Match Thread: July 30, 2022 - Valour v Pacific

[Cheeta]

^ Yeah....we were sort of on "Emil" for the 2nd half there.  Just doing our part to give the man a wee taste of the professional experience and clearly felt like he should return a bit.  At least he went home happy.  The officials got it good, as you'd expect.  Don't think they're going to be too happy next few days.

 

[top cheese]

Valor can only blame themselves they threw the game a way in 5m. Stupid second yellow for the red. Why are you diving on a yellow up 1-0? other then that the team is much better on both sides of the ball, good structure and the players seem like they have a good attitude towards each other. Massive difference in the team from past years. The new CB looks like a really good signing to, him and AJB make a really good pair!

[jonovision]

Looked a similar or slightly bigger crowd to last home game, which had been the largest to date. Too bad that Winnipeggers are just starting to pay attention right at the moment where the team no longer has anything to play for in the season.

Edited July 30, 2022 by jonovision

[Big_M]

+ first goal was offside...and reffing was against valour? lol

[charlesmazz]

53 minutes ago, Big_M said:

+ first goal was offside...and reffing was against valour? lol

I was at the game and the play looked close. The photo however shows 2 Valour players in an off side position when the initial shot was taken. 

[Cheeta]

Valour centric thoughts and impressions before the re-watch.

That puts Valour at 1 win versus 11 loses against Pacific, no?  LOL.  Oh, brother. 

Quite the introduction there from Mr. Mekideche.  Cheeta like.  Cheeta like a lot.   Not a bad run out by Forbes either, eh?

Compared to earlier in the year wonderful movement through midfield with the addition of the imports.  Improving with every match.  We're at midseason though, tough set of opponents or no this series of home matches has to produce results.

Pretty good crowd for a Saturday during August Long!  Is it that we're getting soft because, LOL, was there a stampede to the concorse at halftime.  It was a hot afternoon, but not Winnipeg hot.  Valley flatlanders know what I mean. 

Geezus, Mary and all the Saints.  You tell me how the ref, from his position, adjudged Ascanio for simulation and I'll tell you how to fu'k right off.  Georges could have pulled the man's hair as he ran past him the ref decided there was never going to be a penalty on the play before it even began.  Terrible. 

Two great goals by Diaz, of course.  Damn his eyes.   

Though Emil didn't do too bad.  Saved what he needed to.  Had a right smart one there in the 2nd half.

Bustos contingent out as usual.  Good for them.  I don't know why but Marco getting the gears from the locals seems to get to him a bit.  Ah well.  Bit of emotional intensity is good for the moment. 

In closing... GAWD DAMIT. 

P.S.  Papa Sirois was in town for the match.  Very pleasant fellow.   

  

 

 

 

[jonovision]

23 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

We're at midseason though, tough set of opponents or no this series of home matches has to produce results.

Valour have 6 out of 7 upcoming at home. Win all 6 and lose the roadie and they're still probably not in a playoff spot at the end of it. It's over.

[Soccerpro2]

27 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

Valour centric thoughts and impressions before the re-watch.

That puts Valour at 1 win versus 11 loses against Pacific, no?  LOL.  Oh, brother. 

Quite the introduction there from Mr. Mekideche.  Cheeta like.  Cheeta like a lot.   Not a bad run out by Forbes either, eh?

Compared to earlier in the year wonderful movement through midfield with the addition of the imports.  Improving with every match.  We're at midseason though, tough set of opponents or no this series of home matches has to produce results.

Pretty good crowd for a Saturday during August Long!  Is it that we're getting soft because, LOL, was there a stampede to the concorse at halftime.  It was a hot afternoon, but not Winnipeg hot.  Valley flatlanders know what I mean. 

Geezus, Mary and all the Saints.  You tell me how the ref, from his position, adjudged Ascanio for simulation and I'll tell you how to fu'k right off.  Georges could have pulled the man's hair as he ran past him the ref decided there was never going to be a penalty on the play before it even began.  Terrible. 

Two great goals by Diaz, of course.  Damn his eyes.   

Though Emil didn't do too bad.  Saved what he needed to.  Had a right smart one there in the 2nd half.

