BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) One pitfall that should have been identified is the severe aversion that many top European clubs still have for playing on fieldturf and what that can do to ticket prices to reach breakeven after appearance fees are factored in. Only Halifax are expected to play on grass and they will have a capacity of 5000 or so. Edited October 6, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion26 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Very cool to see those twitter post, but that relegation and promotion aspect of it all is something I hope happens way down the line really many years from opening day. If they can get large investment that will sustain it for many years maybe, but not yet and maybe never. Don't want that Euro feel to the league when only 2-4 teams have a shot at winning the championship. I don't know I like MLS model and playoff could be improved upon no doubt, but it's unpredictable. Maybe they have rel and pro with cap who knows. ironcub14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Paul Beirne is saying a national broadcast deal isn't in their business plan. Wouldn't say that. He said it wasn't necessary for the model to work and emphasized that they need to see where the media market is going. Last night he made a passing comment about broadcasting (can't remember exactly, was cooking with it in the background), so it's not like they aren't thinking about it at all Rheo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: What would such a marketing company have to sell that would be hugely revenue positive? The Curacao game shows what can still go wrong with the CMNT where home games are concerned and the new Nations League setup probably means more games like that.... I'd say that was less on the CMNT and more on the location and opponent selection, I do believe it was the worst drawing domestic game played since another Montreal game. I think all but maybe 1 game outside of Montreal in the last decade have drawn around 10k. 3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: CanPL? Paul Beirne is saying a national broadcast deal isn't in their business plan. I agree here. The CPL won't be sellable on a national level without some form of TV. Hopefully they're working on it. 3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Friendlies by big name overseas clubs? Benfica vs Rangers shows the pitfalls even if it was probably mainly a local Portuguese community thing. That was driven by overpricing tickets it and sudden announcement it seems. They totally did over estimate Benfica's Toronto fanbase's willingness to go. However friendlies largely are successful money makers. It's a matter of finding the right teams that are game to play and won't break the bank. 3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: ...SUM works as well as it does because of a special set of circumstances where Mexican and some other CONCACAF teams can make more money playing in the United States than at home and need USSF permission to be able to do so. There is no easy way to translate that into a similarly successful Canadian company. The Toronto friendly was the biggest game Jamaica has played outside of Gold Cup games and the home games and was likely a massive money maker for them. Canada does have potential to copy SUM on a smaller scale especially for teams like Jamaica and TnT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Thompson Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 No playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 (edited) Got some clarification on Brampton CPL. I got an email from the people who run the website. It was a response to a question I had about the make up and structure of their ownership group. Here it is: “The Ownership will not be offered to the Public . Group is owned by Business professional in the Brampton Area.” Edited October 8, 2017 by Macksam Rheo and CDNFootballer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 (edited) Does that analogy really work? If the Bundesliga had teams in Stockholm, Gothenberg and Malmo, people would view the status of the Swedish league very differently from the way they do at the moment. Think there also needs to be some realism on this development league angle. Do soccer fans really have an issue with this when everybody that understands the sport knows that there is a pecking order and that teams from national leagues around the world are far from equal? If you aren't Manchester United or Barcelona your best players are going to move on at the end of their contract to other clubs where they can earn more money and play at a higher standard, if they get other contract offers. Nobody seemed to think any less of TFC when Mo Edu or Doneil Henry did that sort of thing. If/when CanPL does manage to launch, people will need to come to terms with the better players that emerge moving to not just European clubs, but also MLS and possibly even top independent USL teams to do just that. Excluding rebranded reserve teams isn't going to magically make CanPL the place where young Canadian players actually most want to play. Edited October 8, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Does that analogy really work? No but oh well 21 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: ... Think there also needs to be some realism on this development league angle. Do soccer fans really have an issue with this when everybody that understands the sport knows that there is a pecking order and that teams from national leagues around the world are far from equal? If you aren't Manchester United or Barcelona your best players are going to move on at the end of their contract to other clubs where they can earn more money and play at a higher standard, if they get other contract offers. Nobody seemed to think any less of TFC when Mo Edu or Doneil Henry did that sort of thing. If/when CanPL does manage to launch, people will need to come to terms with the better players that emerge moving to not just European clubs, but also MLS and possibly even top independent USL teams to do just that. Excluding rebranded reserve