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The Unofficial "The Caps Hate Canada" thread

One American

By One American
in Men's National Teams

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RS Grand Master

RS

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As an aside, look down south at the best MLS teams right now. Sounders, LAG, DCU, SKC etc... How many home grown players and rookies are getting tons of playing time? Not many. Sure a few might make an impact, but the Yedlin's and Gil's are not too common. 

 

Those teams are filled with Americans, though. DC just had an all-American starting XI a couple of weeks ago, the first time in years that that has happened in MLS.

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Aird25 Grand Master

Aird25

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I hear this debate every year, and I'm not sure how much water it holds.  Last year I'm pretty sure the example used Davidson rather than Koffie and Laba.  Davidson is currently playing NASL.  I really do think soccer fans in Canada suffer from some sort of inferiority complex.

 

 

 

I hate to say it, but we're a nation ranked 118, with 3 teams playing in a top 10 league in the world. Canadian players need to improve. 

 

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El Hombre Grand Master

El Hombre

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I don't think that club teams are responsible for developing players for their country. It may be that it usually works out that way but until rules are in place that enforce it, that is just coincidence.

 

Club teams are committed to doing their best in whatever league they play in. They should field the team that best serves this purpose. If I were a Whitecaps fan I'd want them putting out the best possible team, not sacrificing points for trying to develop Canadian players.

 

I don't think that was ever in question.  Even the most ardent critic around here understands the business side of soccer.

 

However, on the flip side, who out there is advocating for the Canadian player and putting at least a little pressure on the powers that be?  No one.  To paraphrase (incorrectly) BHTC_Mike from another thread: Clearly, it's psychologically more comfortable for some people to believe that Canada can't develop serviceable MLS players than to accept that there might be roadblocks for Canadian players in the league.

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Obinna Grand Master

Obinna

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Those teams are filled with Americans, though. DC just had an all-American starting XI a couple of weeks ago, the first time in years that that has happened in MLS.

Oh for sure, that is absolutely true, but the vast majority of those Americans are established players. I am only focusing on the difficulty our young players are having at the moment.

 

My point was: MLS is improving fast, and our young players are having trouble finding playing time on MLS teams (except the crap ones) - but the same holds true for Americans also. Granted, a young American has far more options, so it's a non-issue for the USMNT. If our players were domestics, I believe it would become less of an issue for us as well. 

 

On that note, Conor Lade, who had a break through year in 2013 (or maybe 2012?), has been loaned to the Cosmos. I have never been particularly high on him, but he was called into the USMNT at some point. So, even American young players with seemingly bright futures can have trouble maintaining playing time. 

 

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/07/28/new-york-red-bulls-loan-connor-lade-nasls-new-york-cosmos

 

But again, the point is: We lack options. Right now, and American theoretically has 19 options. A Canadian has 3 realistic options and 16 unrealistic options.

 

The counter argument would be: If our players were good enough it wouldn't matter that they are internationals. The rebuttal to that is: If they were that good our they'd be starting for our clubs anyways.

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youllneverwalkalone Mentor

youllneverwalkalone

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I don't think that was ever in question.  Even the most ardent critic around here understands the business side of soccer.

 

However, on the flip side, who out there is advocating for the Canadian player and putting at least a little pressure on the powers that be?  No one.  To paraphrase (incorrectly) BHTC_Mike from another thread: Clearly, it's psychologically more comfortable for some people to believe that Canada can't develop serviceable MLS players than to accept that there might be roadblocks for Canadian players in the league.

I've emailed Bobby twice over the past 4 seasons. The first time was to complain about the club's apparent position on the Canadian quota; the second time was to complain about Marco Bustos. Frankly, he's an extremely classy guy. In 2012 he wrote me a long email back. On the Bustos matter, he actually called me. In summary, I do think Lenarduzzi is an advocate for Canadian players and, more importantly, Kerfoot and the other owners believe that producing Canadian players for the first team is a priority. I believe that I am in a vocal minority who don't mind dropping a few points to give the kids a chance to play. I believe the owners listen to these constituents. I do believe Carl Robinson was given the opportunity to drop points in favour of player development. Certainly many of those players are not Canadian, but the USL Pro club should provide an opportunity for the academy graduates to compete with the draft picks for 1st team playing time.

