Victor Loturi

[Bison44]

David 
Larin 
Cav
Ugbo
Brym 
Corbeanu
Akinola 
Akindele
Jebbison
Combria
De Ro Jr.
Diallo

Who is Diallo??

[narduch]

4 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Not sure how a list of 8 proven guys and then a few highly rated prospects proves that Akio is a viable option? Its not a comprehensive list but 8 proven players seems like its enough to say that akio is far off the CMNT. Listing 8 viable options doesnt mean that Akio is 9th on the depth chart either. Add in prospects with higher ceilings than Akio and his chances look quite low. If 8 guys go down with injuries then we still have guys like Bair, Ongaro, Pasher, Colyn etc who are likely ahead of Akio as well in regards to a call up. But the liklihood we lose out on 8 established strikers before any of our countless striker prospects make the jump up to the first team is quite unlikely. 

The only guys on your list that have proven anything at this point are David, Larin and Cavallini.

Ugbo has only had 1 good season in Belgium and that was 2 seasons ago now.

Akindele is on the downside of his career. May as well include Ricketts too.

Brym needs to show he can do it at a better league.

Jebbison and Corbeanu are still finding their way.

I could go on.

At this point you are just listing a bunch of names for the sake of it. Including a name like Diallo sort of points to that.

 

[narduch]

4 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Who is Diallo??

He is in Inter Milan's youth system.

We all know what a waste land Italy has been for Canadian player development too.

Hello Julian Uccello!

[Buchta]

5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

 

Who is Diallo??

I assume Oumar Diallo (Inter Milan U18)

[Bigandy]

Ugbo is 100% a proven striker in the CMNT system in regards to call ups. 

Ugbo vs akio is ugbo all day every day.
Same for Brym
 Akindele is still more likely than akio as an emergency option until a new prospect steps up.... this would be if we need an 8th choice
Jebbison and corbeanu are finding their way but are miles ahead of akio.  Not even a question.

I am not naming names for the sake of it.  I listed 8 strikers who are clearly ahead of akio in the present. Then i named young prospects who have higher ceilings than akio. The purpose of talking about prospects is because it shows that akio is not the present and his outlook is even bleaker as we move forward. 

We can start adding more names to potential players  competing with akio.
1. Enin
2. Gloire Amanda 
3.Pepple
4. Davidson - more of a winger
5. NCAA draft prospects

My point is that he is not better than any current players. why would we call akio over a jebbison or brym. Even enin and pepple have more upside.  

Edited December 16, 2022 by Bigandy

[Razcal]

38 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I like Loturi, but so far, he seems to be playing sparingly for a Ross County, a side near the bottom of the table.

If they get relegated, he likely gets a lot of playing time in the Scottish Championship, but that likely pushes back his timeline to make the national team. If they stay up but he hasn't played a lot by season's end, is he ready for a national team call this summer? 

As things stand now, I don't see him featuring for Canada until after Gold Cup. There are a number of MLS guys like Priso, Kerr, Thompson, Rutty and even Baldisimo (if he's not officially gone to Philippians) who are similar age and may be vying for a Gold Cup midfield spot - and they'll be in season too.

He’s actually pushed his way into their starting lineup in a relatively short period of time considering the level he moved from.

[Obinna]

Just now, Razcal said:

He’s actually pushed his way into their starting lineup in a relatively short period of time considering the level he moved from.

That's encouraging! Saw on wiki he's only played 7 SPL games, but maybe that's outdated (wouldn't be the first time).

[jordan]

7 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Ugbo is 100% a proven striker in the CMNT system in regards to call ups. 

Ugbo vs akio is ugbo all day every day.
Same for Brym
 Akindele is still more likely than akio as an emergency option until a new prospect steps up.... this would be if we need an 8th choice
Jebbison and corbeanu are finding their way but are miles ahead of akio.  Not even a question.

I am not naming names for the sake of it.  I listed 8 strikers who are clearly ahead of akio in the present. Then i named young prospects who have higher ceilings than akio. The purpose of talking about prospects is because it shows that akio is not the present and his outlook is even bleaker as we move forward. 

We can start adding more names to potential players  competing with akio.
1. Enin
2. Gloire Amanda 
3.Pepple
4. Davidson - more of a winger
5. NCAA draft prospects

My point is that he is not better than any current players. why would we call akio over a jebbison or brym. Even enin and pepple have more upside.  

Bolded part doesn't really do you any favours.

[Razcal]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That's encouraging! Saw on wiki he's only played 7 SPL games, but maybe that's outdated (wouldn't be the first time).

Looked really good against Celtic just before the break too.

[Bison44]

Cripes, who is Davidson??  I guess I have to go and study the canucks abroad spreadsheet for awhile.  

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

Cripes, who is Davidson??  I guess I have to go and study the canucks abroad spreadsheet for awhile.  

He's in Celtic's youth system.

Anyways. I'm done derailing this thread.

Loturi does indeed deserve a look.

[Bigandy]

14 minutes ago, jordan said:

Bolded part doesn't really do you any favours.

Why's that? 
ennin - Way higher in the depth charts than akio. Was pushing for a call up before the war
Amanda - Striker in Austria. Surely hes comparable to Akio. Who gets the call up between the 2 is close
Pepple - 5 years younger than akio and is owned by a champioship club. Surely his ceiling is higher than akio. Sure he is a prospect but my point is that we have lots of propects that are more likely than akio to get a call up. 
Davidson - Maybe a poor inclusion because hes a winger but it would be criminal to give a roster spot to akio over davidson. He has high potential and is a dual. 
NCAA - Specifically levonte Johnson - He is on a similar pathway as tajon or larin and is nominated for the MAC Hermann trophy. Discounting him would be a mistake. Currently he may not be ahead of akio but after he is drafted, its hard to not imagine him signing for an mls club and quickly establishing himself over akio. 

Is there really any arguments that Akio is firmly ahead of any of these guys? 

Also I 100% agree loturi deserves a look. Not Akio though. 

[VinceA]

17 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Why's that? 
ennin - Way higher in the depth charts than akio. Was pushing for a call up before the war
Amanda - Striker in Austria. Surely hes comparable to Akio. Who gets the call up between the 2 is close
Pepple - 5 years younger than akio and is owned by a champioship club. Surely his ceiling is higher than akio. Sure he is a prospect but my point is that we have lots of propects that are more likely than akio to get a call up. 
Davidson - Maybe a poor inclusion because hes a winger but it would be criminal to give a roster spot to akio over davidson. He has high potential and is a dual. 
NCAA - Specifically levonte Johnson - He is on a similar pathway as tajon or larin and is nominated for the MAC Hermann trophy. Discounting him would be a mistake. Currently he may not be ahead of akio but after he is drafted, its hard to not imagine him signing for an mls club and quickly establishing himself over akio. 

Is there really any arguments that Akio is firmly ahead of any of these guys? 

Also I 100% agree loturi deserves a look. Not Akio though. 

No one knows if Levonte will pan out. Isn't he a 99? He's *potentially* starting his professional career the year he turns 24 and there's even a chance its not even at the MLS level.

[jordan]

4 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Why's that? 
ennin - Way higher in the depth charts than akio. Was pushing for a call up before the war
Amanda - Striker in Austria. Surely hes comparable to Akio. Who gets the call up between the 2 is close
Pepple - 5 years younger than akio and is owned by a champioship club. Surely his ceiling is higher than akio. Sure he is a prospect but my point is that we have lots of propects that are more likely than akio to get a call up. 
Davidson - Maybe a poor inclusion because hes a winger but it would be criminal to give a roster spot to akio over davidson. He has high potential and is a dual. 
NCAA - Specifically levonte Johnson - He is on a similar pathway as tajon or larin and is nominated for the MAC Hermann trophy. Discounting him would be a mistake. Currently he may not be ahead of akio but after he is drafted, its hard to not imagine him signing for an mls club and quickly establishing himself over akio. 

Is there really any arguments that Akio is firmly ahead of any of these guys? 

Also I 100% agree loturi deserves a look. Not Akio though. 

Ennin I shouldn’t have bolded.

Amanda not exactly working out over there is he?

Davidson who no one has watched, and isn’t good enough for the Scottish youth teams, but is some how good enough for our team based on two tweets and a daily record article, doesn’t make it criminal to not call.

Pepple out of form, out of the squad more than not lately.

Being good in NCAA doesn’t always translate, Dante Polvara was a Mac Hermann finalist and isn’t exactly lighting it up as a pro, and Gloire Amanda won this award.

For me I would hope the national team is calling up based on form, not upside. So if Akio did remain eligible and was in form over any of them my expectation would be the in form player goes.

The larger the pool the better, USA gave first caps to a 25 year old this year, El Salvador to a 29 year old, Honduras a 31 year old, they seem to call on form not upside.

 

[Obinna]

44 minutes ago, Razcal said:

Looked really good against Celtic just before the break too.

