Whitecaps FC changes for 2013

[narduch]

or they want too much money because they are aware of the quota system in play.

LOL.

The quota is so artificially low that it is essentially irrelevant.

Canadian soccer fans have every right to attack the Whitecaps. They are a disgrace.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

LOL.

The quota is so artificially low that it is essentially irrelevant.

Canadian soccer fans have every right to attack the Whitecaps. They are a disgrace.

Is it really disgraceful winning with 3 Canadians than losing with 10?

How cause we don't want to sign Canadians who aren't good enough or otherwise would just be glued to our bench?

The fact is we could go into the season with nearly the same amount of Canadian kids as TFC in the MLS. Teibert, Clarke, Alderson, with an outside chance Fisk and Thomas sign on. that's 5 to 6 (TFC). Plus we will win games.

I don't see the big fuss. What Canadians are out there that are good enough, cheap enough and available to play for the Whitecaps right now.

I'm guessing that number is very, very low.

So I will counter with it's super disgraceful for TFC being the "face of Canadian soccer" for the past 7 years. To just plain be disgraceful on and off the pitch, with a revolving door of players, coaches, management and fans.

Either way, Canadian MLS teams still have there work cut out for them, not just the 'Caps.

[El Hombre]

The fact is the current crop of Canadians just aren't good enough, or they want too much money because they are aware of the quota system in play.

I think Ante Jazic, Drew Beckie, Dejan Jakovic, Andre Hainault, Patrice Bernier, Will Johnson, Babayele Sodade, Terry Dunfield, and Ashtone Morgan are fairly decent examples that prove that you have no idea what you are talking about. Each of them seem to be good enough that teams are willing to take a chance on them and none of them are breaking their team's budgets with their outrageous salary demands.

Patrice Bernier is an exceptionally good example as he was toiling in the Danish league before he came over and performed very well for Montreal.

[madmonte]

No they are right in that those that are released recently and not signed just aren't good enough to be on the Whitecaps, given the level of improvement in MLS. Two ways to look at that. You can look at it both ways at once, nothing wrong with that.

1) Damn, our Canadian players aren't good enough to make that team, that really sucks, we were really hopeful they'd get on.

2) The level of the MLS is improving that guys like this are NOT good enough to make the Whitecaps, so the standards of that organization are high. Luckily, these same organizations, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, are setting up academies that are starting to look professional with equally high standards. I was talking in a diff thread about TFC actually putting the Academy Open Tryouts right on GolTV, and I found it a very interesting half hour, how hard they are trying to not let talent slip through the cracks. \

Their effort is there, and now the training is there, and it's going to be at a much higher standard. I believe in the academies of these times it's just going to take 5-15 years for the results, unfortunately.

But at THAT point, I'm hopeful you can have a WINNING team with 10 Canadians on it.

[Sam Brown]

I think Ante Jazic, Drew Beckie, Dejan Jakovic, Andre Hainault, Patrice Bernier, Will Johnson, Babayele Sodade, Terry Dunfield, and Ashtone Morgan are fairly decent examples that prove that you have no idea what you are talking about

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize all of those players are available and willing to be traded by their respective teams. I was also unaware that the players you've listed like Dunfield, and Sodade are SO good. It's weird because the first got traded from Vancouver, and the latter didn't play a single MLS game in 2012.

I also didn't realize that being picked 28th overall (Beckie) represented a player who was ready to step up and play in MLS from day one.

Can you let me know the last time players like Jazic, Bernier, Dunfield, and Morgan played for play-off level teams? I don't know what I'm talking about and clearly you do.

[Yohan]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize all of those players are available and willing to be traded by their respective teams. I was also unaware that the players you've listed like Dunfield, and Sodade are SO good. It's weird because the first got traded from Vancouver, and the latter didn't play a single MLS game in 2012.

I also didn't realize that being picked 28th overall (Beckie) represented a player who was ready to step up and play in MLS from day one.

Can you let me know the last time players like Jazic, Bernier, Dunfield, and Morgan played for play-off level teams? I don't know what I'm talking about and clearly you do.

In Sodade's defence, he was injured for most of last season. Also, Johnson reportely turned down a move to Vancouver.

And Rennie has a job security to worry about. Lose, and he gets fired. Honestly I think some of you don't care about a club winning, as long as Canadian players gets mins.

