CONCACAF U17 qualifying: Guatemala Feb 2023 ( + preparation & news )

[SpursFlu]

Am I the only one who doesn't think Canada and US have a problem with soccer anymore?

I think the biggest problem is there are other countries in the world who also want to win

[hodgkiss]

I think sechat is the father of Marcelo Flores and he is pissed that Marcelo didn’t make the WC squad for Mexico… and so he is now spending his time on this forum - crapping on Canada to make himself feel better… 

Anyone know if the U17 tournament will be on one soccer/fubo?

[Sechat23]

3 hours ago, RichV said:

so, if they are not pay to play, how will they be funded? 

 

They can still find people in schools. By pay-to-play, I mean soccer cleats, uniforms, etc… I know many schools that put 90% of their money into their American football program and they are still trash. While their soccer team is not the best, it is better than their American football team and gets the minimum amount of money. Make it where you must pay $50 only as an example, and everything will be included.

Do you know what I mean?

Edited January 26, 2023 by Sechat23

[Sechat23]

3 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Am I the only one who doesn't think Canada and US have a problem with soccer anymore?

I think the biggest problem is there are other countries in the world who also want to win

The issue is still there. Like taking someone who is more physical and tall over someone who is smaller and not as physical. It should be technical over physical. Pay to play.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Sechat23

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, Sechat23 said:

The issue is still there. Like taking someone who is more physical and tall over someone who is smaller and not as physical. It should be technical over physical. Pay to play.

That's a problem in France as well. The physical over technical thing

The pay to play is on its way to being corrected with a profit motive being introduced in to soccer here

Whatever we're up to, it seems Haiti is benefiting greatly 

[Sechat23]

8 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

That's a problem in France as well. The physical over technical thing

The pay to play is on its way to being corrected with a profit motive being introduced in to soccer here

Whatever we're up to, it seems Haiti is benefiting greatly 

Yes, but Franch also have some of the best technical players. If we can be a Franch then I take it.

Yes, pay-to-play is getting better and better each year but it's still not there yet. Until the lower class, people can get to play soccer then maybe we could see a big change. Most of the best players have come from the lower class.

[Stoppage Time]

6 hours ago, RichV said:

so, if they are not pay to play, how will they be funded? 

 

A sponsor for providing soccer grants to young players eligible by talent and to those who cannot otherwise pay to play even when they are very talented players who need to play at a higher level would be a help and a bit of very good fortune at the sane time. Pay to play works only for those who can afford to pay. If that derails and excludes a talented and deserving youngster, that is a huge shame.

[SpursFlu]

2 hours ago, Sechat23 said:

Yes, but Franch also have some of the best technical players. If we can be a Franch then I take it.

Yes, pay-to-play is getting better and better each year but it's still not there yet. Until the lower class, people can get to play soccer then maybe we could see a big change. Most of the best players have come from the lower class.

Yes we need to penetrate the inner city ghettos and all those kids bare foot in the Appalachians. Maybe a few scouts talking to the Southies running around the docks getting in to trouble. If they don't take up football they'll end up at taking to the bottle just like their old man

Edited January 27, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Sechat23]

9 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Yes we need to penetrate the inner city ghettos and all those kids bare foot in the Appalachians. Maybe a few scouts talking to the Southies running around the docks getting in to trouble. If they don't take up football they'll end up at taking to the bottle just like their old man

 

9 hours ago, Stoppage Time said:

A sponsor for providing soccer grants to young players eligible by talent and to those who cannot otherwise pay to play even when they are very talented players who need to play at a higher level would be a help and a bit of very good fortune at the sane time. Pay to play works only for those who can afford to pay. If that derails and excludes a talented and deserving youngster, that is a huge shame.

In my eyes, the issue is not that we can't find talent now. The issue is getting the lower class a soccer ball. 

There are many ways to make pay-to-play not be an issue anymore. Sponsorship is one way. Most academies once they find their players everything is free.

[Dominic94]

There’s really no reason why a soccer teams fees should be 1000$ in a big city in Canada. Unless they’re a private team.

[jordan]

29 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

There’s really no reason why a soccer teams fees should be 1000$ in a big city in Canada. Unless they’re a private team.

One of the big clubs in Ottawa was 300 upfront then 150/m after for 9 months. Could cost more as the age goes up(not really sure)but this was for a U8 player. I assume the other 2-3 big clubs in ottawa would charge similar prices.

[narduch]

46 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

There’s really no reason why a soccer teams fees should be 1000$ in a big city in Canada. Unless they’re a private team.

$300 for U6 in Woodbridge

[Dominic94]

1 hour ago, jordan said:

One of the big clubs in Ottawa was 300 upfront then 150/m after for 9 months. Could cost more as the age goes up(not really sure)but this was for a U8 player. I assume the other 2-3 big clubs in ottawa would charge similar prices.

It’s all for profit, it’s usually these half ass hacks charging to pay their bills.

[maccaliam]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

$300 for U6 in Woodbridge

I’ve just paid $325 for the full year for my son at u9. We have done some fundraising to lower costs though. 

