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Since it could impact a Calgary CPL team, Calgary mayor Naheed Nenshi said today that the CalgaryNEXT project is not going to happen in the current economy. The project was DOA right from the start, and personally I'm really glad to see that the project is on the shelf.

My guess would be that McMahon gets renovated in place of a new stadium. Either that or they tear down half the stadium and rebuild, then the other half and rebuild.

 

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1 hour ago, shermanator said:

Since it could impact a Calgary CPL team, Calgary mayor Naheed Nenshi said today that the CalgaryNEXT project is not going to happen in the current economy. The project was DOA right from the start, and personally I'm really glad to see that the project is on the shelf.

My guess would be that McMahon gets renovated in place of a new stadium. Either that or they tear down half the stadium and rebuild, then the other half and rebuild.

 

I never found McMahon bad anyway 

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8 hours ago, Ansem said:

 There's a reason deep pocket owners are needed. They usually have more than one business at a time. Take MLSE. You think TFC turned a profit every year? Hell no, but... the Maple Leafs does and compensate for those losses, especially now since they are owned by both Bell and Rogers. They might lose money in one area of the business but the portfolio can still turn huge profits. You think the Jays made money every year? Hell know, but there's a reason why MLB are very selective on their ownership, pretty much every major North American leagues.

That's what allowed MLS to survive and thrive. Anything less than that and CPL will fail. It needs the same type of owners and we should all be cheering and hoping for that. Anything less than that and I would have been on the D2 bandwagon a long time ago.

 

The London Knight are 2nd in attendance in the CHL. There's a sport culture in that city and soccer has history in London as well, just never had a top league. They have the population and corporate presence to support a team like the CPL.

CPL will be a very gate driven league. That's why CPL can work in London while NHL would be very hard to justify due to the TV aspect of the market not bringing much value to the league.

 

Oh, boy, here it come...., you do know that we're a very multicultural G7 nation... With that mentality, we would have never built the railroad from coast to coast, or had become the 4th most powerful navy in the world by the end of WW2, or grow to become a G7 nation or the world's 10th economy in the world despite our small population, etc...

We're very capable when we want/need to achieve things

end of patriotism rant...

They seemed to have found 6 of them. If more will be willing to invest will be determined with how the league performs in the early years... Just like MLS had to go through as well, pretty much same for every major leagues when they started.

Sure, soccer is unproven in the rest of Canada but we have better attendances for minor world cups and Women's World Cup than Americans. We have higher TV viewership than Americans during the MLS playoffs, by a landslide. Hell, even CFL have better viewership and TV contract than the MLS in the US. Look at the Jays vs. American markets or the Raptors. Our hockey contract is double in value than the entire United States contract.

There's a pattern here. Give Canadians something meaningful and that matters to cheer for and they will. Try and feed them 2nd rate and they will treat it as such (AHL, NASL, USL). Hell, even curling has stronger viewership than some sports on some occasion...

Montreal Impact got some recognition when they had their CCL match at Olympic stadium in 2009. No one cared about them in NASL, yet, they jumped in MLS, got a new stadium and they became mainstream in the city giving CFL a run for it's money

CPL is most likely the opposite of what CSL used to be and it was at a time where soccer was far from mainstream in Canada, time have changed. You're comparing apples and watermelons here

Why are you going to such extremes? All the richest Canadians? how about we start with 6 of them and perhaps give this league a chance to prove that it can succeed thus attracting more?

Look at what happened with MLS, the initial investors threw money at their franchise and lost money. Now, they are laughing at how much more valuable their franchise is in comparison to the initial investment. Some of them saw a 400% increase in value and that surely not thanks to their TV contract. They slowly and surely build up their base to what it is today.

You do know that CFL with only 9 teams have better TV viewership and contract, similar salary cap (outside of DP) and similar attendance than MLS? It's not in the realm of insanity to think that there isn't money to be made long term in Canada with a top league IF done right.