[smartlikefox]

In Sodade's defence, he was injured for most of last season. Also, Johnson reportely turned down a move to Vancouver.

And Rennie has a job security to worry about. Lose, and he gets fired. Honestly I think some of you don't care about a club winning, as long as Canadian players gets mins.

Prepare for the inevitable this is a Canadian supporters forum so what do you expect post?

Frankly, people way undervalue what a winning program could mean in the future for soccer in the area.

All people ever say is play more Canadians!.. But they never actually make any valid suggestions that the Caps could've played last year that would've actually improved the team.

[rob.notenboom]

Prepare for the inevitable this is a Canadian supporters forum so what do you expect post?

Frankly, people way undervalue what a winning program could mean in the future for soccer in the area.

All people ever say is play more Canadians!.. But they never actually make any valid suggestions that the Caps could've played last year that would've actually improved the team.

While I agree that winning MLS teams could do wonders for the game in Canada (and therefore can't be overlooked), Tiebert could have been given a chance on the left and that might have turned out to be an upgrade.

[maccaliam]

Prepare for the inevitable this is a Canadian supporters forum so what do you expect post?

Frankly, people way undervalue what a winning program could mean in the future for soccer in the area.

All people ever say is play more Canadians!.. But they never actually make any valid suggestions that the Caps could've played last year that would've actually improved the team.

Russell Teibert should have actually played last season, not because he's Canadian but bc he was good enough. Yes, he may get the opportunity this year, but that doesn't discount the fact that his lack of opportunities was an incorrect decision last season.

Plus, when the whitecaps signed their two distinctly-average Scottish DPs last season for such large salaries, you surely should have expected criticism bc I have no doubt VWFC could have signed a Canadian who would have helped the team for equal or less salary.

[Sam Brown]

Russell Teibert should have actually played last season, not because he's Canadian but bc he was good enough. Yes, he may get the opportunity this year, but that doesn't discount the fact that his lack of opportunities was an incorrect decision last season.

Oh, do you have your coaching badges?

[maccaliam]

Oh, do you have your coaching badges?

I do actually - from the Irish FA. You?

[finchster]

I think Ante Jazic, Drew Beckie, Dejan Jakovic, Andre Hainault, Patrice Bernier, Will Johnson, Babayele Sodade, Terry Dunfield, and Ashtone Morgan are fairly decent examples that prove that you have no idea what you are talking about. Each of them seem to be good enough that teams are willing to take a chance on them and none of them are breaking their team's budgets with their outrageous salary demands.

Patrice Bernier is an exceptionally good example as he was toiling in the Danish league before he came over and performed very well for Montreal.

But Bernier came back to play for his hometown club, that's a different situation. I remember when it was just TFC in MLS, Dejan Jakovic and Andre Hainault came back for trials in MLS and caught on. Basically at that point I said if MLS teams couldn't carry enough Canadians, the very least they could do is give Canadians who crap out of Europe a trial. I am sad Peters didn't catch on, but as some alluded to that might be mostly his fault. Anyway I want Vancouver to have more Canadians, but at the same time I don't want to see another Marco Reda play for the Whitecaps.

[smartlikefox]

Russell Teibert should have actually played last season, not because he's Canadian but bc he was good enough. Yes, he may get the opportunity this year, but that doesn't discount the fact that his lack of opportunities was an incorrect decision last season.

Plus, when the whitecaps signed their two distinctly-average Scottish DPs last season for such large salaries, you surely should have expected criticism bc I have no doubt VWFC could have signed a Canadian who would have helped the team for equal or less salary.

That's always the answer.. no names ever though. Toss some names out then. Frankly, there aren't a lot of high level Canadians who could've helped the Whitecaps, let alone ones who would've come to the MLS. It's the sad truth.

[maccaliam]

That's always the answer.. no names ever though. Toss some names out then. Frankly, there aren't a lot of high level Canadians who could've helped the Whitecaps, let alone ones who would've come to the MLS. It's the sad truth.

Just off the top of my head, wasn't Hume told not to return to PNE at one point? Simpson changed clubs on a free, didn't he? Ricketts too? What about inquiring about the availability of a nana attakora? Or, how about just playing some of the canadians they already have signed to their roster?

