Alphonso Davies

[1996]

Of course we will, due to the fact that over the years we have lost some real good players talent wise to other countries. Could you imagine ,and I'm sure this has been brought up many times before , if guys like Jonathan DeGuzman, Heargreaves, Begovic and a few of the other guys names escape me now would have committed to Canada there would have been a really good chance we would have at least made one or two final 6 WC qualifying tournaments . The excitement and press that would have generated here in Canada for our men's national team, moreover , how much far ahead the program might be today. Until we have a lot more talent, we will always have this worry with players in Canada, or until we start succeeding in spite of talented players not choosing Canada we will have this worry . With our failures to advance in WC qualifying over all these past years, it has made a lot of people wonder about would we have done better if these players had chose Canada , if we would have succeeded over these past years even without these guys who snubbed Canada then a lot of us would not have worried so much because we would have still done well without them, but we have not done well and so people we always worry now when a good player who has the option to play with another country comes around. Let me also say I understand that it's not only about having all players commit, there are also other factors that go into being successful, however, if you have most of the horses on the team there it does help in a big way.

[Markus]

In the past it's kind of been a self-perpetuating problem whereby players didn't choose us because we weren't very good, and then without them, we weren't very good, so players didn't choose us and so on.

From their POVs, I can see why they made the decisions they did. Begovic got to play in a world cup as did DeGuzman. Hargreaves played Euro and World Cup IIRC. In hindsight, from their individual POVs it seems they all did the right thing for themselves. 

Of course, as we all bleed red, each time a player chooses another country, it hurts, but the rules are what they are and I don't blame any player for giving himself the best chance to play in a major competition. Maybe if they all chose Canada, it would have been different but I don't begrudge them their decisions. Still sucked though.

That's why it's been so nice lately to see players like Arfield, Hoilett, and especially now Davies, choose to represent Canada. That piece on him and his family was touching. To me, that's what Canada is about. Can't wait to see him in the red and white.

I really think this team is getting better and will have a good GC. Maybe players choosing us will have the opposite effect that players not choosing us used to have. If we can get deep into the GC, it might sway a player or two. Maybe it's just my Voyageurs' unshakeable optimism though, I find it hard to divest myself of that.

In the end, all we can do is get behind the guys who wanna be here. At least it seems there are a few more of those these days than there used to be. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Players going for glory over pride always makes me lose respect for them. Fuck De Guzman and Hargreaves.

[badname22]

what do you guys think of davies as a wingback 

[Obinna]

23 minutes ago, badname22 said:

what do you guys think of davies as a wingback 

That's a hard no for me. Simply too much attacking talent not to play him closer to goal. I think we'll see him as a striker before a wingback.

[matty]

16 hours ago, jpg75 said:

Yes. Especially if they're really good.

Man, this fanbase has like zero faith doesn't it?

[harrycoyster]

52 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That's a hard no for me. Simply too much attacking talent not to play him closer to goal. I think we'll see him as a striker before a wingback.

I can't think of a single reason to play him at there besides his workrate. Doesn't have the short passing, positioning, or defensive ability to be a great wingback. He's a true winger. 

[Grizzly]

2 minutes ago, matty said:

Man, this fanbase has like zero faith doesn't it?

Is that a surprise? What team have you been following for the last 30 years?

[matty]

Just now, Grizzly said:

Is that a surprise? What team have you been following for the last 30 years?

You'd think recent trends would curb it a fair bit

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, matty said:

You'd think recent trends would curb it a fair bit

there is always going to be uncertainty 

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, matty said:

You'd think recent trends would curb it a fair bit

Yeah, our performances so far in the hex pretty much speak for themself.

[C2SKI]

59 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

I can't think of a single reason to play him at there besides his workrate. Doesn't have the short passing, positioning, or defensive ability to be a great wingback. He's a true winger. 

Short passing certainly isn't the first attribute I look for in a wingback. For me, that quality is more important towards the middle of the pitch, or closer to goal. I agree Davies doesn't seem to possess the necessary positional awareness at the moment, but that's really not a surprise considering his young footballing history, and could be learned in time. I actually think he's a pretty decent one-o- one defender for a winger/forward. That being said, even though I think he has the attributes to play as a wingback, I have no desire to see him converted anytime soon. He should be playing closer to goal at this level, and at this stage in his career. If he jumps to a higher league, and finds his offence stagnating, than I can see him converting.

