BradMack Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 21 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: True, but Victoria appears to want to build an 8000 seat stadium that would be ideal for a Whitecaps affiliate. It's a way to make teams in smaller markets work. 15 hours ago, BradMack said: Well, I know where you're coming from, but in reality its more of a way to prop a team up, not make it "work". Making it work would be a really solid business plan and great front office staff who could attract sponsors and sell tickets and really market the team to the community. An MLS B side would be more like TFC2, which is a pro team that isn't in danger of folding, but its because MLSE is willing to suffer big losses and not really care about it. The difference is USL is a minor league and everyone accepts it, CPL isn't ready to accept that and adding teams who will get -1000 people a game isn't going to look good. 6 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: 1000 a game paid could easily still happen in some of the smaller cities under discussion regardless of the affiliate angle (markets like Sasktoon and Halifax are high risk and have less of a soccer tradition than Victoria does, and I think you are wrong to assume an MLS tie-in would automatically be a net negative in interest terms in cities of that size, the concern which I fully understand is more with the optics involved in larger NHL and CFL type markets that expect to be top tier) and if it's not drawing similar to MLS with similar on field quality of play most people outside the internet bubble will view it as the minors regardless. Its sort of like you're hand picking quotes to make it seem like I'm saying something I'm not. If you look at the whole "quote conversation" we are talking about making teams "work". Of course it is possible that any team gets 1000 people a game, and what I'm saying is those teams aren't going to work. You can't have that in any scenario, MLS B team or not. What I am saying is that It creates an automatic minor league feel if there are B teams in CPL. If you do that you aren't even giving yourself a chance, you might as well stick with USL because not only will you lose fans in the city the B team is, but also fans in every other market. Just look at the USL for example, When Ottawa plays a TFC 2 team full of kids it's laughable, thank god they had built a fanbase in NASL first. Most USL teams in the states are now marketing the move to MLS as a reason for people to come out in huge numbers "Hey fans! If enough of you come out for games mayber MLS will notice and we can get out of this stupid league!" What the CPL is doing is trying to shoot for something better than USL, and it seems like you're scared of that. To do that we need the right people in place. Get the right owners and the right people working for them and you can make almost any business work almost anywhere. That's why this has taken 4-5 years to get into place. If teams can't get it to work it's the organizations fault at this point. longlugan, m-g-williams, Bbeto and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig11rm Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 The CPL should hopefully be a good stepping stone for young Canadians to make it from USL to MLS. As MLS improves so will the CPL. Hopefully one day top CPL teams can compete with MLS though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Craig11rm said: The CPL should hopefully be a good stepping stone for young Canadians to make it from USL to MLS. As MLS improves so will the CPL. Hopefully one day top CPL teams can compete with MLS though. CPL doesn't want to be a stepping stone for MLS but it's own top league. I think young Canadians will be more excited with CPL than MLS once the league is established. Safe to say that if CPL is to be a stepping stone to something, young Canadians will dream of Europe way ahead of MLS. BuzzAndSting, Bbeto and Lofty 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 17 minutes ago, Ansem said: CPL doesn't want to be a stepping stone for MLS but it's own top league. I think young Canadians will be more excited with CPL than MLS once the league is established. Safe to say that if CPL is to be a stepping stone to something, young Canadians will dream of Europe way ahead of MLS. Exactly. We’ve seen it before, young players go to the MLS with the hopes of eventually leaving for Europe, hopefully CPL will replace MLS in that pathway. Lofty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Yeah, I would rather bright CPL talents aim higher than MLS. MLS has been making progress employing Canadian players lately, but it is still a second tier league and still has a poor record of serving players who aspire to a higher league - Larin being the most obvious case. MLS will be an option for some, but it is one league among many - and CPL organizers have definitely given the impression that they don't want some sort of subservient arrangement with MLS. BuzzAndSting and Lofty 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig11rm Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I obviously agree that a stepping stone to Europe should be the end goal. But more immediately it should help get more guys in to MLS. A lot of the guys that are being talked about as CPL bound players are guys that haven’t been able to make that jump. I think the CPL has a lot of potential, but primarily it needs to funnel talent and create