teams isn't going to magically make CanPL the place where young Canadian players actually most want to play. I think you fail to see the issue. MLS* isn't a developmental league for Europe or Mexico despite its players are free to move elsewhere. There is a drastic difference between allowing a literal reserve team into your league (even if rebranded) and having your players move to stronger leagues when ready and you taking players in on loan from other leagues. Also I don't think you know where Canadian players (as a whole) want to play. As we've seen many players are excited by the CPL and some (such as Drew Beckie) have expressed a desire to not have the reserve sides and pretty fucking likely a large number of youngsters share this view. *MLS has a history of letting teams from other leagues own MLS sides. These teams have been a pain in the ass but are not reserve teams and are run mostly independent of their parent club. Edited October 8, 2017 by matty johnyb and Zem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 The original CSL deliberately weakened itself at launch by excluding two well known Toronto teams from the NSL with previous fully pro level pedigrees in the original NASL and CPSL and opted instead for the North York Rockets that had almost zero fans beyond friends and family of the players any time I went to see them play because of the ethnic team name issue. Hopefully, the similar level of dogmatism that is being shown at the moment over this reserve team issue won't be similarly damaging. It doesn't take all that many of the ten to ultimately have no viable stadium solution or to fail to secure suitable investors for this whole project to potentially fail to even get off the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: The original CSL deliberately weakened itself at launch by excluding two well known Toronto teams from the NSL with previous fully pro level pedigrees in the original NASL and CPSL and opted instead for the North York Rockets that had almost zero fans beyond friends and family of the players any time I went to see them play because of the ethnic team name issue. Hopefully, the similar level of dogmatism that is being shown at the moment over this reserve team issue won't be similarly damaging. TFC2 and Whitecaps 2 have very few fans (like the North York Rockets) and this league already has richer ownership than the CSL had so I don't think you can compare it to that league. The only real reason to push for them to be in the league is so you can have MLSE as an owner, other than that there's very little reason to want them as badly as you do. 1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: It doesn't take all that many of the ten to ultimately have no viable stadium solution or to fail to secure suitable investors for this whole project to potentially fail to even get off the ground. They've vetted them down from 16 so I'm sure these 10 are their best bets on solid teams. They also seem sure that the league can work with as few as 6 teams. How they can work with just 6 I don't know but they seem sure of it and if your sure they'll be fine without TV and as a gate league then maybe you should have some faith that they're sure not having TFC2 is a good thing (cause no TV is far worse than not having reserve sides). Anyways this issue is for now settled so leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack15 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Expanding our player pool is crucial, think of it like this: With 8 teams (25 players each) that's 200 professional soccer players available for the CMNT! We have around 100-120 combined in North America (MLS, NASL, USL) and European leagues, mostly in the lower tiers. Anyhow the very best of the best NCAA, CIS Canadians can execute in the CPL Not too mention everyone else playing Academy Football who usually fall through the cracks So in my opinion, don't tell me that this league cannot fill every single roster spot with Canadians because we can Obviously it won't be like that but I think 75-80% is a great number Mike Thompson and TFC2017 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I just don't see the connectivity between the two issues. Everyone following the news has come to grips that CPL will not be on par with MLS at launch. So, yes, there will be players that likely make the jump from CPL to MLS. Then again, they will likely make the jump to other independent leagues as well. That is the reality of running a lower level league. Thus the Sweden Germany analogy. But none of that relates to the issue of reserve sides, which has been settled for a while. Complete Homer, toontownman and matty 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Thompson Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Should the reserve sides for the whitecaps and TFC fold? Yes or No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyFromToronto23 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) Toronto blizzard, Toronto Metros or Toronto Italia S.C gets brought back Edited October 9, 2017 by DannyFromToronto23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) It is 30 years too late on having Toronto Italia and/or Croatia playing against the Blizzard in a coast to coast national league rather than the North York Rockets. Having more interest in the GTA rather than alienating a large portion of its soccer community probably would have helped the CSL hang in there when the recession of the early 90s hit, so it is more a point of drawing lessons from the past. The point was more that a league that is struggling to put the numbers needed together (I think we have been told a launch announcement was imminent by the usual suspects since at least the summer of 2015 now), isn't in a position to be turning away strong groups that are ready, willing and able to participate and that ideological purity leads to division and infighting when a Canadian league really needs everbody agreeing on a compromise and pushing in the same direction to succeed. Edited October 9, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Nothing major but MLS.com has a quote from OZ referencing the CPL https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/10/08/zambrano-calls-more-depth-competition-canada-look-ahead-2022 The former LA Galaxy coach believes the newly-sanctioned Canadian Premier League can help in this regard when it debuts in 2018 or 2019, providing more opportunities for Canadian players and giving him a chance to track more national-team talent. “That’s going to give us the ability to look at Canadian players play week-to-week,” Zambrano said on Sunday. “As a country, as a coach, we don’t have that luxury.” Establishing a Canadian league by 2019 is “very important for us,” he noted, adding that he also hopes to see Canadian players earning more minutes for the nation’s three MLS clubs. ironcub14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 17 hours ago, Macksam said: Got some clarification on Brampton CPL. I got an email from the people who run the website. It was a response to a question I had about the make up and structure of their ownership group. Here it is: “The Ownership will not be offered to the Public . Group is owned by Business professional in the Brampton Area.” How is that not Futballer? Zem, ironcub14, Complete Homer and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 It almost certainly is Futballer, if you do some googling about the background of the name Brampton Dynamic Kickers. Draw your own conclusion on how seriously to take it, if that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) On 2017-10-06 at 1:57 PM, shermanator said: That's what I expected the Can PL will eventually be. See BBTB, that's how they will appease the bigger markets, by eventually moving to an open market system. Maybe now that PB has reaffirmed that, it will get him to accept it. Now, I just need to design an mobile APP, sell it for billions so I can build a 48,000 seat stadium in Brampton and create North America's version of AFC Ajax. Gotta tighten up my C++ and Unity skills. Edited October 9, 2017 by Macksam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: It is 30 years too late on having Toronto Italia and/or Croatia playing against the Blizzard in a coast to coast national league rather than the North York Rockets. Having more interest in the GTA rather than alienating a large portion of its soccer community probably would have helped the CSL hang in there when the recession of the early 90s hit, so it is more a point of drawing lessons from the past. The point was more that a league that is struggling to put the numbers needed together (I think we have been told a launch announcement was imminent by the usual suspects since at least the summer of 2015 now), isn't in a position to be turning away strong groups that are ready, willing and able to participate and that ideological purity leads to division and infighting when a Canadian league really needs everbody agreeing on a compromise and pushing in the same direction to succeed. From PB's comments I think it's clear they have the numbers, they are just delayed by stadium approval situations beyond their control. It would be short sighted to compromise the integrity of the league forever because we have to wait for shovels to hit the soil. ironcub14 and Zem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 11 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: ...The point was more that a league that is struggling to put the numbers needed together (I think we have been told a launch announcement was imminent by the usual suspects since at least the summer of 2015 now), isn't in a position to be turning away strong groups that are ready, willing and able to participate and that ideological purity leads to division and infighting when a Canadian league really needs everbody agreeing on a compromise and pushing in the same direction to succeed. The counterpoint is that the level and kind of compromise you are talking about can be viewed as a massive concession in terms of the ceiling for, and identity of, the league. Admittedly, a pro-rel scenario might eventually allow room for reserve teams in the overall structure without pigeon-holing the identity of the league, but out of the gates the idea of including stable MLS reserve sides (that do not themselves draw crowds) at launch is simply not worth it. I would far rather they stick to the vision of an independent, non-reserve league and take the time necessary to make it happen (even if the pacing isn't to our liking) than compromise the identity of the league by including MLS reserve sides in an effort to get a quick win. And from what I have read, it seems like most on here agree, as do league organizers. Rheo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 36 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said: the idea of including stable MLS reserve sides Frankly, they don't even seem to be very stable at this point. Obviously the MLS sides are stable, but the reserve teams will be cut if the cost/benefit analysis doesn't suit the front office, as it seems to have occurred in Montreal and Vancouver. Imagine if CPL had launched with VWC II, the league could be looking at its first contraction almost immediately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) Who/What is Futballer? Edited October 9, 2017 by Blackdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I was trying to be a bit generous in my treatment of his point, but yeah, that makes it an even worse idea. I am just not sure how the idea of including (potentially disposable) MLS reserve sides in CPL could be seen as a good idea. Maybe it does from their perspective in terms of providing a better market/league for them to provide them with stability, but the idea of using Canadian footy frastrucure to further strengthen an essentially US league is exactly what we are trying yo get away from. We have aleady given them our top 3 markets - doubling down on MLS via CPL seems ill advised. Rheo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, Blackdude said: Who/What is Futballer? Either a failed soccer businessman or a troll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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