Yes we are adults, it's called a debate. Don't take things so personal

 "saying you may have fabricated that ?"

Don't be a prick. Victor Montagliani said it himself regarding the confidentiality agreements in radio interviews I've heard and it makes sense. Just be patient and wait for the announcement

Alright man, I can already tell we could just keep debating each other on these points forever and we're probably both too busy to do that. It's not that I don't believe London could work, I just don't believe the CHL team doing well has anything to do with soccer. Just like I don't believe the CFL (Thats been around since before a lot of us were born) doing well will have any effect on investors looking at a start up soccer league with zero history. And it's been pro north american soccer teams problem for years that they can't capture the potential immigrant fanbase so I don't feel like that holds much weight either. I mean, just look at what happens when the world cup comes around, most of them have very strong ties to the old country. Eurosnobbery will be an issue, and even the MLS comparisons will be an issue. All I'm trying to say is we need to  look at things realistically here as we don't have much confirmed information yet. We don't know that theres 6 teams confirmed. We don't know if there's a TV deal, we don't know much of anything. But we'll just have to agree to disagree on these things. We're both on this forum though so it's clear we both want this to work, and especially for me now that there could be a team 35 minutes away from me. 

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19 hours ago, top cheese said:

I also don't think using existing CFL fields would be an issue. You could simply look to sell tickets just for the lower bowl. I would expect as a start up league you would be looking at 5000-6000 as average. If your being generous. Doesn't Moncton have a 30000 seat stadium at the university of Moncton.

why would Ottawa or Edmonton want to continue to operate franchises out of an unstable USL or NASL when they could enter this.

The stadium in Moncton seats 10,000 and is expandable to 20,000 with temp seating (it has been expanded a few times). They also have a Junior hockey team that draws about 4000 - 4500 people a game. However I think Halifax has a much larger population base (400,000 vs 70,000 Moncton). Also seems to have a good population base that support soccer and a few teams in the NS senior league. 

Using existing CFL fields would defiantly be an issue in my mind. Sticking a soccer field and 5000 fans in a 25,000 - 35,000 seat stadium designed for football is a recipe for poor atmosphere and a poor fan experience. Not to mention the optics for television are brutal. MLS had the right idea pushing their franchises to build soccer specific mls size stadiums.

With that being said on a practical side of course using some CFL stadiums as the league gets started will be a necessary step. Some stadiums on an optimistic side may be able to draw some nice crowds and configure the places to have a decent atmosphere and look ok for tv. Ultimately though I think the goal should be for each franchise to have a appropriately sized soccer specific complex. Many MLS teams took a decade or so to get their permanent homes started - this may be a timeframe for Canadian clubs to explore.

I dont think a league can be a long term serious endevour unless its teams have proper places to play and thrive. That's just my opinion though.

 

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I've skipped some pages here, but I'm honestly hoping that there isn't this "GTA team" that everyone always talks about.

How much pro soccer do people really think the GTHA can handle?  3 pro teams?  NYC couldn't even support 3 teams properly before the Cosmos bit the dust.

Leave it at TFC + Ham, and if interest warrants it (and that's a huge if, IMO) maybe then look at putting a third GTHA team once you're nice and stable.  I really hope they aren't crazy enough to drop one here at launch.

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6 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

I've skipped some pages here, but I'm honestly hoping that there isn't this "GTA team" that everyone always talks about.

How much pro soccer do people really think the GTHA can handle?  3 pro teams?  NYC couldn't even support 3 teams properly before the Cosmos bit the dust.

Leave it at TFC + Ham, and if interest warrants it (and that's a huge if, IMO) maybe then look at putting a third GTHA team once you're nice and stable.  I really hope they aren't crazy enough to drop one here at launch.

in 10 years or so Sauga seems plausible.  short term I agree, the last thing we want to do is kill TFC

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10 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

I've skipped some pages here, but I'm honestly hoping that there isn't this "GTA team" that everyone always talks about.

