CPL General

[matty]

7 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

Was watching TFCII yesterday and it reminded me of the fact that OSC's location is totally useless for a Toronto team.

Any CPL club better be near public transit; otherwise, they will need all the luck they can get.

Where would you pick? Osc is a pain no one will argue

Remember tfc2 are likely moving to lamport

Edited September 28, 2017 by matty

[ironcub14]

Just now, matty said:

Where would you pick? Osc is a pain no one will argue

Remember tfc2 are likely moving to lamport

Oh I've already said this multiple times in this thread and in the TO thread, I'd pick none of the ones existing at the moment, literally every single one of the stadiums that's being used for L1O or above in Toronto as of today has a drawback of some sorts.

Me personally I'm hoping for some cool pop-up in the Port Lands or at Downsview or somewhere on TTC/GO but I haven't thought about this issue beyond analyzing why the ones currently existing are bad in one form or the other. That's some medium or long-term wishing from myself personally. My only real point for today is, OSC's location is totally useless for a Toronto team.

[johnyb]

On 9/27/2017 at 10:29 AM, Ansem said:

What is he doing in Quebec City...I wonder

Who cares why he is in Quebec. I just wanna know who this guys brother is and why we haven't capped him yet. 

[matty]

27 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

Oh I've already said this multiple times in this thread and in the TO thread, I'd pick none of the ones existing at the moment, literally every single one of the stadiums that's being used for L1O or above in Toronto as of today has a drawback of some sorts. I feel toronto will be stuck with a current stadium.

Me personally I'm hoping for some cool pop-up in the Port Lands or at Downsview or somewhere on TTC/GO but I haven't thought about this issue beyond analyzing why the ones currently existing are bad in one form or the other. That's some medium or long-term wishing from myself personally. My only real point for today is, OSC's location is totally useless for a Toronto team.

Good luck with port lands and downsview. Neither seems likely even for a pop up (downsview especially as tfc run out of there).

I highly disagree about osc being useless. Mainly because i don't see it being a Toronto team but instead a vaughn team with a Toronto name. Toronto at large isn't going to jump to a new team especially if in the burbs so in a sense looking to be a local team to a burb is a safer route for an audience than being "toronto's team".

Edited September 28, 2017 by matty

[harrycoyster]

The Soc Takes Podcast has posted 45 minutes from the NASL conference call about the lawsuit. It wasn't a great showing for NASL.

For those who don't have the time to listen, here are the highlights:

- NASL chairman and New York Cosmos owner Rocco B. Commisso confirms that he acted unilaterally in serving the lawsuit. The other NASL owners voted to give him permission to act on behalf of the league, but did not vote in favor of the lawsuit directly.

- Lawyers statements confirm they are primarily making the argument of conspiracy, but are also challenging US Soccer's right to involve themselves in professional soccer in general, as their charter under the Stevens Bill only mentions amateur soccer. 

- Commisso refused to answer the question "Why did the NASL fail to meet the standards that they helped define?", got verbally hostile, then suggested the press ask better questions.

- Commisso believes the NASL will get an injunction, and is prepared for "years" of deliberation.

Here's a link: https://www.patreon.com/posts/listen-nasl-call-14596704

Edited September 28, 2017 by harrycoyster

[matty]

4 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

 

- Commisso believes the NASL will get an injunction, and is prepared for "years" of deliberation.

"We're planning on fucking killing the world cup bid if we can't have nice things"

[TRM]

4 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

The hearing is on October 31st and the decision isn't due until December. I can't imagine CPL waiting that long to make the decision unless 2018 hinges entirely on FCE as team six.

the11.ca has an article on this and I'm not sure his sources (usually pretty good) but it said this:

"Meanwhile,  Edmonton co-owner Tom Fath has confirmed he has been attending meetings of the start-up Canadian Premier League, an all-Canadian “Division 1A” which has an ambitious target start date of late July, 2018. But, CanPL president Paul Beirne has said that if everything isn’t perfect to go in July, the league — which at the moment has only two confirmed teams, in Winnipeg and Hamilton — will wait till 2019 to start."

So if NASL folds he would be open to CPL but (huge BUT) only 2 teams are confirmed and they may put it off until 2019 (or 2020 etc etc).

I still haven't heard any addressing of the 800 lb gorilla in the room. Will you compete for fans in the same markets against the 3 MLS teams or not be in the 3 largest markets in Canada? 

