Garber hints at change to 'Canadians as internationals' rule.

[Dub Narcotic]

Via reddit:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/2aotmp/possible_good_news_for_canadian_players_and_the/

 

In reality, this rule has not been that much of a hindrance for Canadian players as many U.S. teams don't use their full international allocations in any case, but with the league expanding the talent pool has to be widened.

 

And, of course, this heads off some of the motivation for NASL-CSA-Canada-1A which I'm sure is not a coincidence.

[forster01]

bout fucking time

[VWFC]

+1

[TFC07]

MLS is scared of Canadian league being a threat in terms of Canadian interest (TV and sponsors) and hurting their Canadian club attendance revenue (which MLS gets piece of).  

[ted]

And, of course, this heads off some of the motivation for NASL-CSA-Canada-1A which I'm sure is not a coincidence.

 

I don't see how they are related. Why would MLS be trying to "head off" an expanded second division? There is no way that MLS would ever come to most of the cities in the mix for the new league.

 

 

MLS is scared of Canadian league being a threat in terms of Canadian interest (TV and sponsors) and hurting their Canadian club attendance revenue (which MLS gets piece of).  

 

Uhm, have you not been paying attention? The new league will not be in MLS markets and will thus not compete for attendance. There may be some competition for sponsors but I would suggest that there is enough to go around. As for TV I think you are kidding yourself. If I am MLS I am not worried that Quebec v Regina is going to draw viewers away from Toronto Los Angeles.

[TFC07]

I don't see how they are related. Why would MLS be trying to "head off" an expanded second division? There is no way that MLS would ever come to most of the cities in the mix for the new league.

 

 

 

Uhm, have you not been paying attention? The new league will not be in MLS markets and will thus not compete for attendance. There may be some competition for sponsors but I would suggest that there is enough to go around. As for TV I think you are kidding yourself. If I am MLS I am not worried that Quebec v Regina is going to draw viewers away from Toronto Los Angeles.

 

Hamilton is close enough to Toronto to be consider in same market.  TFC has huge chunk of fans coming from west end including Hamilton.  Also, don't forget if there's another stadium built in GTA (there's interest out there), then don't be surprised to see "Toronto" team in Canadian NASL league.  Toronto/GTA is big enough market to support another soccer team. 

 

MLS doesn't even crack 100K in Canadian TV ratings for most of time, but if we got two Canadian markets playing against each other, ratings have possibly to be higher than MLS especially if one of major networks (like TSN) broadcast their games.  Given CFL ties to this Canadian league, there's possibly that we will see games on TSN.  

[tmcmurph]

Loved the comment from krusader42:

"It could be "Canadians now count as internationals in Canada too, to make things fair" so let's not get too excited too quickly."

 

Does krusader42 know Don or what?  

 

With 17 teams in the US even allowing the first 2 spots Canadians occupy to be counted as domestics would open 34 more opportunities.

[Keegan]

 

Uhm, have you not been paying attention? The new league will not be in MLS markets and will thus not compete for attendance. There may be some competition for sponsors but I would suggest that there is enough to go around. As for TV I think you are kidding yourself. If I am MLS I am not worried that Quebec v Regina is going to draw viewers away from Toronto Los Angeles.

 

Ted, if teams pop up around the MLS clubs it will hurt attendance, that's just common sense.  Toronto gets a ton of fans from outside of the GTA and risks losing them to Hamilton.  I'm sure the same could be said about Montreal with Quebec City. 

[BrennanFan]

I'll see this when I believe it.  

[Dub Narcotic]

CSL and L10 run fifteen or more teams in the GTA between them and they haven't hurt TFC, don't see that a Hamilton NASL team playing at not much higher of a level would do much either.

[Keegan]

I'll see this when I believe it.  

 

Believe then, we're counting on you. 

[TFC07]

CSL and L10 run fifteen or more teams in the GTA between them and they haven't hurt TFC, don't see that a Hamilton NASL team playing at not much higher of a level would do much either.

 

Comparing semi-pro (using this term loosely here) to professional club playing in top league?   

[finchster]

Comparing semi-pro (using this term loosely here) to professional club playing in top league

 

I wonder if the Buffalo Bills attendance is hurt by the Hamilton Tiger Cats, or if the Toronto Maple Leafs attendance is hurt by the Toronto Marlies?

 

Sports are sold as a product in North America, what casual fan will get excited to watch Frank Jonke play instead of Jermaine Defoe? MLS is top of the pyramid with star players. Canadian Div 1 will be a bunch of guys named who?

