king1010 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Higher level? He's not even playing in a fully-professional league. I'm not saying that the tweet was evidence of an attitude problem. I'm asking if there was an attitude problem. It would be a lot more than frustration coming off (perhaps Osorio was frustrated about result or performance, not Floro). I've stormed out of BMO post-match not talking to anyone ... it in itself doesn't mean much. Huh? Costa Rica isn't a fully professional league? Thats news to me. 12 players from their national team come from the top 3 clubs. Those top 3 clubs made it the QFS of champions league. Its a strong league, stronger than USL. Playing against the like of those top 3 teams regualary (as aleman does) is a higher level than USL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfitz Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Huh? Costa Rica isn't a fully professional league? Thats news to me. If it is fully professional, the evidence is yet to be found. I've been hunting for it for years. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Archive_96#Costa_Rican_League and http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/fully-professional-leagues-in-central-america.2003225/ Now, a top team like Herediano is likely fully professional. But Aleman has a single appearance with them, and only appearances with Belén near the bottom of the table. There aren't any Belén players on the Costa Rican national squad. If you look at the national squad (for the Gold Cup) at least, the players are only from 3 Costa Rican sides; Saprissa, Herediano, and Alajuelense. I'd expect that they, and Cartaginés are all fully professional. But there's little evidence that the team that Aleman is playing on is; unlike USL. At best it's no better. I was hoping to see Aleman play, finally. My suspicion is though that we are not seeing him for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If it is fully professional, the evidence is yet to be found. I've been hunting for it for years. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Archive_96#Costa_Rican_League and http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/fully-professional-leagues-in-central-america.2003225/ Now, a top team like Herediano is likely fully professional. But Aleman has a single appearance with them, and only appearances with Belén near the bottom of the table. There aren't any Belén players on the Costa Rican national squad. If you look at the national squad (for the Gold Cup) at least, the players are only from 3 Costa Rican sides; Saprissa, Herediano, and Alajuelense. I'd expect that they, and Cartaginés are all fully professional. But there's little evidence that the team that Aleman is playing on is; unlike USL. But the teams he is playing against are some of the best in CONCACAF. Theres 12 teams in the league, 25% of the games he plays are against 3 of the best teams in CONCACAF, some better than MLS teams. Never mind USL teams. In a centreal American enverionment we have continued to struggle to play in. Also what evidence do you want to suggest that the league is more than semi pro? And to be frank. I dont care if the league is fully professional or not. I care about the quality of play in the league which is above that of USL. Players from central American clubs have gone on to qualify for the world cup playing in their "questionably professional" leagues. I have yet to see a team made up of a good chunk of USL players qualify for the world cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 In terms of senior player potential, I only see Bokai & James. Bokai has the turn of space and skill that he gets fouled in a manner and repeatedly that doesn't happen to other Canadian players junior or senior. After watching Canadian men's & women's matches regularly for a month now, there are some commonalities. Based on yesterday's match, the points that came up were that they think too slow which means our play is too deliberate. Lots of passing amongst the back line without purpose and then easily rattled when pressed which leads to a backpass to the gk who boots out of bounds or delivers a difficult to control pass to players whose first touch aren't that good. I wasn't impressed with Farmer's passing. The only time the tendency to backpass was of benefit was when JGL backpassed to Clarke in the box that Clarke muffed. We don't know how to make offensively minded throw-ins. Instead, we constantly turn it over after throw-ins because nobody is showing for the ball and don't have good enough ball skills in tight spaces. We play so timidly. Grant made a backpass on a free kick that almost led to Panama chance. Why? He didn't ask the ref to get the Panama player back 10. We also don't tackle hard, be pain in the asses and the forwards don't press effectively. The only time we scare other teams is when a defender like James or Henry comes in charging with a header off a corner kick. And uniquely to Bokai (and previously Hume), charge at the backline and unleash a wicked shot. It's great our defenders now don't aimlessly boot the ball up the field at the first sign of trouble. But yesterday, they were too casual at times such as Black passing to Baboubli (you're the defender for god sakes) in the box and Farmer back to somebody on the line. It was why we were hemmed for 20 mins in the first half. Our strikers rarely are in positions to shoot and when they do, they have no composure. The media has again failed us. There is Nigel Reed on location. Sportsnet has Eric Thomas and 2 different sets of studio hosts and analysts. Yet, we didn't know till the last minute that Buchanan & Lawrence won't play in the second match due to school. And no one has asked why Prince & Aleman haven't played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Great post red card. You are absolutely right in assessing our play across the Canadian teams. I like to think of the game from a defender's perspective and it would be a dream to play against Canada. We are so predictable/deliberate aside from a player or two on every team it seems. Boakai was amazing, that near miss would have been the best Canada goal I've ever seen. The backline passing is so pathetic. If you're going to move the ball across the backline it needs to be with speed, we move so slow until we're anticipated/closed down and then we need to have a hurried clearance and concede possession. The only time Canada is dangerous is when they win the ball in midfield and can dribble forward or hit a man/woman in space, they rarely if ever build an attack out of the back. Backpasses on FREE KICKS? It is a FREE kick, why would you concede space up the field by passing back which leads to an inevitable long ball anyhow? You may as well just play the long ball directly off the free kick and not risk a screw up