Bustos contingent out as usual.  Good for them.  I don't know why but Marco getting the gears from the locals seems to get to him a bit.  Ah well.  Bit of emotional intensity is good for the moment. 

In closing... GAWD DAMIT. 

P.S.  Papa Sirois was in town for the match.  Very pleasant fellow.   

  

 

 

 

If Valour had this roster at the start of the season, maybe they'd be top 4. The reality is they didn't, and the first half of the season was painful to watch with 0 creativity in midfield and nothing but constant back passes. That's on the club. Visas got delayed for the new imports? That's a fact of life now, plan for the scenario. It's too late to catch the top 4 for the playoffs.

No playoffs in 4 seasons in 7-8 team league is atrocious. People in Winnipeg really love Rob Gale, but man, he is the architect of a lot of the destruction to this club, especially those thousands of fans that didn't come back after watching Valour get smashed at home all the time in year 1. Wade Miller wants 4-5000 fans per home game? Making the playoffs once helps. 

It's easy to see why Mekideche is starting already. Dude was silky smooth today.

Bustos and his clan are kind of toxic. His brother was always on twitter picking internet fights with anyone who dared criticize his brother. They're kind of symbolic of some of the infighting/fighting politics in Canadian soccer. Obviously, Bustos made the right move in going to Pacific, but it also seems clear now that CPL is his ceiling and he wasted some god given talent as a youngster.

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Soccerpro2

[Aird25]

I understand the disappointment in losing a match in that manner but I think some of the Valour anger is misplaced. The most egregious referee error was on the Valour goal. The sending off was forced by Ascanio’s bid for an Oscar. Contact or not, that was far more theatrics than reasonable when you’re up a goal, controlling play, and already toeing the line for a red. He forced the ref to either call a penalty or a send him off and neither was necessary as I still haven’t seen an angle that’s definitive

[jonovision]

7 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I understand the disappointment in losing a match in that manner but I think some of the Valour anger is misplaced. The most egregious referee error was on the Valour goal. The sending off was forced by Ascanio’s bid for an Oscar. Contact or not, that was far more theatrics than reasonable when you’re up a goal, controlling play, and already toeing the line for a red. He forced the ref to either call a penalty or a send him off and neither was necessary as I still haven’t seen an angle that’s definitive

I don't think you can say that. Whether or not there is contact is 100% decisive in anyone's evaluation of the play.

And the biggest error was #7 not being sent off for his yellow card challenge, or a later challenge.

I don't think there's a single person who watched the game, no matter their allegiance, that doesn't think the ref got a lot of big decisions wrong. Referees in this league simply aren't up to the level, which is saying something since the level isn't that high.

Edited July 31, 2022 by jonovision

[jonovision]

Some game-day experience (unrelated to action on pitch) thoughts, after a handful of matches for me in person this year, first since 2019:

• I already posted this above, but soccer should not be played in Winnipeg, on that turf, in the afternoon in July and August. Soccer is not meant to be a summer sport and the game suffers for it.
• The bike valet (an innovation years ago from a local bike group that the Bombers took over) is great. The best way to get in and out of the stadium for lots of people in St. Vital and Fort Garry, or further flung areas for some more aerobically inclined.
• As someone else posted, the seating area is too wide, at least until crowds regularly push 5000. The Trench gang usually does a good job of getting other sections involved or even picking up on stuff started in other sections but the distance is too great to really coordinate things. And the Trench seats are really crap for actually following the game. It looks bad on TV too, though I don't care about that.
• A personal beef, and I appreciate all the energy the drummers put in, but you can have drumming, or you can have good singing and chanting. You can't have both, at least not until the number of singing diehards grows about 10x.
• Lots of jerseys in the crowd today, and I especially noticed a lot of the new whites. I have one myself, they're really comfortable and sharp-looking. I wonder what the merch revenue deal is between the team/league/Macron.
• Despite the result on the pitch, lots of the obvious first-timers sitting around me seemed to be having a good time. Hopefully they'll be back. I noticed a group behind me with a half dozen Central Americans that donned luchador masks for a bit. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by jonovision

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, Big_M said:

no contact here...

still no contact...

still no contact......

and then throws all his weight to fall a meter further which would not be the case if he got tripped

great call by the ref...should be an example for the whole league...you wanna dive in the box the yellow could very well come whether you have a yellow or not...so stop that acting

I just saw the highlights, but that did seem like a dive watching. Then, you have the assistant on that side with an even better angle. Diving when leading the game 1-0 second half and you already have a card. That is not on the officiating.