depth. Kent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, Craig11rm said: I obviously agree that a stepping stone to Europe should be the end goal. But more immediately it should help get more guys in to MLS. A lot of the guys that are being talked about as CPL bound players are guys that haven’t been able to make that jump. I think the CPL has a lot of potential, but primarily it needs to funnel talent and create depth. Once the CPL is running why would a Canadian player want to play in the CPL only to go to MLS then to Europe? What would be the sense in adding another level, with another team, potentially fighting for minutes, only to turn around and try to make another move and do it all over again? dyslexic nam and Junkie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said: Once the CPL is running why would a Canadian player want to play in the CPL only to go to MLS then to Europe? What would be the sense in adding another level, with another team, potentially fighting for minutes, only to turn around and try to make another move and do it all over again? I know right?? Why not just go straight to EPL or La Liga?? Obviously any kid with that kind of talent will make a more direct path (Tabla, Millar, Tomori). But the way the CPL sounds like it will be (wages, quality of teams etc) we probably will have USL/NASL type guy (DIdic, Skyler Thomas, Kacher. Lareya, Mallan Roberts), not many that are quite good enough for MLS, let alone bigger European leagues. Look at Larin, tears up MLS, but he didnt go one of the big 4-5 European leagues. Still a step in between. And the jump from USL quality to MLS is a sharp one, not many guys we'll have in the first years of CPL will be ready to leapfrog MLS to Europe. If they were that good then they shouldnt be in the CPL. And there is nothing wrong with shooting for MLS. The way the salaries are going up and quality is improving, we'll be in a decent spot if we fill our CMNT with MLS regulars. Kent, Complete Homer and Craig11rm 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 35 minutes ago, Bison44 said: I know right?? Why not just go straight to EPL or La Liga?? Obviously any kid with that kind of talent will make a more direct path (Tabla, Millar, Tomori). But the way the CPL sounds like it will be (wages, quality of teams etc) we probably will have USL/NASL type guy (DIdic, Skyler Thomas, Kacher. Lareya, Mallan Roberts), not many that are quite good enough for MLS, let alone bigger European leagues. Look at Larin, tears up MLS, but he didnt go one of the big 4-5 European leagues. Still a step in between. And the jump from USL quality to MLS is a sharp one, not many guys we'll have in the first years of CPL will be ready to leapfrog MLS to Europe. If they were that good then they shouldnt be in the CPL. And there is nothing wrong with shooting for MLS. The way the salaries are going up and quality is improving, we'll be in a decent spot if we fill our CMNT with MLS regulars. Other than the discriminatory practices against Canadians? And contracts that are in violation of FIFA rules? And the fact that you can be traded somewhere against your will? Should I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Go on. Get it all out, you are in a safe place. ^^^^ Kent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 41 minutes ago, Bison44 said: Go on. Get it all out, you are in a safe place. ^^^^ WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 You said you could go on about MLS...go ahead get all the MLS anger out. Its bad to hold it in. I dont like MLS much myself, the idiotic roster rules, the sad PR, the terrible self serving articles on the MLS website, bleech!! Its too bad most of our pro clubs we have to cheer for are in MLS...so I am kind of stuck. As they say, "its a big Sh$t sandwich, and we all have to take a bite". Can hardly wait for CPL to start. Lofty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Bison44 said: You said you could go on about MLS...go ahead get all the MLS anger out. Its bad to hold it in. I dont like MLS much myself, the idiotic roster rules, the sad PR, the terrible self serving articles on the MLS website, bleech!! Its too bad most of our pro clubs we have to cheer for are in MLS...so I am kind of stuck. As they say, "its a big Sh$t sandwich, and we all have to take a bite". Can hardly wait for CPL to start. You seem like a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said: You seem like a dick. Your holding it in....you'll get grey hair and wrinkles that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Just now, Bison44 said: Your holding it in....you'll get grey hair and wrinkles that way. Confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Initially and for at least a few years, MLS payrolls will be higher so CPL players may make the jump there just for a higher salary. It is just another league. I hope CPL is sensible in terms of contracts to ensure they get a transfer fee when players jump to another league. Which essentially means ensuring your good players always have at least 2 years remaining on their contracts. If they won't sign a new longer contract, transfer them immediately for as much as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSabiondo Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 24 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said: You seem like a dick. He likes to incite flame wars so yes he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSabiondo Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, dsqpr