 

Toronto is a big market, and Hamilton will go after a pretty different market. I think it'll be fine. 

The Cosmos failed for a lot of reasons, the capacity to support 3 teams wasn't the largest at all. Just like years of RBNY getting poor attendance had no bearing on NYCFC's success at the ticket office 

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6 minutes ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

lol I was thinking more like 7 on 7 honestly haha, but ****, if we're getting up to the 200 minute mark maybe lol

It's not something the CPL should do, but I'd like to see some variation of actual soccer as a tiebreaker.  Maybe some 5v2 set pieces or no-keeper play.

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No one likes penalty shots, so I'd like to see an overtime that pulls players off the field as it goes on. This makes getting carded a MUCH bigger deal if it goes to OT. That said, stick to FIFA rules. Having gimmick rules is a surefire way hurt the league at inception. Have the broader discussion after it's well established.

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1 minute ago, -Hammer- said:

No one likes penalty shots, so I'd like to see an overtime that pulls players off the field as it goes on. This makes getting carded a MUCH bigger deal if it goes to OT. That said, stick to FIFA rules. Having gimmick rules is a surefire way hurt the league at inception. Have the broader discussion after it's well established.

it would be interesting to see what MLS does.  They've shown the most willingness to flout tradition.  Maybe USL would be the place to test it?

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11 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

No one likes penalty shots, so I'd like to see an overtime that pulls players off the field as it goes on. This makes getting carded a MUCH bigger deal if it goes to OT. That said, stick to FIFA rules. Having gimmick rules is a surefire way hurt the league at inception. Have the broader discussion after it's well established.

Might work well in hockey, where you can sub players every 30 seconds.  Not so much in soccer, where your players are wiped after 120 minutes on the pitch.

Wouldn't be entertaining, safe, or produce a good result if you pushed people like that.

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19 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Might work well in hockey, where you can sub players every 30 seconds.  Not so much in soccer, where your players are wiped after 120 minutes on the pitch.

Wouldn't be entertaining, safe, or produce a good result if you pushed people like that.

I mean you could always play around with the amount of subs allowed.

Just feel like it's worth exploring somewhat.  I feel like half of the new fans we gained with the MLS semi-final we lost with the final being decided by PKs.  I'm willing to try new things if it's in the good of the sport in North America, as long as the principle is the same as bringing in VR.  Small changes but nothing massive that will completely alter the fabric of the game as we know it.  Tweaks as opposed to overhauls.

But I feel like this is just one where we should agree to disagree. 

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I think CPL, and MLS for that matter, should stick with FIFA rules. That being said, I would support FIFA making changes like taking a player from each team off the field for every 5 minutes from the start of extra time, rather than after playing half an hour extra first. I suppose this would make it golden goal. They could also allow a 4th sub at some point, either the start of extra time, or maybe when it gets down to 7 on 7 or something. I'm not sure if I would reduce teams to less than that, but probably. Anyways, something along those lines would probably be better than a shootout in my opinion (but not as ideal as a game that is decided in extra time).

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2 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

it would be interesting to see what MLS does.  They've shown the most willingness to flout tradition.  Maybe USL would be the place to test it?

Well, it is pretty much what the NHL does in hockey in the AHL and the NFL has been known to look at CFL rule changes when they have their meetings.

That said, people readily and appropriately call the AHL a somewhat bush farm league and the often say the CFL is bush (which I feel is unjustified) so yeah...the USL is where this gets tested, not the CPL.

Edited by -Hammer-

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2 hours ago, Kent said:

I think CPL, and MLS for that matter, should stick with FIFA rules. That being said, I would support FIFA making changes like taking a player from each team off the field for every 5 minutes from the start of extra time, rather than after playing half an hour extra first. I suppose this would make it golden goal. They could also allow a 4th sub at some point, either the start of extra time, or maybe when it gets down to 7 on 7 or something. I'm not sure if I would reduce teams to less than that, but probably. Anyways, something along those lines would probably be better than a shootout in my opinion (but not as ideal as a game that is decided in extra time).