[jonovision]

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/2022/07/30/valour-dominate-but-fall-to-pacific-fc

[shermanator]

Pretty ballsy of Dos Santos to pull out the "league doesn't want us to win" card. From their inception, Valour have put nothing more than a half-assed effort on the pitch and in the game day experience. The result is bottom half club in the standings every year, and a club that is bleeding support. Even the supporters group is down 75% from 2019.

If you want to be taken seriously as a club, you have to put the effort in. Or you can put in the effort that Edmonton and York put in and follow the same path. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by shermanator

[top cheese]

4 hours ago, jonovision said:

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/2022/07/30/valour-dominate-but-fall-to-pacific-fc

I have to agree that they really dominated that game but managed to give it away in a 5 minute span by loosing focus after the red card. Giving up a goal directly from loosing possession on a kick off is very unacceptable. 

- Mekideche was really impressive. His timing on challenges and aerial duals are excellent. and hes pretty solid in possession as well. I can see how he gathered some MLS interest before signing CPL.

- Rea has taken a big leap forward this year. His movement is more intelligent and hes making better decisions on the ball. 

- I think this valor team is much more structured with and without the ball. And they are looking much more like a professional level team. I think it is hard to build a team/club from scratch, it been obvious that the successful CPL clubs to date have had a structure in place before the league started and was better equipped to start. I think the community needs to start getting out and supporting this group more. the crowds to date have been great and they are starting to get more supportive. 

- On Bustos, he is no big loss for the team or the community. Yesterday he was'nt an influence on the game until valour went down a player. I thought his "fans" in the pacific corner were poorly behaved.  I think more or less hes a representation of the first year with valour - a lot of local players who were very me orientated and thought they were at a higher level then what they were. I hate to say it but Bustos is a bust. To have the talent he does and to not establish himself any further then CPL is a major disappointment and waste of his talent so valour fans should not be disappointed in his departure. 

- The other local mulikumba (spelling) on pacific looked like a serviceable player as well. Shocking to see that he wasnt signed by valour last year. 

- One other noticeable thing with valour the management of the team. It seems that every year they have issues with visas for their imports. This year missing players for half the year is potentially going to cost them a playoff spot. Same goes for some of the signings every year we waste a roster spot or cap space on players like esparaniza (spelling again) or the african player last year who conned Gale into thinking he was a professional player. These decisions are costing the club points and development time for Canadian players. 

 

[Aird25]

I have no clue what Marco’s friends and family did to draw ire, but it sounded like Bustos was booed from start to finish. I find it very difficult to understand the dislike he gets from Winnipeg supporters. He’s come across as nothing but a humble, hard working person while on the island. He has six more assists than any other CPL player, and he’s amongst the leaders in goals as well. That doesn’t scream a selfish player, and certainly not a bust. He may lack the natural athletic ability to play in MLS or other top leagues but he’s very good at this level. It sounds like it he made the right decision to get out of Winnipeg if this is the type of support a local lad receives. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

45 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I have no clue what Marco’s friends and family did to draw ire, but it sounded like Bustos was booed from start to finish. I find it very difficult to understand the dislike he gets from Winnipeg supporters. He’s come across as nothing but a humble, hard working person while on the island. He has six more assists than any other CPL player, and he’s amongst the leaders in goals as well. That doesn’t scream a selfish player, and certainly not a bust. He may lack the natural athletic ability to play in MLS or other top leagues but he’s very good at this level. It sounds like it he made the right decision to get out of Winnipeg if this is the type of support a local lad receives. 

I'm fine with that sort of support, once a player is on an opposing team they are fair game.

I don't always agree with it, for example, at Whitecaps when the opposing players are announced every name is followed by "wanker", a dumb term, but to my point: I have trouble saying even that about any Canadian player on an opposing team. But during a match I am fine with booing every rival.