[harrycoyster]

2 minutes ago, TRM said:

the11.ca has an article on this and I'm not sure his sources (usually pretty good) but it said this:

"Meanwhile,  Edmonton co-owner Tom Fath has confirmed he has been attending meetings of the start-up Canadian Premier League, an all-Canadian “Division 1A” which has an ambitious target start date of late July, 2018. But, CanPL president Paul Beirne has said that if everything isn’t perfect to go in July, the league — which at the moment has only two confirmed teams, in Winnipeg and Hamilton — will wait till 2019 to start."

So if NASL folds he would be open to CPL but (huge BUT) only 2 teams are confirmed and they may put it off until 2019 (or 2020 etc etc).

I still haven't heard any addressing of the 800 lb gorilla in the room. Will you compete for fans in the same markets against the 3 MLS teams or not be in the 3 largest markets in Canada? 

None of that isn't anything that we haven't heard before. It's probably correct.

It's overwhelmingly likely that the CPL isn't going near the MLS teams at launch. The closest we've heard is the rumoured Fraser Valley team, but they'd likely be 30-45 minutes from downtown Vancouver and well away from the majority of the Caps fanbase. I think the CPL starts looking at Toronto in 5 or so years. 

[TRM]

1 minute ago, harrycoyster said:

None of that isn't anything that we haven't heard before. It's probably correct.

He posted the article 5 hours ago so I thought it was new because of the NASL press conf & potential meltdown.

[matty]

17 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

...I think the CPL starts looking at Toronto in 5 or so years. 

I think they do it sooner like first 8. If you wait too long to enter the GTA you risk looking small time to sponsors, media, players and fans.

[ironcub14]

16 hours ago, matty said:

Good luck with port lands and downsview. Neither seems likely even for a pop up (downsview especially as tfc run out of there).

I highly disagree about osc being useless. Mainly because i don't see it being a Toronto team but instead a vaughn team with a Toronto name. Toronto at large isn't going to jump to a new team especially if in the burbs so in a sense looking to be a local team to a burb is a safer route for an audience than being "toronto's team".

Downsview is gigantic, I don't see the presence of TFC's training grounds precluding a pop-up there. But like I said, it's a medium to long-term outlook from me personally, and there are a dozen other potential spots for a pop-up, I don't have the energy to get into a discussion about it.

What I find more interesting is how you and BBTB keep pushing OSC, I find that highly interesting. Well, my personal take on it is that it is a terrible location that needs an incredible amount of work to make it viable in any sense, and will only appeal to those with a car. I've been to dozens of games at OSC, and my personal take is that it is an absolute terrible location for CPL, let alone USL, due to the lack of public transit, whether the team's branded Toronto or Vaughan or whatever. Very interesting the two of you keep pushing OSC.

Edited September 29, 2017 by ironcub14

[ironcub14]

17 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

The Soc Takes Podcast has posted 45 minutes from the NASL conference call about the lawsuit. It wasn't a great showing for NASL.

For those who don't have the time to listen, here are the highlights:

- NASL chairman and New York Cosmos owner Rocco B. Commisso confirms that he acted unilaterally in serving the lawsuit. The other NASL owners voted to give him permission to act on behalf of the league, but did not vote in favor of the lawsuit directly.

- Lawyers statements confirm they are primarily making the argument of conspiracy, but are also challenging US Soccer's right to involve themselves in professional soccer in general, as their charter under the Stevens Bill only mentions amateur soccer. 

- Commisso refused to answer the question "Why did the NASL fail to meet the standards that they helped define?", got verbally hostile, then suggested the press ask better questions.

- Commisso believes the NASL will get an injunction, and is prepared for "years" of deliberation.

Here's a link: https://www.patreon.com/posts/listen-nasl-call-14596704

Thanks for the highlights, great summary. Soc Takes and Nipun Chopra's been an amazing follow for these information.

Just looking at all this in the grand scheme of things, even in the best case scenario for NASL where they win this lawsuit, I mean, NASL is fighting hard against the current to survive or be relevant in 5 year's time, even in the unlikely best case scenario for them for 2017. I do know that there is so much history to all this, that NASL is incredibly complicit in all their misfortunes, but that MLS and USL had also expertly picked NASL apart from top and bottom ever since Soccer Warz was born.