[Yohan]

Just off the top of my head, wasn't Hume told not to return to PNE at one point? Simpson changed clubs on a free, didn't he? Ricketts too? What about inquiring about the availability of a nana attakora? Or, how about just playing some of the canadians they already have signed to their roster?

do you know for sure whether the clubs did or did not inquire about those players when available? Most Europe based players are priced out of MLS range and likely getting paid more than DP price range in Europe.

I know Hume was linked to Canadian MLS clubs, (and publically said he was interested in MLS some time in his career) but chose Doncaster. Probably still thinks he can play in Europe and make better money

[maccaliam]

do you know for sure whether the clubs did or did not inquire about those players when available? Most Europe based players are priced out of MLS range and likely getting paid more than DP price range in Europe.

I know Hume was linked to Canadian MLS clubs, (and publically said he was interested in MLS some time in his career) but chose Doncaster. Probably still thinks he can play in Europe and make better money

No, I most definitely don't know for sure, I just threw those names out bc I was asked to give specifics and they immediately came to mind. I don't blame Vancouver for not signing any of the trialists they have had in, nor do I for not signing any particular Canadians abroad. I was more stating they should expect criticism when they overpay for second-rate players from second-rate leagues, and then the club/fans (not all of course, but some do) state they couldn't afford any Canadians who are good enough to actually improve Vancouver;s on-field product.

[El Hombre]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize all of those players are available and willing to be traded by their respective teams. I was also unaware that the players you've listed like Dunfield, and Sodade are SO good. It's weird because the first got traded from Vancouver, and the latter didn't play a single MLS game in 2012.

I also didn't realize that being picked 28th overall (Beckie) represented a player who was ready to step up and play in MLS from day one.

Can you let me know the last time players like Jazic, Bernier, Dunfield, and Morgan played for play-off level teams? I don't know what I'm talking about and clearly you do.

You completely missed the point (not surprising). Your contention is as follows: there are either not enough Canadians out there that are good enough to play in the MLS or if they are, they want too much money. The reason why I listed the names that I did is not because I want VWFC to go out and get them specifically, but because other teams seem to have found Canadians that they are willing to give a roster spot and some of them even give out international spots to them.

So, what exactly are you basing your assertion on that there aren't any Canadians that are good enough? The league they currently play in? Remember that Hainault came from the Czech league and Jakovic played a grand total of two games for Red Star. There are Canadians out there that can play in this league and won't hold the team hostage (plus that's a horrible bargaining tactic as every team already has fulfilled their mandated cancon obligation, so how could they actually use that in negotiations? In 2008 it worked, but not now). You just have to look a little and try a few on for size.

As for whether or not VWFC has enough Canadians on their team, that 's an argument for another day as I am not talking about that at all. I've argued that too many times that I've realized there's no point to it. What I am saying though is that your assertion that there are no Canadians out there that can play in MLS and that are deserving of a roster spot on a decent salary is plainly false, because other teams have found/are finding them. That's the point I'm making.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Just off the top of my head, wasn't Hume told not to return to PNE at one point? Simpson changed clubs on a free, didn't he? Ricketts too? What about inquiring about the availability of a nana attakora? Or, how about just playing some of the canadians they already have signed to their roster?

I believe Martin Rennie did make Hume an offer that was rejected. You have to remember we play in a salary cap league. As much as you can say Iain Hume will perform as well as Kenny Miller for less $$$, Hume would still command a DP salary. That's only 4,000-5,000 pounds per week, which would be fairly average for a good League One striker. If you sign Hume as a DP, imagine the pressure that would be on him? When he inevitably fails to live up to unrealistic expectations, Sam Brown will be the first of many chirping about how you need to sign the best player available regardless of nationality. Following the JDG debacle at TFC, I bet there are significantly more Reds supporters in this camp now. Even ones who would consider themselves Voyageurs.

It's a tough situation for both the returning player and the club. Bernier is probably the exception that proves the rule. He was ready to come home, happy with an MLS salary, and Montreal needed his experience as an expansion team.

So how many Berniers are out there?