The only rival players I have ever seen applauded or respected at Camp Nou, during a game or esp when subbed off, are very senior veterans who play at a high level, like Joaquin from Betis or Iago Aspas at Celta (both of whom are amazing and the former, just turned 41, still an excellent player, the best field player at that age in the world no question). I think I once saw a Shevchenko masterclass that was respected. The Bernabeu famously stood up for Ronaldinho one match, an unusually classy reaction. But it is very exceptional. 

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

I have no clue what Marco’s friends and family did to draw ire, but it sounded like Bustos was booed from start to finish. I find it very difficult to understand the dislike he gets from Winnipeg supporters. He’s come across as nothing but a humble, hard working person while on the island. He has six more assists than any other CPL player, and he’s amongst the leaders in goals as well. That doesn’t scream a selfish player, and certainly not a bust. He may lack the natural athletic ability to play in MLS or other top leagues but he’s very good at this level. It sounds like it he made the right decision to get out of Winnipeg if this is the type of support a local lad receives. 

This is typical of the treatment any important player gets in any sport in any city that moves on to greener pastures. He had some things to say about Valour after he left that weren't positive, but they were probably true as the team was a mess while he was here.

I would say for his first 2-3 seasons in CPL he was very good for this league. I'd say this year he's close to a league average starter. For example, would I prefer him to Sean Rea, a player who plays a very similar role? I'm not sure I would, yet it's not like Rea is some world beater.

[Aird25]

I have no issues with the booing really, but saying he’s a bust and that he wasn’t a loss for Valour seems silly. He was by far and away the MVP before his injury 

[jonovision]

22 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I have no issues with the booing really, but saying he’s a bust and that he wasn’t a loss for Valour seems silly. He was by far and away the MVP before his injury 

I'd disagree that he was a bust. Whether or not his departure represents a loss has a lot to do with what kind of salary he was on for a CPL team as stingy with their player budget as Valour. Although it's not like Gale had the knowhow to turn any sort of savings into a useful player or three. The worst version of Valour is the one that had Bustos on it in a starring role, but lots of other factors were at play, of course.

Edited July 31, 2022 by jonovision

[Wippersuna]

2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

I have no clue what Marco’s friends and family did to draw ire, but it sounded like Bustos was booed from start to finish. I find it very difficult to understand the dislike he gets from Winnipeg supporters.

Bustos drawing ire is pretty easy to understand. He was one of our only bright spots year one and local on top of it. He then left to a team that always beats us and won a championship/MVP while Valour were left with… this. His family/friends come out and start chanting as soon as they (inevitably) take the lead which just adds insult to injury and annoys people. The fact that they do things like flip off De Briene when he gets subbed and generally come off as loud and confrontational further annoys people which, admittedly, is what they want to do.

Basically if Pacific didn’t always win and we didn’t always suck the situation would probably be different. 
 

This all said I do think we did a pretty good job of making him less effective (sans 5 minutes) yesterday.

[masster]

On 7/30/2022 at 4:39 PM, charlesmazz said:

I was at the game and the play looked close. The photo however shows 2 Valour players in an off side position when the initial shot was taken. 

And yet you had Jim Brennan on the broadcast calling this goal onside! How can OneSoccer keep using him? He is terrible!!

[ted]

On 7/30/2022 at 1:29 PM, Wippersuna said:

Tripped in the box let’s give him a card. What?

If you watch the replays he clearly goes down and then kicks out with his left leg to make contact with the defender.

 

On 7/30/2022 at 2:57 PM, jonovision said:

After making one save of note all game, and making an absolute gift of the first goal (a ball that nobody being played to play football should cough up.) Good comic timing, that guy.

What game were you watching?

On the goal, it was the defender that f****d Gazdov, who then made a brilliant initial save and then got unlucky on the rebound. The kid had a great game and deserved to be proud of his role in in an important win.

 

11 hours ago, shermanator said:

Pretty ballsy of Dos Santos to pull out the "league doesn't want us to win" card.

Hey at least this time he didn't get fired the morning after losing to Pacific.    (Too soon?)

[jonovision]

3109 is the attendance given on CanPL.ca. I would have thought a little closer to the previous game's number (3600) but still above the season average on a summer long weekend. The crowd for Wednesday's game will be interesting.

[jonovision]

deleted, wrong thread

Edited August 3, 2022 by jonovision