very guarded with what you say in social media or with legit sources.  

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2 hours ago, Ansem said:

So how do you allow affiliated teams in CPL without being considered a farm league? Even USSF aren't that keen on giving D2 to USL for that very same reason (too many MLS affiliated teams). They seems to want that sorted out before that happens

You restrict player movement to an absurd degree. How, I don't know, or if you could even call it an affiliate at that point.

I'd say something to the effect that you can only pull during the transfer window and for a fee to the league, but less then a normal transfer fee. I assume the whole reason TFC would want a CPL team (apart from sabatoge from inside and controlling the product of soccer in our country which I'm on the fence on to be honest) is to give it's Academy players a place to play that is more financially viable in the longterm for it's players then TFC2, which even with the USLs low salary requirements, is a money drain for the club.

To be honest with you, I'd much rather them say "Independant club, no special considerations transferring out, transfer fees are shared by the whole league, if that doesn't work for MLS, too bad." just to make things of heck of a lot easier.

 

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This seems to be a little bit off the current train off thought but my biggest fear of this league will be a bunch of 75% empty CFL stadiums. I think Hamilton said they will want their team to play at Tim Horton's stadium which holds like 25,000. Ottawa currently plays in the football stadium which is also like 25,000. 

In my eyes this is a sure recipe for disaster. Nothing worse for atmosphere then playing in a cavernous empty stadium. Calgary, Regina and Winnipeg I have all also heard mentioned as possible markets - all with huge CFL stadiums. I feel if they try to go this route there will be a 100% chance of failure. Does anyone else worry about this?

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3 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

This seems to be a little bit off the current train off thought but my biggest fear of this league will be a bunch of 75% empty CFL stadiums. I think Hamilton said they will want their team to play at Tim Horton's stadium which holds like 25,000. Ottawa currently plays in the football stadium which is also like 25,000. 

In my eyes this is a sure recipe for disaster. Nothing worse for atmosphere then playing in a cavernous empty stadium. Calgary, Regina and Winnipeg I have all also heard mentioned as possible markets - all with huge CFL stadiums. I feel if they try to go this route there will be a 100% chance of failure. Does anyone else worry about this?

I think it's a legitimate concern. However, if it weren't for those same cavernous CFL stadiums sitting empty outside of a dozen or so dates a year, I don't think the impetus to start this league ever comes around

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12 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

This seems to be a little bit off the current train off thought but my biggest fear of this league will be a bunch of 75% empty CFL stadiums. I think Hamilton said they will want their team to play at Tim Horton's stadium which holds like 25,000. Ottawa currently plays in the football stadium which is also like 25,000. 

In my eyes this is a sure recipe for disaster. Nothing worse for atmosphere then playing in a cavernous empty stadium. Calgary, Regina and Winnipeg I have all also heard mentioned as possible markets - all with huge CFL stadiums. I feel if they try to go this route there will be a 100% chance of failure. Does anyone else worry about this?

I'm not sure, realistically I think it comes down to looking at the Fury. They said they were losing money with a 5,000 average, but a lot of that money is probably down the drain flying to Peurto Rico and Florida and only being able to drive to two teams. If you are able to drive to half the teams (who you play more often) and fly to half, it seems much more reasonable.

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20 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

This seems to be a little bit off the current train off thought but my biggest fear of this league will be a bunch of 75% empty CFL stadiums. I think Hamilton said they will want their team to play at Tim Horton's stadium which holds like 25,000. Ottawa currently plays in the football stadium which is also like 25,000. 

In my eyes this is a sure recipe for disaster. Nothing worse for atmosphere then playing in a cavernous empty stadium. Calgary, Regina and Winnipeg I have all also heard mentioned as possible markets - all with huge CFL stadiums. I feel if they try to go this route there will be a 100% chance of failure. Does anyone else worry about this?

I think it's a definite concern, but that being said I think it's a compromise that we as supporters are initially going to have to make. McMahon Stadium is in a great location and highly accessible by car or transit, lots of parking as well. To me these are big pluses if you're trying to attract the very casual fan to a game. I think you might be able to enhance the atmosphere via tarping and perhaps adding small portable sections in the endzone (which they already bring out for Stampeders game)

The issue in Calgary is that the city doesn't have a stadium with a capacity between 2000-35000 to use. And there aren't any realistic options in terms of expanding one of the 1000-2000 seat stadiums. The existing stadiums at Foothills and Glenmore Athletic Parks don't have room for expansion unless you remove other playing fields. Tearing down or converting the baseball stadium would be a great idea if the city wasn't planning to build a new fieldhouse on that site.

Hellard Field looks to have room to expand to probably 5000 seats, but then you run into the issue of very little parking and poor accessibility via transit, as well as too few washrooms and no concessions unless you bring in food trucks, which would further clog up the limited parking. Not to mention the inevitable football vs soccer wars (Hellard was built via private donations by the football community if I remember correctly).

Unless the Flames want to build a soccer specific stadium, which they don't, I think it's going to be something that we just have to grit our teeth and bear for now.

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3 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

OK, couple things 

1) I shouldn't have tweeted that. There was a mix up regarding permission to leak that, so I assume that bridge is effectively burned. I feel bad about it, and probably won't have any follow up information

2) This is extremely early, it is very far from being a sure thing. At this point, I think it's just a possibility, not even sure if it was proposed to the CSA yet

That's all I'm saying on the matter, I might have inadvertently done some damage tweeting this :S

Source: Complete Homer killed CPL via leaks.

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