[harrycoyster]

1 hour ago, C2SKI said:

Short passing certainly isn't the first attribute I look for in a wingback. For me, that quality is more important towards the middle of the pitch, or closer to goal. I agree Davies doesn't seem to possess the necessary positional awareness at the moment, but that's really not a surprise considering his young footballing history, and could be learned in time. I actually think he's a pretty decent one-o- one defender for a winger/forward. That being said, even though I think he has the attributes to play as a wingback, I have no desire to see him converted anytime soon. He should be playing closer to goal at this level, and at this stage in his career. If he jumps to a higher league, and finds his offence stagnating, than I can see him converting.

Well, we agree that Davies shouldn't be playing wingback, but I'd disagree on the passing. As a wingback, you are a supporting midfielder when your team is on the ball. You need to have interplay with the central midfield. As a striker or winger, you are receiving the ball in an advanced position where short passing isn't vital; you are generally looking to cross or shoot. Some of the world's best attackers (Aubameyang and Callejon for example) can't really pass at a high level, but are still great because of their directness.

[toontownman]

Long term i think he will go more central, AM or CF. Let's hope we don't burn him out first either way. 

[matty]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, our performances so far in the hex pretty much speak for themself.

That seems to be a non-issue for many

[jpg75]

6 hours ago, matty said:

Man, this fanbase has like zero faith doesn't it?

We've lived through the defections, it scars you. You don't just get over having this many players turn their back on the program. Radz leaving the team in the 97 Hex, Hargreaves promising to play for us on national TV, Fernandes, Begovic and the bag of money, De Guzman, Lensky switching for Czech U21, Vitoria playing for Portugal in his hometown, Bunbury, Ferreira, Lavery...Cavallini being douchey, Aleman thinking twice, Aird playing for Scotland youth, Bustos being encouraged by VWFC to attend a Chile U20 camp...plus a few kids are playing their options these days. What should i have faith in? Any kid with better options will always think twice and his buddies on the team will have his back (DeRo congratulating Jono winning Bronze in 2014) even when he ditches us.

[matty]

7 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

We've lived through the defections, it scars you. You don't just get over having this many players turn their back on the program. Radz leaving the team in the 97 Hex, Hargreaves promising to play for us on national TV, Fernandes, Begovic and the bag of money, De Guzman, Lensky switching for Czech U21, Vitoria playing for Portugal in his hometown, Bunbury, Ferreira, Lavery...Cavallini being douchey, Aleman thinking twice, Aird playing for Scotland youth, Bustos being encouraged by VWFC to attend a Chile U20 camp...plus a few kids are playing their options these days. What should i have faith in? Any kid with better options will always think twice and his buddies on the team will have his back (DeRo congratulating Jono winning Bronze in 2014) even when he ditches us.

Yes we did and in the past 3 years we haven't lost anyone of note we've had our eye on. Sure there a few guys are sitting on a fence  (including Ferreira and maybe Lavery) but we've haven't 'lost' them have we.

I look at that list and I see some dicks we lost but they were lot five years ago and a lot has changed in that short period. Yes there are dick and douches who string us along but they come (like Cavallini). Canada doesn't seem to be a death sentence like the days of old and it's time this fanbase realized that.

The Floro-era on we've gained at the senior level and it's time we stopped panicking because some kid has a second passport. The CSA is changing, Canadian soccer is changing and recruitment is changing. We need to start believing shit can happen cause it is.

[harrycoyster]

47 minutes ago, matty said:

Yes we did and in the past 3 years we haven't lost anyone of note we've had our eye on.

Yup. We've taken far more players from other countries in the last 5 years than we have lost players to other countries. At least 4 of our best players (Arfield, Akindele, Johnson, Cordova) have lived a majority of their pre-18 life in another country.

Complaining about this is ludicrous. You don't get to have 100% of the players eligible to wear the shirt and quite honestly, I don't want any player who doesn't want us. EVERY country loses big players. I'm sure the US would have loved having Subotic and Rossi.

EDIT: Listed Cavallini on accident. 

[jpg75]

21 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Yup. We've taken far more players from other countries in the last 5 years than we have lost players to other countries. At least 5 of our best 18 players (Cavallini, Arfield, Akindele, Johnson, Cordova) have lived a majority of their pre-18 life in another country.

ummm, what?

[harrycoyster]

5 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

ummm, what?

Whoops. Was originally making a different point and forgot the delete him from the list of player. Disregard, but I maintain the argument. 

[jpg75]

38 minutes ago, matty said:

Yes we did and in the past 3 years we haven't lost anyone of note we've had our eye on. Sure there a few guys are sitting on a fence  (including Ferreira and maybe Lavery) but we've haven't 'lost' them have we.