My hope is that the Faths have been putting in a good word to Young and Beirne on avoiding the MLS single entity structure, and that all things are smoothly progressing towards July 2018 or March 2019 or whatever it is. It's ironic after all these months that it may be FCEd and the Fury that may be pushing for a 2018 launch more than anybody else. A vote again here for a 2019 launch though, all things considered.

[matty]

1 hour ago, ironcub14 said:

What I find more interesting is how you and BBTB keep pushing OSC, I find that highly interesting. Well, my personal take on it is that it is a terrible location that needs an incredible amount of work to make it viable in any sense, and will only appeal to those with a car. I've been to dozens of games at OSC, and my personal take is that it is an absolute terrible location for CPL, let alone USL, due to the lack of public transit, whether the team's branded Toronto or Vaughan or whatever. Very interesting the two of you keep pushing OSC.

It's a terrible location for anyone more than like 15km away I'd say. But it does have a bus route and it is near residential areas. Is it a dream location? No. But it can work for what the CPL needs to reach a Vaughan fanbase (it'll be branded Toronto likely).

In terms of work it's likely a lot less than what's needed everywhere that isn't Hamilton, Winnipeg or Edmonton.

And I think the reason BBTB and I see OSC happening is because it's controlled by OSA and not a city so costs would likely be a lot cheaper and you wouldn't have as much red tape as other locations would.

[ironcub14]

24 minutes ago, matty said:

It's a terrible location for anyone more than like 15km away I'd say. But it does have a bus route and it is near residential areas. Is it a dream location? No. But it can work for what the CPL needs to reach a Vaughan fanbase (it'll be branded Toronto likely).

In terms of work it's likely a lot less than what's needed everywhere that isn't Hamilton, Winnipeg or Edmonton.

And I think the reason BBTB and I see OSC happening is because it's controlled by OSA and not a city so costs would likely be a lot cheaper and you wouldn't have as much red tape as other locations would.

Well, I like the optimism, but you definitely would need a visionary who can bring all the marketing hype and etc to that location, it'd have to be transformed, no doubt.

I wonder how the GTA is going to play out, when the grassroots supporter base has been all about Sauga. I as a neutral think that a pop-up in Sauga or Toronto is going to get far more enthusiasm than OSC, which would dampen expectations from both the Sauga and the Toronto crowd. I get your points about the OSA, but I don't know or think it may be enough. Fun things to think about, cheers man.

[Rheo]

Possible hiccup for Saskatoon

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local-news/city-owned-downtown-land-targeted-for-development

• The City of Saskatoon report that will be considered by city council’s finance committee Monday cites high-profile properties such as the former bus barns in Caswell Hill and mostly vacant riverfront land at River Landing.

• The report is interesting in terms of what it includes as land with short-term development potential and what it does not.

• The exclusion of the city yards from the city’s short-term development list could be bad news for a group hoping to establish a professional soccer team in Saskatoon. The group behind a bid to bring a team in the embryonic Canadian Premier League to Saskatoon identified the city yards as an ideal location for a proposed $20-million stadium.

  The group wanted to build the stadium in time for the 2021 season, a special city council committee meeting heard earlier this month.

[BuzzAndSting]

3 hours ago, Rheo said:

Possible hiccup for Saskatoon

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local-news/city-owned-downtown-land-targeted-for-development

• The City of Saskatoon report that will be considered by city council’s finance committee Monday cites high-profile properties such as the former bus barns in Caswell Hill and mostly vacant riverfront land at River Landing.

• The report is interesting in terms of what it includes as land with short-term development potential and what it does not.

• The exclusion of the city yards from the city’s short-term development list could be bad news for a group hoping to establish a professional soccer team in Saskatoon. The group behind a bid to bring a team in the embryonic Canadian Premier League to Saskatoon identified the city yards as an ideal location for a proposed $20-million stadium.

  The group wanted to build the stadium in time for the 2021 season, a special city council committee meeting heard earlier this month.

Orrrrrrr, it's not on the list of short-term development land because the city has already ear marked it for a new SSS!

[CDNFootballer]

On 9/28/2017 at 11:52 AM, harrycoyster said:

The hearing is on October 31st and the decision isn't due until December. I can't imagine CPL waiting that long to make the decision unless 2018 hinges entirely on FCE as team six.

Where did you get the "decision isn't due until December" because that's not in the article. Article states at the end :

"The league expects to find out about the status of the preliminary injunction around the end of October." 

The court could actually rule on the injuction at that time if they see fit to do so according to others.