[baulderdash77]

The MLS does have a very real risk here.  The CFL is a big part of the sporting landscape in Canada, it's the 2nd most popular league both in ratings and attendance in Canada.  They have the business contacts to really play the patriotism card to sponsors in the new league.  Not to mention a potential TV contract with TSN that could legitimize and outdraw (viewers) the MLS in Canada.

 

Also one of the things being thrown around by organizers is that MLS is actually stunting Canadian soccer and it could be a contributing factor to Canada not making the next step to the World Cup.  Without a doubt if the league is a success the Canadian MLS teams will face at least some pressure to converting.  MLS doesn't want to have even a small bit of risk that 3 of it's 7 best franchises could move to another league.

 

Don't underestimate the business impact of Canadian patriotism.  It's a very marketable thing in sports and Canadian companies will line up to be part of something big and "Canadian". 

[Cheeta]

Whatever.

 

If there is a change it won't be voluntary.  Think this is going to be one of the times the CSA does whatever it is they do, quietly off-camera so to speak, begging, bribing or threatening to get some forward movement on this issue from MLS.

 

(Huh, wonder if all the attention the Foreign Worker program has been getting this summer is playing a part?)

 

For us of course anything is an improvement but unless its full reciprocity then its just going to be one more rule to complicate rosters.  How very MLS.

 

 

 

 

[TFC07]

 

I wonder if the Buffalo Bills attendance is hurt by the Hamilton Tiger Cats, or if the Toronto Maple Leafs attendance is hurt by the Toronto Marlies?

 

Sports are sold as a product in North America, what casual fan will get excited to watch Frank Jonke play instead of Jermaine Defoe? MLS is top of the pyramid with star players. Canadian Div 1 will be a bunch of guys named who?

 

What a dumb comparison.  

 

Toronto Marlies are Toronto Maple Leafs farm team.  If you were trying to make a comparison, then make some sense.  To use Toronto Marlies and Toronto Maple Leafs is like using Toronto FC and their academy team playing League One to make a point.   

 

Hamilton and Buffalo (who have to rely on Southern Ontario market to sell tickets) play different leagues with different rules. Let's not forget they're not even located in same country.  Not only that, but it's much easier to get to downtown Toronto (thanks to Go transit train) than travelling to Buffalo.  

 

If you know TFC fanbase, you would know that good amount of them come from west end (close to Hamilton territory and have sort connection with city and their football).  Now I am not saying all them will leave TFC to support a team closer to them, but TFC will have to complete with Ticats now to keep soccer fans in that part of GTA and Hamilton happy   So yes, TFC are affected to some certain extent to NASL team in Hamilton.   

 

FYI: Winning is what brings people to games the most which TFC is doing this season.  Defoe signing hasn't increase TV numbers at all!  

[jonovision]

 

I wonder if the Buffalo Bills attendance is hurt by the Hamilton Tiger Cats, or if the Toronto Maple Leafs attendance is hurt by the Toronto Marlies?

 

Sports are sold as a product in North America, what casual fan will get excited to watch Frank Jonke play instead of Jermaine Defoe? MLS is top of the pyramid with star players. Canadian Div 1 will be a bunch of guys named who?

 

If this was 2013, the comparison you would be making a lot of nights is Frank Jonke and Andrew Wiedeman. MLS has a half dozen standouts per team; the remaining players aren't that far beyond NASL level in talent or salary.

[finchster]

What a dumb comparison.  

 

Toronto Marlies are Toronto Maple Leafs farm team.  If you were trying to make a comparison, then make some sense.  To use Toronto Marlies and Toronto Maple Leafs is like using Toronto FC and their academy team playing League One to make a point.   

 

Hamilton and Buffalo (who have to rely on Southern Ontario market to sell tickets) play different leagues with different rules. Let's not forget they're not even located in same country.  Not only that, but it's much easier to get to downtown Toronto (thanks to Go transit train) than travelling to Buffalo.  

 

If you know TFC fanbase, you would know that good amount of them come from west end (close to Hamilton territory and have sort connection with city and their football).  Now I am not saying all them will leave TFC to support a team closer to them, but TFC will have to complete with Ticats now to keep soccer fans in that part of GTA and Hamilton happy   So yes, TFC are affected to some certain extent to NASL team in Hamilton.   

 

FYI: Winning is what brings people to games the most which TFC is doing this season.  Defoe signing hasn't increase TV numbers at all!  

 

If this was 2013, the comparison you would be making a lot of nights is Frank Jonke and Andrew Wiedeman. MLS has a half dozen standouts per team; the remaining players aren't that far beyond NASL level in talent or salary.

I agree with you, but what brings people out to circus? The clowns or the main event? 