I look at that list and I see some dicks we lost but they were lot five years ago and a lot has changed in that short period. Yes there are dick and douches who string us along but they come (like Cavallini). Canada doesn't seem to be a death sentence like the days of old and it's time this fanbase realized that.

The Floro-era on we've gained at the senior level and it's time we stopped panicking because some kid has a second passport. The CSA is changing, Canadian soccer is changing and recruitment is changing. We need to start believing shit can happen cause it is.

Yes, 3 years now...when a lot of us have been taking it on the chin for 20 years. That's a blip, a recent development, you don't just go "hey we got a few half decent players now - still didn't make the Hex though - but fuck it i won't worry about losing Tomori or RTP or Akinola or maybe Tabla because we've got Davies!" That kind of attitude is for losers, and i want to win. I want every possible player to play for us, i want them to work their asses off for the best coach we can get and go into every game thinking that a win is possible.

[matty]

Just now, jpg75 said:

Yes, 3 years now...when a lot of us have been taking it on the chin for 20 years. That's a blip, a recent development, you don't just go "hey we got a few half decent players now - still didn't make the Hex though - but fuck it i won't worry about losing Tomori or RTP or Akinola or maybe Tabla because we've got Davies!" That kind of attitude is for losers, and i want to win. I want every possible player to play for us, i want them to work their asses off for the best coach we can get and go into every game thinking that a win is possible.

I want to win too but I don't want to moan and lay face down on the floor crying because some one has a second passport (aka maximum loser attitude). You wanna whine about a time past era go ahead but I'm willing to be cautiously optimistic because the recent talent trends are going in Canada's favour and feel things at home (aka what the CSA is doing) are improving at a decent pace compared to the decades proceeding it.

[harrycoyster]

9 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Yes, 3 years now...when a lot of us have been taking it on the chin for 20 years. That's a blip, a recent development, you don't just go "hey we got a few half decent players now - still didn't make the Hex though - but fuck it i won't worry about losing Tomori or RTP or Akinola or maybe Tabla because we've got Davies!" That kind of attitude is for losers, and i want to win. I want every possible player to play for us, i want them to work their asses off for the best coach we can get and go into every game thinking that a win is possible.

As everybody does. But expecting every player to play for us is unrealistic and unfair to these kids. If Tabla wants to play for the Ivory Coast that's his right. Tomori probably doesn't even remember living in Canada, you should expect him to play for England. Akinola has made it clear that he wants to play for the US since he was 13. If any of those players end up choosing Canada, great! But I'm not going to act like the sky is falling if they don't. I'd rather watch a team that wants to be wearing the shirt. 

I'll tell you what kind of attitude is for losers: getting angry at kids for choosing the "wrong" country to represent. IT'S THEIR CAREER. If you want Canada to have a great soccer player you should have hit the pitch a little harder. Then the decision would be in your hands.

I'll never be upset at a player for choosing what he wants to do with his life.

[jpg75]

1 hour ago, matty said:

I want to win too but I don't want to moan and lay face down on the floor crying because some one has a second passport (aka maximum loser attitude). You wanna whine about a time past era go ahead but I'm willing to be cautiously optimistic because the recent talent trends are going in Canada's favour and feel things at home (aka what the CSA is doing) are improving at a decent pace compared to the decades proceeding it.

Nobody said anything about moaning, crying or whining. You asked if we're still paranoid about dual nationals and followed up with a statement about faith. I/we am/are paranoid because obviously a number of our youth are still exploring other options and any defections hurt the program. We are still a program ranked in the 80's (ELO) and most of the defections that hurt will be players capable of playing for countries better than us.

Do i have faith these players will choose us? Not much because based on past experience the really good ones will play for someone else. 

Now, does it keep me up at night? No. Does it piss me off when i think about it? Yes, and if you're a hardcore Canada fan it should.

[jpg75]

1 hour ago, harrycoyster said:

As everybody does. But expecting every player to play for us is unrealistic and unfair to these kids. If Tabla wants to play for the Ivory Coast that's his right. Tomori probably doesn't even remember living in Canada, you should expect him to play for England. Akinola has made it clear that he wants to play for the US since he was 13. If any of those players end up choosing Canada, great! But I'm not going to act like the sky is falling if they don't. I'd rather watch a team that wants to be wearing the shirt. 

I don't care if it is unrealistic, i want the best team possible so i'll hope/expect that we'll get every one we can. Now, i'm not going to get pissed at Tomori because he is English afterall, but i am disappointed in losing him. RTP and Akinola are 50/50 because they have solid links to both countries, but RTP played for us and then bailed and Akinola was with TFC so there should be expectations of both of them playing for us.