Vancouver Whitecaps - 2023 Season Thread

[Watchmen]

6 hours ago, narduch said:

Didn't they just extend him?

No, not since the initial extension 2 years ago.  He's on the last year of his deal, and they very wisely haven't extended him yet.  We'll see if they make the playoffs, and if they do what happens then.

[The Beaver 2.0]

On 8/22/2023 at 7:11 AM, SpursFlu said:

They need to ditch Vanni. He's not a winner. You can tell he's satisfied with being mediocre and being silly. This market needs a coach who values winning and doesn't accept losing so easily 

Maybe they need to ditch him, but not because he's satisfied with being mediocre and silly, or because he accepts losing too easily. I doubt any of those things are remotely true of Vanni, despite what he might convey to the media.  I suspect he's in over his head at this level, to be frank. That is sufficient reason to move him out.

[Watchmen]

18 minutes ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Maybe they need to ditch him, but not because he's satisfied with being mediocre and silly, or because he accepts losing too easily. I doubt any of those things are remotely true of Vanni, despite what he might convey to the media.  I suspect he's in over his head at this level, to be frank. That is sufficient reason to move him out.

Yup. Accusing him of being satisfied with being mediocre is ridiculous. (Ownership on the other hand...). He's just tactically naive and poor at in game adjustments. 

And sadly, with two Voyageurs Cups he's actually brought home the most silverware of any Whitecaps manager. Which i just tend to think has more to do with the quality of job Schuster has done than with Vanni.

[The Beaver 2.0]

24 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Yup. Accusing him of being satisfied with being mediocre is ridiculous. (Ownership on the other hand...). He's just tactically naive and poor at in game adjustments. 

And sadly, with two Voyageurs Cups he's actually brought home the most silverware of any Whitecaps manager. Which i just tend to think has more to do with the quality of job Schuster has done than with Vanni.

Yeah, Schuster seems the real deal. Vanni seems like a loveable guy and he's probably mostly good to the guys, but he seems an amateur in a professional role. At least from what I see.

[SpursFlu]

53 minutes ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Maybe they need to ditch him, but not because he's satisfied with being mediocre and silly, or because he accepts losing too easily. I doubt any of those things are remotely true of Vanni, despite what he might convey to the media.  I suspect he's in over his head at this level, to be frank. That is sufficient reason to move him out.

I think culture is important and in my opinion he brings a silly culture to the club. The Caps need someone with more of an edge. I don't see Vanni holding people accountable because he's typically filled with excuses and seems a little unfocused on the sidelines. Like he's thinking of his next party trick instead of analyzing his players. He's never been a coach lets not forget. He never seems upset with a loss. He seems upset at the refs but it all rolls of his back a little too easy

He seems like a pleasant guy, he just doesn't strike me as a football coach

Edited August 23, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Watchmen]

3 minutes ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Yeah, Schuster seems the real deal. Vanni seems like a loveable guy and he's probably mostly good to the guys, but he seems an amateur in a professional role. At least from what I see.

Vanni is loved by casuals (fans and media) but anyone who follows the team more closely understand his limits.

I'll always be appreciative of his winning back to back Voyageurs Cups (trippled our total!) but I think the club can do better.

[SpursFlu]

Schuster is definitely the real deal

[The Beaver 2.0]

5 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I think culture is important and in my opinion he brings a silly culture to the club. The Caps need someone with more of an edge. I don't see Vanni holding people accountable because he's typically filled with excuses and seems a little unfocused on the sidelines. Like he's thinking of his next party trick instead of analyzing his players. He's never been a coach lets not forget. He never seems upset with a loss. He seems upset at the refs but it all rolls of his back a little too easy

He seems like a pleasant guy, he just doesn't strike me as a football coach

Fair enough. I get what you mean.

[Footyeh]

10 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Yup. Accusing him of being satisfied with being mediocre is ridiculous. (Ownership on the other hand...). He's just tactically naive and poor at in game adjustments. 

And sadly, with two Voyageurs Cups he's actually brought home the most silverware of any Whitecaps manager. Which i just tend to think has more to do with the quality of job Schuster has done than with Vanni.

How difficult is it really to win the Voyageurs lol?  TFC and CFMTL are hardly the teams they were in years past.  

Schuster has definitely brought in some decent players.  The team may or may not end up in a higher position than years past and he's been here for 3 years.  Performance wise, there's been some very good ones but has the team really evolved into anything better?

[Watchmen]

9 hours ago, Footyeh said:

How difficult is it really to win the Voyageurs lol?  TFC and CFMTL are hardly the teams they were in years past.  

Anyone who's watched the Whitecaps blow it in an infinite number of ways knows that the answer to this is "very hard".

9 hours ago, Footyeh said:

Schuster has definitely brought in some decent players.  The team may or may not end up in a higher position than years past and he's been here for 3 years.  Performance wise, there's been some very good ones but has the team really evolved into anything better?

Yes. They're a much more entertaining team this year than they have been for about the last 5 or 6. Every play now isn't "lump the  all forward and hope someone runs on to it" and the game plan doesn't involve them having 35-40% possession while hoping the other team makes a mistake. 

Which isn't to say they aren't without their flaws. Their strikers struggle to convert all their chances and there's far too many lapses in concentration on defense. And that's before you get in to Vanni and his poor in game management or the teams horrific away record.

Still, this team is much more entertaining and fun to watch than it was, and I count that as an evolution.

[Stoppage Time]

10 hours ago, Footyeh said:

How difficult is it really to win the Voyageurs lol?  TFC and CFMTL are hardly the teams they were in years past.  

Schuster has definitely brought in some decent players.  The team may or may not end up in a higher position than years past and he's been here for 3 years.  Performance wise, there's been some very good ones but has the team really evolved into anything better?