on the back pass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfitz Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Also what evidence do you want to suggest that the league is more than semi pro? Verifiable written evidence. Generally a media report on the salary ranges in the league would cover it. Probably doesn't matter in many ways. In terms of Wikipedia (which is where I've been seeking it for), it relates to whether you delete articles for individual players or not. Given that Flores has put every other player except Aleman (and the backup keeper) on the pitch; I do have to think that there's an issue; unless he gets an appearance on Monday. What about Edwards? He's looked interesting to me in his brief appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCreamMan Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The Brazil Panama game is before ours so we will at least know what we need to go through. I still think we have a decent shot and hopefully Brazil doesn't take the foot of the gas too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennon Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 But there's little evidence that the team that Aleman is playing on is; unlike USL. At best it's no better. Belén is on the same level as the New York Cosmos. So definitely better than the USL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Belén is on the same level as the New York Cosmos. So definitely better than the USL. I don't know about that. Belén is essentially Herediano II, last year they had at least 5 Herediano players on loan and they played in the same stadium. Still though, it is a unique situation and Aleman showed he could compete against top teams in Costa Rica, he definitely needs to get a shot for Canada but Boakai has been really impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamR Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Hopefully Aleman Osorio and Teibert dont go Cavillani on us. Quite honestly if they do it probably says more about why they haven't been used as much as others as it does anything else. I truly hope that Cavallini's attitude is a one off. Personally, if I were trying to build a TEAM beyond single competitions I would stay far away from anyone with such a negative egocentric attitude. On the other hand, I would have no problem with players who show frustration in the heat of action but prepare and train with the necessary positivity. This is what I hope is the case for Aleman and Osorio and there is no sign at all of a problem with Teibert so including him in this discussion may just be a bit of stirring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfitz Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Belén is on the same level as the New York Cosmos. So definitely better than the USL. What's the basis for that? Aleman is the only player on their current roster who has ever been called up to a senior international squad, as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennon Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What's the basis for that? Aleman is the only player on their current roster who has ever been called up to a senior international squad, as far as I know. My rankings of every team in CONCACAF using a modified version of this method http://old.clubelo.com/ Well their squad only has 1 other foreigner and it's not surprising that no Costa Ricans are getting called up from a bottom/mid table side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironcub14 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I saw the game a little bit differently than a couple of the posters in this thread. I was highly encouraged by the slow but deliberate build-up play from the back from Canada yesterday, and for me, the key part of that build-up play was the passing from Farmer, Mannella and Fisk. I saw a number of occasions where Farmer passed the ball along the ground to the mids, most often to Mannella but also to JGL and Beland-Goyette, and in turn, the mids would combine quickly to find Fisk with his back to the goal, who would quickly lay off the ball with one touch to one of the midfielders coming up to support the attack, who finally would look for either Boakai or Babouli in dangerous spots in the opposition half. After seeing aimless long balls after long balls in the Gold Cup from Edgar and Jakovic, and in the U22 game vs. Brazil from James and Bouchard, and the simply crap passing from Henry for Canada and TFC over the years, watching Farmer spray those crisp short passes were such a breath of fresh air. The one-touch layoffs from Fisk were highly encouraging to see as well, that guy knows where to move on the pitch and where to find his teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 In terms of senior player potential, I only see Bokai & James. Bokai has the turn of space and skill that he gets fouled in a manner and repeatedly that doesn't happen to other Canadian players junior or senior. After watching Canadian men's & women's matches regularly for a month now, there are some commonalities. Based on yesterday's match, the points that came up were that they think too slow which means our play is too deliberate. Lots of passing amongst the back line without purpose and then easily rattled when pressed which leads to a backpass to the gk who boots out of bounds or delivers a difficult to control pass to players whose first touch aren't that good. I wasn't impressed with Farmer's passing. The only time the tendency to backpass was of benefit was when JGL backpassed to Clarke in the box that Clarke muffed. We don't know how to make offensively minded throw-ins. Instead, we constantly turn it over after throw-ins because nobody is showing for the ball and don't have good enough ball skills in tight spaces. We play so timidly. Grant made a backpass on a free kick that almost led to Panama chance. Why? He didn't ask the ref to get the Panama player back 10. We also don't tackle hard, be pain in the asses and the forwards don't press effectively. The only time we scare other teams is when a defender like James or Henry comes in charging with a header off a corner kick. And uniquely to Bokai (and previously Hume), charge at the backline and unleash a wicked shot. It's great our defenders now don't aimlessly boot the ball up the field at the first sign of trouble. But yesterday, they were too casual at times such as Black passing to Baboubli (you're the defender for god sakes) in the box and Farmer back to somebody on the line. It was why we were hemmed for 20 mins in the first half. Our strikers rarely are in positions to shoot and when they do, they have no composure. Precisely, great observations. One thing that bothers me to no end is that our players on 1 on 1 or 1 on 2, etc. try aimlessly to outwit the central americans with foot skills, when we