said: Initially and for at least a few years, MLS payrolls will be higher so CPL players may make the jump there just for a higher salary. It is just another league. I hope CPL is sensible in terms of contracts to ensure they get a transfer fee when players jump to another league. Which essentially means ensuring your good players always have at least 2 years remaining on their contracts. If they won't sign a new longer contract, transfer them immediately for as much as you can get. Well hopefully clubs have the independence to manage their own contracts. That way a transfer fee is a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) Hmmm Starting in CPL and having minutes to improve my game with some flexibility to be creative Or Benching in MLS with some starting minutes here and there for not that big of a difference in salary (MLS salary disparity is well documented) I wonder under which set of circumstances I have better odds to prove myself, improve my game and potentially be noticed by Euro leagues... decisions, decisions, decisions... I know if I was Jordan Hamilton, I rather be a starting striker in CPL than benching and seeing Spencer eating my minutes or being sent to USL...where Euro league aren't looking. Just saying Edited March 31, 2018 by Ansem deschamp86, ted, grasshopper1917 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, dsqpr said: Initially and for at least a few years, MLS payrolls will be higher so CPL players may make the jump there just for a higher salary. It is just another league. I hope CPL is sensible in terms of contracts to ensure they get a transfer fee when players jump to another league. Which essentially means ensuring your good players always have at least 2 years remaining on their contracts. If they won't sign a new longer contract, transfer them immediately for as much as you can get. Not sure MLS bencher earn that much. Even a starter like Larin was criminally underpaid. I think Canadian players caught on. If they are starters or start enough, good... Otherwise, the bench or back and forth to USL...CPL is the better choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Bison44 said: ...I know right?But the way the CPL sounds like it will be (wages, quality of teams etc) we probably will have USL/NASL type guy (DIdic, Skyler Thomas, Kacher. Lareya, Mallan Roberts), not many that are quite good enough for MLS, let alone bigger European leagues.... Like FCE and the Fury basically in terms of rumoured budgets, and there has been no sign of players of CMNT fringe quality with both options available to them choosing that over the MLS pathway to gain playing time more easily because genuinely pro level academies that move away from pay-to-play are very expensive to operate and that's what locks players in as teenagers. Beyond that if MLS are doing things like signing Ibrahimovic while CanPL do things like signing a couple of Linfield players like Watson and Fordyce, the former will still be viewed as the major league and the latter as the minors. To be taken seriously as more than D2 would involve an investment in quality imports because the talent pool simply isn't there to do it with domestic roster content, unfortunately, and pro soccer has always been a meritocracy rather than a make work project. Edited March 31, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 On 3/30/2018 at 6:38 AM, BradMack said: I think this is actually very related. It's probable that Halifax was the team that was set to be announced, along with their stadium and this game at Wanderers Grounds. Perhaps a mixture of this news and also Canada Rugby not releasing until next week has them caught up? Overall this will be the litmus test for how big an issue the amendments made to the city council's resolution on the pop-up were. Halifax on the surface looked like a CanPL franchise announcement that could and probably should have been made as far back as last summer as soon as that went through given the 2018 soft launch was still very much in play at that point. The other big unresolved issue that has been left dangling over the proceedings since the middle of last year is the dispute the Ticats have with their city council over the exclusive pro soccer lease for THF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I will always find ridiculously hilarious any claim that the dream of a young Canadian player is to reach MLS one day. Talk about putting that league on a pedestal MrSabiondo, Junkie and BuzzAndSting 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) Where have you seen such a claim? The top clubs in a few top euro leagues that regularly play in the Champions League are "the show" that players aspire to globally in soccer terms and CanPL would change nothing in that regard. The relative pecking order of leagues in Canadian and wider CONCACAF terms will be determined by who pays more, draws bigger crowds/ratings and wins most games in CONCACAF Champions League terms. Right now the scale of investment being discussed where CanPL is concerned is a lot closer to USL than MLS. Edited March 31, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Right now the scale of investment being discussed where CanPL is concerned is a lot closer to USL than MLS. And you've seen that where? I recalled the Fury being shocked at CPL numbers of I recall correctly Edited March 31, 2018 by Ansem Alex D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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