I do recall hearing that. Never saw the match though. While that's nice to hear, I am not sure how much to read into looking good for a side getting pummeled by Celtic. Now to be fair, Eustaquio looked really good numerous times against teams like Benfica and Porto while playing for Pacos, but the difference is that Stef was very clearly the best player in that team. 

But at least starting regularly could be the first signs of Loturi doing similar for Ross County. Let's hope he starts the 2nd half very well. If he can be an everyday starter from here until March, he would be a top my list for a Nations League call. 

Edit: I mean he would be top of my list for new players, not saying he'd be ahead of guys like Eustaquio, Kone, Oso, etc. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Obinna

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I do recall hearing that. Never saw the match though. While that's nice to hear, I am not sure how much to read into looking good for a side getting pummeled by Celtic. Now to be fair, Eustaquio looked really good numerous times against teams like Benfica and Porto while playing for Pacos, but the difference is that Stef was very clearly the best player in that team. 

But at least starting regularly could be the first signs of Loturi doing similar for Ross County. Let's hope he starts the 2nd half very well. If he can be an everyday starter from here until March, he would be a top my list for a Nations League call. 

Edit: I mean he would be top of my list for new players, not saying he'd be ahead of guys like Eustaquio, Kone, Oso, etc. 

Keep in mind too that he's only been in Scotland for 5 months so far- he was playing Canadian University soccer less than 2 years ago, and as of november, he's now starting for Ross County. By the time Eustaquio made it to Pacos, he was 23, vs Loturi being 20 in Scotland.

He's definitely behind the guys you mentioned- I don't know that he has star potential, but he's taken enough of a leap in a relatively quick time that there's at least the potential he grows beyond Ross County.

As for Akio... why? Moved to Scotland at 24. Has started two games, and hasn't played over 20 minutes in any of his last 7 games (and 2 DNPs). He'll be 25 by the Gold Cup and 28 by the next World Cup, and while many teams debut even older players, I don't see anything he has that other players don't. I don't see why you would give him a roster spot over younger, more promising players- would there ever be a reason to call him up over Simon Colyn, for example? He's never had a senior cap and I think he's showed more than Akio has. Just an example of a player who isn't in the NT picture, who I think we'd still pick over him.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, jordan said:

Ennin I shouldn’t have bolded.

Amanda not exactly working out over there is he?

Davidson who no one has watched, and isn’t good enough for the Scottish youth teams, but is some how good enough for our team based on two tweets and a daily record article, doesn’t make it criminal to not call.

Pepple out of form, out of the squad more than not lately.

Being good in NCAA doesn’t always translate, Dante Polvara was a Mac Hermann finalist and isn’t exactly lighting it up as a pro, and Gloire Amanda won this award.

For me I would hope the national team is calling up based on form, not upside. So if Akio did remain eligible and was in form over any of them my expectation would be the in form player goes.

The larger the pool the better, USA gave first caps to a 25 year old this year, El Salvador to a 29 year old, Honduras a 31 year old, they seem to call on form not upside.

 

Great analysis of all the players. I agree with everything your saying, however even with the criticism of these guys, i dont think that akio is clearly better or ahead of them in the depth charts.  

I also think form and talent level should be considered. Haber (i think) has been banging in goals in cambodia but obv his great form is at a low talent level. 

[Bigandy]

50 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Keep in mind too that he's only been in Scotland for 5 months so far- he was playing Canadian University soccer less than 2 years ago, and as of november, he's now starting for Ross County. By the time Eustaquio made it to Pacos, he was 23, vs Loturi being 20 in Scotland.

He's definitely behind the guys you mentioned- I don't know that he has star potential, but he's taken enough of a leap in a relatively quick time that there's at least the potential he grows beyond Ross County.

As for Akio... why? Moved to Scotland at 24. Has started two games, and hasn't played over 20 minutes in any of his last 7 games (and 2 DNPs). He'll be 25 by the Gold Cup and 28 by the next World Cup, and while many teams debut even older players, I don't see anything he has that other players don't. I don't see why you would give him a roster spot over younger, more promising players- would there ever be a reason to call him up over Simon Colyn, for example? He's never had a senior cap and I think he's showed more than Akio has. Just an example of a player who isn't in the NT picture, who I think we'd still pick over him.

Fully agree with your assessment on both players. I think peter galindo is on the loturi hype train which i liked hearing! 

[InglewoodJack]

4 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Fully agree with your assessment on both players. I think peter galindo is on the loturi hype train which i liked hearing! 

I was actually gonna add something about the NF guys being the conductors of the Loturi hype train- they talk about him like he's our next star, which I'm not fully onboard with yet, but he's probably ~top 5 non CANMNT player to watch in 2023, I think.