Is team underperformance this season on Schuster or on Vanni? I would suggest it is the latter. The pantry is fairly full, but the chef's dishes are not the most tasty.

[BearcatSA]

10 hours ago, Footyeh said:

Schuster has definitely brought in some decent players.

Cubas and Gauld have been excellent signings while Gressel was an excellent in-league acquistion during his spell.  Those guys alone probably trump the shortcomings of some of his other bigger money acquistions and contract extension re-negotiations (Martins and his pricey and lengthy extension really stands out).

[Stoppage Time]

3 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Cubas and Gauld have been excellent signings while Gressel was an excellent in-league acquistion during his spell.  Those guys alone probably trump the shortcomings of some of his other bigger money acquistions and contract extension re-negotiations (Martins and his pricey and lengthy extension really stands out).

The jury is still out on Codorba.

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Cubas and Gauld have been excellent signings while Gressel was an excellent in-league acquistion during his spell.  Those guys alone probably trump the shortcomings of some of his other bigger money acquistions and contract extension re-negotiations (Martins and his pricey and lengthy extension really stands out).

He's not at their level, but I think Vite is trending in the right direction.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

He's not at their level, but I think Vite is trending in the right direction.

Vite is a very good supporting cast player type but Cubas and Gauld are bell cows.  Cordova still hasn't shown enough improvement to be a DP signing.  For the positives in Schöpf's game, I still don't see him as a really good higher TAM signing.  The keeper and back line benefit from the great work of Cubas in front of them:  Takaoka has been good in many areas but he hasn't had to face the duck shooting gallery like the keepers before him.

 

[Watchmen]

37 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Vite is a very good supporting cast player type but Cubas and Gauld are bell cows.  Cordova still hasn't shown enough improvement to be a DP signing.  For the positives in Schöpf's game, I still don't see him as a really good higher TAM signing.  The keeper and back line benefit from the great work of Cubas in front of them:  Takaoka has been good in many areas but he hasn't had to face the duck shooting gallery like the keepers before him.

 

I think some of the contracts are a reflection of how bad they were for so long. That to convince players to come, there was a bit of an overpayment. That's especially the case with someone like Schopf and Laborda, where there was no transfer fee either.

Takaoka is hard to rank. He's not as good as Crepeau. I think he's an upgrade on Hasal and Cropper, but Vanni also changed formations so it's not quite a perfect comparison and he's definitely given up a few he'd probably want back. Still, I'd be fine going in to next season with him as the starter and spending freed capspace (cough Teibert cough) to upgrade other aspects of the roster.

[BearcatSA]

24 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I think some of the contracts are a reflection of how bad they were for so long. That to convince players to come, there was a bit of an overpayment. That's especially the case with someone like Schopf and Laborda, where there was no transfer fee either.

The first contract guys aren't as big an issue as the lesser types who turn one good season (or month, in Martins's case), into a pricier but more significantly lengthier re-up.  

That's what the analytics guys are for, right?  The moneyball actuarians who do the crystal ball with the future numbers on such players down the road.

Perhaps I am being overly harsh here with the likes of Martins and the Dirk Kuyt of MLS, Brian White, and you can't hit a home run each time, for sure, but it is something that is noticeable and I believebthat they are thinking about it for the future.  Is Veselinovic next in line for a re-up?  If so, let's see how that looks.

[Watchmen]

Just now, BearcatSA said:

The first contract guys aren't as big an issue as the lesser types who turn one good season (or month, in Martins's case), into a pricier but more significantly lengthier re-up.  

That's what the analytics guys are for, right?  The moneyball actuarians who do the crystal ball with the future numbers on such players down the road.

Perhaps I am being overly harsh here with the likes of Martins and the Dirk Kuyt of MLS, Brian White, and you can't hit a home run each time, for sure, but it is something that is noticeable and I believebthat they are thinking about it for the future.  Is Veselinovic next in line for a re-up?  If so, let's see how that looks.

Well, they parted ways with their key moneyball guy earlier this year.  So we'll see how things go moving forward.

Veselinovic signed his extension already, about 3 weeks ago.  We don't know the numbers yet.

[SthMelbRed]

9 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

The first contract guys aren't as big an issue as the lesser types who turn one good season (or month, in Martins's case), into a pricier but more significantly lengthier re-up.  

That's what the analytics guys are for, right?  The moneyball actuarians who do the crystal ball with the future numbers on such players down the road.

Perhaps I am being overly harsh here with the likes of Martins and the Dirk Kuyt of MLS, Brian White, and you can't hit a home run each time, for sure, but it is something that is noticeable and I believebthat they are thinking about it for the future.  Is Veselinovic next in line for a re-up?  If so, let's see how that looks.

Dirk Kuyt was a fantastic player.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

Dirk Kuyt was a fantastic player.

I realize that was a rash and poor example.  I was trying to think of a hard working striker who didn't away as many chances.  Kuyt did score some big goals for Liverpool.

[Footyeh]

Apparently they are giving Javain Brown a new contract... which is odd because they have him one I thought a year or two ago.

[BearcatSA]

9 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

Apparently they are giving Javain Brown a new contract... which is odd because they have him one I thought a year or two ago.

You could probably fob him off elsewhere in MLS for GAM if his contract is right.  

I don't think they can unload a guy like Martins as easily on his current deal.

[Watchmen]

That's a bit of turn, since the rumour was they were looking to sell him and he's dropped down the pecking order on defense. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Watchmen]

Big road win last night.  Gauld continuing to play well and drive the team.  Ahmed looking good going forward.   Laryea played well and drew the penalty.

Bonus that this game puts the Caps in a good spot to win the Cascadia Cup for the first time since 2016.