[narduch]

Just now, maccaliam said:

I’ve just paid $325 for the full year for my son at u9. We have done some fundraising to lower costs though. 

They get a uniform, bag + ball and an end of year celebration (bbq + jumpy castles).

There are no refs to pay and the coaches are all kids in their teens.

I assume the field rental is cheap as its at the Ontario Soccer Centre

[Sechat23]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

They get a uniform, bag + ball and an end of year celebration (bbq + jumpy castles).

There are no refs to pay and the coaches are all kids in their teens.

I assume the field rental is cheap as its at the Ontario Soccer Centre

All academies should start to do this. New York Red Bull will now start to do a free U11-age academic program. Now they going to have a program that goes from U11 to U17.

They should go down to U5 but don't teach them how to play, let them have fun and love the game.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Sechat23

[RichV]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

They get a uniform, bag + ball and an end of year celebration (bbq + jumpy castles).

There are no refs to pay and the coaches are all kids in their teens.

I assume the field rental is cheap as its at the Ontario Soccer Centre

- a portion of the fee goes to the provincial association and the CSA (most likely includes insurance coverage).

- a portion goes to cover the registrar fees (admin salary, license for software, computer, office space, internet connection, banking fees, etc.)

- a portion will cover the technical director salary and expenses (the TD is probably feeding those Teen coaches an activity plan).

- a portion goes to advertising the program.

My point is that these programs, when done right, are not the money maker you might think. Our club runs a deficit every year, we need fund raisers to break even. We are a not-for-profit organization and we have never turned a player away because they can't afford the fees (although, I would argue that is because people without money don't even enquire about playing, but that is a different discussion).

Without pay-to-play, the system would not exist. 

 

[InglewoodJack]

5 hours ago, narduch said:

$300 for U6 in Woodbridge

$45 + cleats for U6 back when I played in the late 90s. No clue how parents do it anymore.

[El Diego]

My girlfriend's cousin had to pay four figures to play high school volleyball. I cannot wrap my head around that one.

[narduch]

27 minutes ago, RichV said:

- a portion of the fee goes to the provincial association and the CSA (most likely includes insurance coverage).

- a portion goes to cover the registrar fees (admin salary, license for software, computer, office space, internet connection, banking fees, etc.)

- a portion will cover the technical director salary and expenses (the TD is probably feeding those Teen coaches an activity plan).

- a portion goes to advertising the program.

My point is that these programs, when done right, are not the money maker you might think. Our club runs a deficit every year, we need fund raisers to break even. We are a not-for-profit organization and we have never turned a player away because they can't afford the fees (although, I would argue that is because people without money don't even enquire about playing, but that is a different discussion).

Without pay-to-play, the system would not exist. 

 

I'm not saying they are huge money makers but $300 for once per week is excessive. 

[RichV]

well, then it appears there is a business opportunity for someone to come in and offer programs at the $250 price point. Any takers?

[SpursFlu]

Out of all the activities for young kids I actually find soccer the best value. I'm not sure about travel and competitive but for 5 6 7 8 it's pretty reasonable 

[red card]

2 hours ago, RichV said:

 

Without pay-to-play, the system would not exist. 

 

it does outside of North America. 

FIFA just released the 2022 transfer report which helps to fund academies elsewhere. Transfer revenues for men totalled US$6.5B which is still below pre-covid levels. 70% of transfers with a fee were less than US$1 million. 50% were below US$300k.

Close to 60% of transfers with fees also had additional revenue potential with a sell-on fee. There was also US$73 million paid in solidarity payments in 2022 to youth clubs who had former players register pro or transferred before age 23. Concacaf clubs received US$194 miilion last year.

On the women's side, US$3.3 million was spent on transfers. Concacaf received US$300k.

 

 

[Sechat23]

14 hours ago, red card said:

it does outside of North America. 

FIFA just released the 2022 transfer report which helps to fund academies elsewhere. Transfer revenues for men totalled US$6.5B which is still below pre-covid levels. 70% of transfers with a fee were less than US$1 million. 50% were below US$300k.

Close to 60% of transfers with fees also had additional revenue potential with a sell-on fee. There was also US$73 million paid in solidarity payments in 2022 to youth clubs who had former players register pro or transferred before age 23. Concacaf clubs received US$194 miilion last year.

On the women's side, US$3.3 million was spent on transfers. Concacaf received US$300k.

 

 

Yes, that all sounds great. Teams like FC Barcelona have a great academy. But they are now struggling with money which might not help with their academy. 

Pay-to-play has a place but 2,500 is not the right way to do it. EU system is also not a good system from a business point of view. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 1/27/2023 at 2:37 PM, Dominic94 said:

There’s really no reason why a soccer teams fees should be 1000$ in a big city in Canada. Unless they’re a private team.

1000 a year? That does not seem unreasonable. 

In the context I am used to, in Spain, kids pay anywhere from 50-80 euros a month for ten months. Plus gear, club membership fees. Maybe training 2 times a week at first. That is not considered excessive.

True, clubs will often give grants to those players whose parents might express difficulties with fee structures, say a parent has lost their job. 

That cost is not considered pay to play.