know we don't measure up in that department. Is it a personal thing that we try to show we can dribble too or is it a total disregard for team play. For crying out loud, pass the ball before you get accosted by one or two opponents. I am not advocating for total long balls, but when we finally manage to get close to the attacking third, we stop instead of forging ahead with speed. This only results in giving time for the opponents to come back in numbers and close the door. More intelligent play by our lads is a necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Also agree with red card's observations. In addition, I was very frustrated watching our players lose the ball because of poor passing and an inability to control a basic pass. Too often it bounced off and got away from them. I don't know if it was the FieldTurf but it didn't seem to bother the Panamanians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelPat Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I was at the games last night in very good seats right near midfield and thought they played OK but a few things jumped out at us from that location. Too often the back line was hesitant and were too content to pass it backwards - often resulting in miscues in the end that resulted in pressure by Panama that ended up with us just clearing the ball out of touch for a Panama throw-in. There were a number of times that to me it looked like players were open or running towards an open area that the ball could have been laid into for somebody to run to it. But instead players were hesitant and that got us into trouble sometimes. What a difference when watching some of the Brazilians compared to the other teams. Sharper passing - to the right spot so a player was running into the ball. Way too often last night the passes were not crisp enough or were slightly behind a player - so they would have to almost completely stop their run to receive a ball and the forward momentum was lost. Sorry to bring hockey into this forum but the Brazilians reminded me of a good line in hockey that just seem to know where their line mate is going to be at all times and their passing is tic-tac-toe stick to stick with high speed rushes generating scoring chances. It seemed most of the times a Canadian player was receiving a pass they had to slow down or stop to receive it an then had to scan the field to figure out where to go with the ball next instead of instinctively knowing without hesitation where to go with it because they knew a teammate would be there. And then of course the odd time we did move the ball better and create the scoring opportunities the lack of finishing skills is a killer. This video I took last night typical of that problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmCu0JepFJI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grande Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I was at the game as well. Too much hesitation from the Canadians, I think. There's been lots of discussion on that though... I'll also add to the chorus of people that'd like to see names on the jerseys. As a fairly casual fan, I have no idea who most of these people are, and I feel like a jackass saying "Oh, number 16 is doing well, but eleven could be better" or whatever. There's no replays on the big screen in THF... That's annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramoor Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I can't agree with people like Red Card. Babouli showed great on the left, Boakai was of course fantastic on the right. Fisk was strong in the first half but kind of faded after that. Beland-Goyette had a poor game, Gagnon-Lapare showed great flashes but needs more consistency, could easily be a promising player in a few years for the main team. Anyone writing off Mannella is crazy at this point, easily has a chance to compete for that CDM spot in the years to come, he's a bit behind the curve but he's improving rapidly. James and Farmer as a duo were very solid minus the one time Farmer didn't step up. Black and Grant had poor games in my mind. Clarke was very poor, talk about being snakebit, he's had the chances in both games and not been able to finish. Aparicio and Edwards both provided well in their appearances. There were gaffes and some hesitation without a doubt but the chances were there, someone just has to step up and take them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCreamMan Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I'd like to see Aparicio start ahead of LBG next game, especially since we will likely need to win by a couple goals. Agree with sentiment that Black and Grant weren't great but don't think we have a better option on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1996 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 This Brazil team looks very impressive, apart from the three overage players they will add next summer I wonder how many of these players on Brazil we are seeing at these Pan Am games will be on their Olympic team next year in Brazil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 looking like a strong crowd tomorrow. over 15,000 tix sold. more than the 2nd game Canada played. hoping brazil takes care of business and beats panama giving us a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I ended up at my parents place about an hour and a half north east of Toronto. If anyone wants my ticket for the match tomorrow, I am pretty sure I can email you the ticket. Let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelPat Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 looking like a strong crowd tomorrow. over 15,000 tix sold. more than the 2nd game Canada played. hoping brazil takes care of business and beats panama giving us a chance Would be great to see a big and engaged crowd tomorrow. There is a really good crowd for tonight's Brazil - Canada's women's match. Looks to be about 20,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Would be great to see a big and engaged crowd tomorrow. There is a really good crowd for tonight's Brazil - Canada's women's match. Looks to be about 20,000 Ya! Great crowd for the women tonight. Both upper levels pretty full. Saw on twitter the crowd was about 20,000. And PRO canadian crowd. Hamilton really presenting itself well as a canadian soccer host city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm watching Bustos and Froese play for VW2 against Timbers 2. I don't how how to properly phrase it, other than these guys know how to play proper attacking soccer through the midfield in a way pretty much all of the players in our pan am team don't, aside from Hanson Boakai. I look forward to them making the jump to the senior national team someday soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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