[maccaliam]

I believe Martin Rennie did make Hume an offer that was rejected. You have to remember we play in a salary cap league. As much as you can say Iain Hume will perform as well as Kenny Miller for less $$$, Hume would still command a DP salary. That's only 4,000-5,000 pounds per week, which would be fairly average for a good League One striker. If you sign Hume as a DP, imagine the pressure that would be on him? When he inevitably fails to live up to unrealistic expectations, Sam Brown will be the first of many chirping about how you need to sign the best player available regardless of nationality. Following the JDG debacle at TFC, I bet there are significantly more Reds supporters in this camp now. Even ones who would consider themselves Voyageurs.

It's a tough situation for both the returning player and the club. Bernier is probably the exception that proves the rule. He was ready to come home, happy with an MLS salary, and Montreal needed his experience as an expansion team.

So how many Berniers are out there?

Fair enough if he did make Hume an offer - I most certainly wasn't aware of that. Plus, the pressure aspect is probably true and likely a deterrent for some after JDG's experience with TFC.

To be honest, I'm not overly bothered with VWFC for many of their signings or lack there of, I'm more annoyed at the lack of playing time for the Canucks who are already on board. Last season will hopefully prove to be a one off, and hopefully going forward players like RT will get an opportunity to prove whether or not they can hold their own. Players coming back from overseas to the MLS is fine, but what I really want to see is our domestically based Canadians developing and actually being given the opportunity to succeed (or fail if that is what their level ends up being), but they have to actually get on the pitch for that to happen.

[Macksam]

You don't understand the "constant blabbering" about wanting Canadian talent?

What is the point of a MLS team in Canada if it doesn't have Canadian players? Have you forgotten you are on a Canadian soccer website?

I wouldn't bother. I'm actually surprised he returned to the forum after how stupid I made him look in the "Beckham to recruit Gerrard to MLS " thread.

He's exhibiting behaviour that's consistent with a key board warrior who recently got his feelings hurt. I'm afraid he'll now lash out at everyone with perfect grammer and perfect punctuality.

[nolando]

He's exhibiting behaviour that's consistent with a key board warrior who recently got his feelings hurt. I'm afraid he'll now lash out at everyone with perfect grammer and perfect punctuality.

Errr...it's g-r-a-m-m-a-r :>

[Sam Brown]

I wouldn't bother. I'm actually surprised he returned to the forum after how stupid I made him look in the "Beckham to recruit Gerrard to MLS " thread.

He's exhibiting behaviour that's consistent with a key board warrior who recently got his feelings hurt. I'm afraid he'll now lash out at everyone with perfect grammer and perfect punctuality.

Exactly how did you make me look stupid? Was it when you suggested that Ibrahimovic would make a better DP that Gerrard? Yeah, that was flawless argument wasn't it?

As for El Hombre's remarks I would say that I was being specific to Vancouver. Sure, maybe these players can cut it onto TFC's or Chivas USA's roster, but not Vancouver's.

[Obinna]

As for El Hombre's remarks I would say that I was being specific to Vancouver. Sure, maybe these players can cut it onto TFC's or Chivas USA's roster, but not Vancouver's.

[El Hombre]

Not sure if there's a running list of the changes to the roster somewhere here, but Nanchoff is now with the Timbers.

Does anyone have a summary as to how many spots are open on the roster and what type they are?

[smartlikefox]

Not sure if there's a running list of the changes to the roster somewhere here, but Nanchoff is now with the Timbers.

Does anyone have a summary as to how many spots are open on the roster and what type they are?

May or may not have errors but...

As it stands:

Goalie:

Brad Knighton

Joe Cannon

Defenders:

Jay Demerit

Jordan Harvey

Greg Klazura

Andy O'Brien

Brad Rusin

YP Lee

Alain Rochat

Carlyle Mitchell

Mids

Bryce Alderson

JM Davidson

Daigo Kobayashi

Gershon Koffie

Russell Teibert

Matt Watson

Attackers/Mids

Erik Hurtado

Kekuta Manneh

Darren Mattocks

Paulo Jr.

Kenny Miller

Omar Salgado

Camillo

Tom Heinemann

Corey Hertzog

Caleb Clarke

So 26 contracts already signed up means the roster is already pretty full but of course that can change quickly. Thomas is likely to sign as the 3rd keeper and still have some other guys on trial like James and Fisk. I'd like to see Fisk signed and have him loaned out with some of the other youngsters. Dever Orgill (an ex residency) has also looked decent on a trial.