 

MLS has started to garner the interest of the casual sports fan, something they needed to do to become relevant in the sports landscape. They did that with big names and money, something a Canadian league will not and probably never have.  

[football_world]

If this was 2013, the comparison you would be making a lot of nights is Frank Jonke and Andrew Wiedeman. MLS has a half dozen standouts per team; the remaining players aren't that far beyond NASL level in talent or salary.

 

The MLS salary cap is set for renegotiations next year.  With higher attendance and a new TV deal (US $90 million per year for the new deal vs US $18 million per year for the old deal), it's expected the salary cap will go up in the MLS next year.  Once the salary cap goes up next year, there will be a further gap between the MLS and NASL.  

[Dub Narcotic]

If this was 2013, the comparison you would be making a lot of nights is Frank Jonke and Andrew Wiedeman. MLS has a half dozen standouts per team; the remaining players aren't that far beyond NASL level in talent or salary.

 

I realize this is a core belief of many NASL fans, but I can't think of a single Edmonton or Ottawa player I would want on Vancouver's roster.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I'd take Bokai. Probably Edward as depth.

[Soccerpro]

I realize this is a core belief of many NASL fans, but I can't think of a single Edmonton or Ottawa player I would want on Vancouver's roster.

Hanson Boakai=Kekuta Manneh. No Canadian mls team would turn him down.

Laing or Edwards could be depth.

[narduch]

MLS is scared of Canadian league being a threat in terms of Canadian interest (TV and sponsors) and hurting their Canadian club attendance revenue (which MLS gets piece of).  

 

I agree with this.

 

I don't think the CSA has as great an impetus to help push this NASL/CFL proposal forward if the 3 Canadian MLS clubs were doing a better job. If anything they have themselves to blame for pushing for the bullshit quota of 3 players and not doing a better job of lobbying for fairness for Canadian players in MLS. Serves them right for being so arrogant.

 

And if the NASL Canadian Division ever does become a reality it will have an effect on the 3 MLS teams. Sure it may not hurt them in their home cities but it will hurt them as national brands and could hurt TV ratings as casuals from other cities gravitate to their home teams.

 

------------------

 

Oh, and on the direct topic of this thread. Its about fucking time. But I still won't believe it until I see it officially announced.

[narduch]

....

[Copes]

I'm an out of market TFC fan, and a fairly recent (past four years) fan to North American Soccer, and soccer in general really. I live in St. John's, Newfoundland. I fly once or twice a year to Toronto to attend a TFC game, I tune in as much as I can when MLS is on TV, I buy MLS Live to catch games, play MLS Fantasy, etc. I flew to the World Cup this year, I was wearing TFC jerseys or Canada Soccer Jerseys everywhere I went. I made a point of buying hats with Maple Leafs. As a proud Canadian, who would have much preferred to have a team in the World Cup, I was doing my best to represent my country. 

Now, let's say a Canadian Soccer League bursts onto the scene. Am I going to instantly stop following Toronto FC? Definitely not. My parents are in Toronto. This past year I convinced them to buy season tickets. They're recent converts, but they love it. MLS will still be a higher quality league. I don't not watch Prem because MLS is on TV. However, I do watch arguably more Premier League outside of MLS Season. I imagine the relationship would be the same. I would be more inclined to tune into a Canadian Soccer League game than any MLS game where TFC wasn't playing. I spent this past Saturday watching LA vs RSL on MLS Live. I don't have any real dedication to either team, but it seemed like a decent game and I was bored. If that had been a Canadian Soccer League game, especially if there were any up-and-coming national team players, I would have been all over that instead. With more time spent watching Canadian Soccer League, I might not need my MLS Live subscription, same way I don't watch any Premier League Games that aren't on television. Now imagine if the Canadian Soccer League were to expand into an Atlantic Canadian market. I'm not delusional enough to think St. John's would get a team any time soon, but even Halifax or Moncton... I would definitely support a team closer to home! I grew up outside of Halifax, I'd love to see a team there. Better believe next year when it was jersey purchasing time, my TFC Jersey may become a Halifax jersey. And that money I was going to spend to fly to Toronto and catch TFC? Well, Halifax is closer, and arguably cheaper. World Cup 2018? Seems to me that the more "patriotic" gear to wear would be my Canadian Soccer League jersey. 

I know I'm not the norm. I know Canadian Soccer would not overthrow MLS. I know that I would still follow MLS. I know casual fans might like the higher quality of MLS. But there ARE risks for MLS if the CSA can move towards getting a larger, more recognized League here. While MLS won't be reeling, and while MLS won't be losing their franchises, they are undoubtedly paying attention to what's happening, and I imagine will not be a fan of the proposal.