 

I've thought about giving up my first team tickets and buying USL Pro tickets instead as some sort of protest. I'm not sure this would accomplish anything and, to be honest, seeing Pedro Morales play each week is really entertaining. With the new CBA, there could be an opportunity to eventually see more and more players of this quality on each team. I still think there should be some sort of Canadian quota to make sure our domestic pool improves, and I certainly don't want guys like Morales contributing to situations like Bustos (I don't think he had anything to do with it, though Martyn Pert probably did). I think there's a balance between entertainment and ideology and it's not "only about business" or "only about results." Football is tribal and everyone wants their tribe to be represented. I think the owners understand this, and you will slowly see more players from the Whitecaps getting minutes in the first team. What's more important for Canada Soccer, is that more players play professionally and more of these players reach the CMNT level. I'm not sure I can fault the club in this regard and will try to negotiate two sets of season tickets next year (MLS & USL Pro) with my wife as a result.

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Grizzly Newbie

Grizzly

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 The problem is many of Lenarduzzi's public statements and the actions of his team don't really present him as an advocate for Canadian players. Maybe he presents himself differently in personal communications with season ticket holders but usually when similar questions are presented to him by the media his responses seem contemptuous towards Canadian soccer fans. The Caps trainers/management recommending Bustos accept a Chile call up are entirely in keeping with Lenarduzzi's defence of Hargreaves not playing for Canada and statement that he would have done the same thing (thanks for the loyalty former player and national team coach). Yes all the teams are developing players in their academies and eventually that will help the national team but they are doing this in their own best interest. There is nothing wrong with clubs doing things in their own best interest but I would certainly like the teams to at least recognize that there is both moral and business value in ensuring the Canadian national teams perform better. And the Impact and TFC could also do a better job in developing and playing Canadians but the Caps is the only team that seems to give off the attitude that they really don't give a shit about the Canadian national team or its fans and that is why they rightly have the "Caps hate Canada label".    

 

 

In summary, I do think Lenarduzzi is an advocate for Canadian players and, more importantly, Kerfoot and the other owners believe that producing Canadian players for the first team is a priority. 

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tmcmurph Newbie

tmcmurph

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Grizz, if the Caps truly "don't give a shit about the Canadian national team or its fans" then why have they done so much for Canadian soccer? You know the list as well as I do. It is very long and at all levels. 

 

They have been wrongly given the "Caps hate Canada label" by people who can't separate club and country and/or don't like honesty from the Duze. Maybe in that time with the CSA so messed up it was not an uncommon thought amongst players & coaches. Thank goodness the CSA has reforms in progress or we would still have that albatross around our necks.

 

9 out of 18 players for our U20 Milk Cup team came through the Caps system. The long term benefits of pro academies in our major population centres is starting to be shown. It will only get better from here. 

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Danny Boy Newbie

Danny Boy

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but the Caps is the only team that seems to give off the attitude that they really don't give a shit about the Canadian national team or its fans and that is why they rightly have the "Caps hate Canada label".

So it's 'seems' and 'attitude' now?

Good grief.

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football_world Enthusiast

football_world

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I think every Canadian team would want a Canadian superstar on their team ala Dempsey, Donovan, etc.  This sells more tickets and convinces more Canadian fans to come out to the match to watch their homegrown hero.  TFC tried to do this when they signed De Guzman but unfortunately, he turned out to be a flop for TFC.

 

However, MLS is still a business and winning comes first, especially for the coaches.  I don't doubt the coaches would play Canadian players if they were outperforming their international counterparts.  Unfortunately, at this point in time, our Canadians aren't able to outplay foreign based players.

 

You can see our MLS teams are setting up the infrastructure to develop home grown players such as the Whitecap's USL team.  All our MLS teams know it's better to develop homegrown talent rather than importing it from another country.  Look at Seattle Sounders - they scored big with DeAndre Yedlin and now, they will reap some nice $$$ from DeAndre Yedlin's sale to AS Roma.

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narduch Grand Master

narduch

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Basketball is a totally different sport.

 

Its silly to even compare it.

 

Had the Raports lobbied the NBA to create rules that discriminate against Canadian players than maybe I could see the parallel. But it makes no sense whatsoever.

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