 

Hopefully it is so one way or another the CPL and FC Edmonton can make decisions on 2018.

Edited September 30, 2017 by CDNFootballer

[harrycoyster]

54 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

Where did you get the "decision isn't due until December" because that's not in the article. Article states at the end :

"The league expects to find out about the status of the preliminary injunction around the end of October." 

The court could actually rule on the injuction at that time if they see fit to do so according to others.

 

Hopefully it is so one way or another the CPL and FC Edmonton can make decisions on 2018.

I've listened to a bunch of podcasts about this over the past few days. Howler, Inverted Triangle, TYAC, and Soc Takes all released NASL lawsuit episodes, so I don't remember which one it was, but one of the hosts asked for a timeline. The lawyer said that the permanent injunction could be up to 2 years and the preliminary injunction can be up to 6 weeks, both depending on if the DOJ gets involved and how evidence driven the judge ends up being. 

The same article youjust linked to says, "Judge Margo Brodie of the U.S. District Court in Brooklyn opted to schedule a hearing on the NASL’s request for a preliminary injunction that would reinstate its second division sanctioning on October 31. The NASL had asked for a October 18 hearing, while the USSF wanted to wait until the end of November for the parties to submit their briefs and then proceed “at the Court’s convenience as soon thereafter as possible.” 

As the hearing is on the last day of October, there is little chance a decision is made in October unless the judge dismisses the case outright. I think the "The league expects to find out about the status of the preliminary injunction around the end of October." line was still working under the assumption that the court date was October 18th, and not October 31st as the judge decided on.

Edited September 30, 2017 by harrycoyster

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

So the timeline is probably a temporary injuction at the end of October that is finalized for a two year period in December. If so, FCE and CanPL only have to wait a month or so to have a pretty good idea which way the wind is blowing. The whole USSF-MLS-SUM nexus has always looked a bit dubious to me, so if I had to make a bet on this my money would be on the NASL getting their temporary injunction and there being some sort of out of court settlement between the NASL and USSF that allows them to continue at D2 for the forseeable future.

[Rheo]

Footy Soldiers pod this week  talks some Sask news and also hints that there's more public news to come soon.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Rheo

[toontownman]

On 9/29/2017 at 2:36 PM, BuzzAndSting said:

Orrrrrrr, it's not on the list of short-term development land because the city has already ear marked it for a new SSS!

I had heard that the city yards wouldn't be available for 10 years at least. They moved the busses but the rest of city yards hasn't even started to be built in the new location. The new land might not have even been purchased yet. 

Just what I heard. Doesn't mean anything hasn't been agreed before or since. 

I wouldn't mind the permanent ground at prairieland. I know that is absolutely not what the ownership group wants though. 

[Rheo]

Not a big thing but the official site has news updates showing, with a Saskatoon article, the BSB article and pushing the upcoming Footy Talks live show with PB interview.  Not sure I like them backdating the date since they weren't up there on Friday morning lol. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by Rheo

[Mike Thompson]

Can someone please explain to me why Paul Beirne wants the action to start the week after the World Cup!? Why can't it be in April/May like a normal league 

if indeed 2018 is the correct kick-off year

[Rheo]

1 minute ago, Mike Thompson said:

Can someone please explain to me why Paul Beirne wants the action to start the week after the World Cup!? Why can't it be in April/May like a normal league 

if indeed 2018 is the correct kick-off year

Not sure if it's him specifically who wants it lol but the general idea is to run a short launch season to capitalize on the momentum/media attention after the World Cup, give people a taste and then come out guns blazing for 2019.  Lots of discussion on here of the pros and cons of either start time.

[Mike Thompson]

10 minutes ago, Rheo said:Not sure if it's him specifically who wants it lol but the general idea is to run a short launch season to capitalize on the momentum/media attention after the World Cup, give people a taste and then come out guns blazing for 2019.  Lots of discussion on here of the pros and cons of either start time.

Fair enough, although I would hate for the league to start in late July / Early August 

I mean come on now! How many games are we talking about here? 10,15? 

It's a dumb ass idea 

I wish it was like this: (8 Teams)

Regular season -> 14 total matches, 7 Home and 7 Away (play against each club twice) 

*Not including potential playoffs*

Have a break for the WC, yes that's smart. 

but for players why the hell would they come to CPL if the season only last 3 months in the second half of the year? Salary wise and playing wise it doesn't make sense for them 

MLS, NASL & USL all start in March