[Aird25]

 

29 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I also think form and talent level should be considered.

FYI the original comment you disagreed with was this, ""If Akio starts banging in goals in the SPL we would be foolish not to consider him" 

Also, Akio is a winger, not a striker afaik

[Bigandy]

13 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

 

FYI the original comment you disagreed with was this, ""If Akio starts banging in goals in the SPL we would be foolish not to consider him" 

Also, Akio is a winger, not a striker afaik

That's false. I endorsed him by saying if my gam gam bangs in goals, we should look at both of them....I would never think we shouldnt look at a player whos banging in goals in a div 1 league in europe. 

I just cant see it happening and was talking about the depth chart afterwards. 

Youre right that akio is a winger though, my bad.  This puts him even further down on the depth charts.
1. davies
2. buchanan
3. Hoilett
4. Larin
5. Millar
6. Corbeanu
7. Brym 
8. Koleosho
9. Shaffelberg
10. Colyn
11. Dias? 
12. Nelson
13. Laryea? 
14. Oso?
15. Ugbo - been playing there for troyes
16. Edwards?
17. Davidson
18. abzi?
19. spoony
20. Farsi
21.JRR
22. Bunbury
23.Pasher
24. Tesho  

The ? are guys who have played as a wide midfielder and would likely play there before akio.  

[phil03]

14 hours ago, jordan said:

 

So, I have mixed feelings here. On one hand, I like Loturi too and am glad the club encourages him to pursue national ambitions. If nothing else it shows the reputation of the program has gone a long way. 

On the other, I almost feel like saying ''then do a better job and develop him and your club in general!'' The days when Canada would take anyone willing to come by are thankfully gone, and so are those where it made sense to take basically anyone playing in a first division in Europe over an MLSer. If they want Loturi and Patton to get national team minutes, they should get on the top half of the table before the cutout, show they can at least compete against the Old Firm on multiple occasions, maybe play European Soccer, and have Patton and Loturi play while doing so! 

Right now Loturi is sadly only playing scant minutes for a club in a relegation fight and there might even be an argument that he might be better elsewhere...

Edited December 17, 2022 by phil03

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, phil03 said:

So, I have mixed feelings here. On one hand, I like Loturi too and am glad the club encourages him to pursue national ambitions. If nothing else it shows the reputation of the program has gone a long way. 

On the other, I almost feel like saying ''then do a better job and develop him and your club in general!'' The days when Canada would take anyone willing to come by are thankfully gone, and so are those where it made sense to take basically anyone playing in a first division in Europe over an MLSer. If they want Loturi and Patton to get national team minutes, they should get on the top half of the table before the cutout, show they can at least compete against the Old Firm on multiple occasions, maybe play European Soccer, and have Patton and Loturi play while doing so! 

Right now Loturi is sadly only playing scant minutes for a club in a relegation fight and there might even be an argument that he might be better elsewhere...

He has played 73, 90 and 90 in Ross County 's last 3 competitive matches.

[phil03]

Just now, narduch said:

He has played 73, 90 and 90 in Ross County 's last 3 competitive matches.

I meant the overall season. The time side of it might improve, and there are indeed signs it is doing so, but the fact remains that he needs to be regularly and reliably exposed to tougher opponents than low-table Scottish premiership, or god forbid the championship, for his development and to prove himself enough to get a call-up. 

[bfque8]

Circling back to the Akio/cap-tie conversation; I am 99.9% sure that Akio did in fact manage to inadvertently cap-tie himself to South Sudan with his appearances against Djibouti — those caps wouldn't have been an issue, had he been younger than 21 (ie. 20 or under)...

 

As far as I can tell, it's a combination of two specific rules at play:

• AFCON Qualifying (as also pertains to other confederation competitions like the Gold Cup) matches do not fall under cap-tying appearances, as FIFA only counts matches played at the World Cup, in World Cup Qualifying, and in the final tournament proper of confederation competitions — under this rule, Akio would still eligible, but, combined with the age requirement element of Article 9.2 (c), he would've have to have been under 21 at the time of his last cap at senior 'A' international level (i.e. competitive, non-friendly matches) for him to be eligible for a switch; as his two matches against Djibouti were at age 23/24, he's no longer eligible under that rule (and also doesn't qualify under any others).

 

note - caveat emptor that it's now the n-th time that I've read the FIFA statues/articles and everything is starting to meld into one... but as far as I'm comprehending things, he unfortunately ruled himself out of a cap.

Edited December 20, 2022 by bfque8