7 on 7 after 100+ minutes could become agonizingly slow. I don't think it would open the game up as much as it does in hockey.

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This thread has seriously run its course if we are honestly discussing anything like these sorts of rule changes.  When CPL happens, it should stick to traditional rules.  That mean regular season draws and pk's after extra time in games where there must be a winner.

It will be hard enough establishing a solid fan base among those who are predisposed to watch euro footy or MLS - lets not alienate that base right from the outset by implementing mickey mouse rules that would absolutely make us look bush league.  We are not trying to invent Calvinball here.

 

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14 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

I've skipped some pages here, but I'm honestly hoping that there isn't this "GTA team" that everyone always talks about.

How much pro soccer do people really think the GTHA can handle?  3 pro teams?  NYC couldn't even support 3 teams properly before the Cosmos bit the dust.

Leave it at TFC + Ham, and if interest warrants it (and that's a huge if, IMO) maybe then look at putting a third GTHA team once you're nice and stable.  I really hope they aren't crazy enough to drop one here at launch.

Having a team in one of the big 3 markets would be a big boost to the league's image and the GTA as the largest would help the most, especially at the launch. It's the largest media market and most likely to be able to score you TV viewers.

Also Cosmos didn't die because of lack of support.

 

Edited by matty
removed a big chunk because I misread something see below comment for full version

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4 minutes ago, matty said:

Having a team in one of the big 3 markets would be a big boost to the league's image and the GTA as the largest would help the most, especially at the launch. It's the largest media market and most likely to be able to score you TV viewers.

Also Cosmos didn't die because of lack of support and suggesting that TFC2 will contribute to a GTA CPL team's struggles to make a dent is ridiculous.

 

Not suggesting TFC2 would - I'm suggesting that TFC, Hamilton, and Vaughan/Mississauga/GTA wouldn't be sustainable at the caliber we're hoping for.

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1 minute ago, Gopherbashi said:

Not suggesting TFC2 would - I'm suggesting that TFC, Hamilton, and Vaughan/Mississauga/GTA wouldn't be sustainable at the caliber we're hoping for.

Sorry missed the H there but I still disagree. Hamilton will not greatly impact a Toronto team unless for some dumb reason they name a Toronto team "Golden Horseshoe FC".

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16 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

The stadium in Moncton seats 10,000 and is expandable to 20,000 with temp seating (it has been expanded a few times). They also have a Junior hockey team that draws about 4000 - 4500 people a game. However I think Halifax has a much larger population base (400,000 vs 70,000 Moncton). Also seems to have a good population base that support soccer and a few teams in the NS senior league. 

True, Halifax has over 417k in their metro area but 1.6 million people are within 3 hour drive from Moncton. Granted it won't guarantee anything on weekdays but on weekends, it's a new thing to due for families and friends to do...getting into Moncton for a top league match while invigorating the Moncton core economy.

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

True, Halifax has over 417k in their metro area but 1.6 million people are within 3 hour drive from Moncton. Granted it won't guarantee anything on weekdays but on weekends, it's a new thing to due for families and friends to do...getting into Moncton for a top league match while invigorating the Moncton core economy.

3 hour drive makes for a long ******* day. That is essentially Calgary to Edmonton and I am not sure how many Calgarians made the trek up to Edmonton to watch the Eddies play once, let alone regularly, but I am going to venture a guess and say very, very few.

Having lived in the Maritimes, it'd be a real shame if the CPL doesn't use the rivalries between the cities when planning, even though population probably dictates otherwise. But with Sydney starting a 'tech renaissance' of sorts and hopefully kick-starting a revitalization of Cape Breton, I'd love to see the Cape Breton (real) Highlanders vs. Halifax Explosion a few years down the line after CPL kicks off.

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