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Canadian Premier League


ted

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9 hours ago, Coramoor said:

Canada is not an isolated country and adapted much more to the North American way of doing things, I'm not going to call it American because frankly there is no evidence our systems exist the way they do because of the US.

I am very confused by this. As I read it you are saying we do things, "the North American way" but then you say that, "there is no evidence our systems exist the way they do because of the US."

Since "North America" is only the US, Canada, and Mexico and since Mexico influences our sports and regulatory systems virtually not at all, how do you come to that conclusion?

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13 hours ago, SuperCanuck said:

I'm aware of all that, and I think you misunderstood my point or I wasn't clear enough.  As I said, our population distribution is more like Australia's than anywhere else, but they're more like us than we are, with only about 2/3 the population, they're even more spread out, yet they manage to do things we can't.  Their general population also has more pride in their own than we do which of course makes it much easier for their teams to be successful.  We could do the same things they do if we didn't need America's approval before we say "OK, I can like this now?"

I don't believe it's a case of needing "America's approval" but a case of the lack of demand for a pro league in Canada by the general public and business.  Combine the raised profile of the game in Canada in recent years with CFL owners looking for stadium dates and TSN looking for a relatively cheap content that they control and it's the right time for the formation of the league.  

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2 hours ago, ted said:

I am very confused by this. As I read it you are saying we do things, "the North American way" but then you say that, "there is no evidence our systems exist the way they do because of the US."

Since "North America" is only the US, Canada, and Mexico and since Mexico influences our sports and regulatory systems virtually not at all, how do you come to that conclusion?

I'm saying it may have been a natural adaptation on our part. The implementation of a draft in the NHL was to break up the huge advantage that Montreal had on talent.

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15 hours ago, Coramoor said:

Fuck off.

We have our own things, they just don't happen to be soccer as a professional sport(at least not yet). Canada is a hockey country, a curling country, a general winter sport country. We have the CFL which is a league and a ruleset of it's own. Canada has tons of pride in its own.

Australia is an isolated country that held onto a lot of its British heritage. Canada is not an isolated country and adapted much more to the North American way of doing things, I'm not going to call it American because frankly there is no evidence our systems exist the way they do because of the US.

Good bye.  I don't talk to people who start a conversation with "Fuck off", and I'm certainly not going to bother reading anything you've written now, nor in the future.

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5 hours ago, ted said:

I am very confused by this. As I read it you are saying we do things, "the North American way" but then you say that, "there is no evidence our systems exist the way they do because of the US."

Since "North America" is only the US, Canada, and Mexico and since Mexico influences our sports and regulatory systems virtually not at all, how do you come to that conclusion?

North America is actually from Canada to Panama.

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4 hours ago, Rheo said:

I don't believe it's a case of needing "America's approval" but a case of the lack of demand for a pro league in Canada by the general public and business.  Combine the raised profile of the game in Canada in recent years with CFL owners looking for stadium dates and TSN looking for a relatively cheap content that they control and it's the right time for the formation of the league.  

I wasn't specifying soccer.  It's everything we do.  We don't have our own professional league in any sport other than the CFL, and even that is only seven or eight teams, and many people who are gridiron fans look at it as second rate compared to the NFL.  As for the raised profile in the game (soccer) in recent years, I would put a lot of that down to the raised profile of the game in the US. 

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7 hours ago, SuperCanuck said:

I wasn't specifying soccer.  It's everything we do.  We don't have our own professional league in any sport other than the CFL, and even that is only seven or eight teams, and many people who are gridiron fans look at it as second rate compared to the NFL.  As for the raised profile in the game (soccer) in recent years, I would put a lot of that down to the raised profile of the game in the US. 

Nine teams and many do, but many don't which is why it's been around in one form or another for a century and a half. I'll agree with the second part, but mainly as a result of changing demographics in the US and the aggressive television expansion FIFA and the Premier league has pushed in North America.

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9 hours ago, -Hammer- said:

Nine teams and many do, but many don't which is why it's been around in one form or another for a century and a half. I'll agree with the second part, but mainly as a result of changing demographics in the US and the aggressive television expansion FIFA and the Premier league has pushed in North America.

There are of course lots of CFL fans, or it wouldn't still be in existence, but I can only go on my first hand experience.  I don't know anyone who's a CFL fan, but I constantly hear people talking about the NFL.    

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The raised profile of the game in the US has a lot to do with the soccer explosion in terms of kids who took up the game in the middle 1970's in great numbers due to  the influence of the old NASL and the many stars some in their prime brought over to play. Soccer by the middle 1980's in the US and even Canada was already one of the biggest sports in terms of youth registration just behind and at times surpassing the old more established sports. Those kids eventually grew up and had kids of their own too and factored  in with some of the other reasons given in the earlier posts above we now have a greater soccer profile in North America as a whole.

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20 hours ago, SuperCanuck said:

North America is actually from Canada to Panama.

LOL, not in any practical sense. South of Mexico is "Central America" especially when it comes to soccer. It is not called the North American Football Confederation, it is the Confederation of North, Central America and Caribbean Association Football.

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5 hours ago, SuperCanuck said:

There are of course lots of CFL fans, or it wouldn't still be in existence, but I can only go on my first hand experience.  I don't know anyone who's a CFL fan, but I constantly hear people talking about the NFL.    

Just curious to know what region of Canada you are from that you don't know one CFL fan.

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22 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Just curious to know what region of Canada you are from that you don't know one CFL fan.

The only CFL fan I know is my dad who watches the Roughriders as part of his nostalgia for a boyhood on the Prairies where he has not lived in 50 years.

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So since there's nothing to do other than speculate and fantasize about this league, here's a topic: salary caps

I think it's inevitable that this league will have one, but we don't have to overcomitted to parity like MLS. I suggest a system that controls costs, provides some way for successful teams to reward their fanbase with extra spending, *and* help fund poorer teams. Along these lines, a soft-cap (say 1.5M) followed by a hard cap (2.5M), where teams spending above the soft cap pay 2-3 dollars into a common fund that is dispersed around the league for every 1 dollar over the soft cap. 

Say a particularly wealthy team (say Calgary flames ownership) is willing to spend to the hard cap, it would allow them to field a 66% more expensive roster, but they would have to disperse two or three million among the remaining teams, helping sustain lower end franchises. A couple million extra might not be much to them, especially while trying to build a fan base, but it could keep smaller teams from folding or make some markets viable 

Thoughts? Hard cap too far from the soft cap? Hate all caps regardless? 

 

Edit: additional benefits could include allowing a high-end team potentially challenge anMLS team for the voyageurs cup, providing more balanced rosters for high spenders than a DP-like rule would, etc

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16 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

So since there's nothing to do other than speculate and fantasize about this league, here's a topic: salary caps

I think it's inevitable that this league will have one, but we don't have to overcomitted to parity like MLS. I suggest a system that controls costs, provides some way for successful teams to reward their fanbase with extra spending, *and* help fund poorer teams. Along these lines, a soft-cap (say 1.5M) followed by a hard cap (2.5M), where teams spending above the soft cap pay 2-3 dollars into a common fund that is dispersed around the league for every 1 dollar over the soft cap. 

Say a particularly wealthy team (say Calgary flames ownership) is willing to spend to the hard cap, it would allow them to field a 66% more expensive roster, but they would have to disperse two or three million among the remaining teams, helping sustain lower end franchises. A couple million extra might not be much to them, especially while trying to build a fan base, but it could keep smaller teams from folding or make some markets viable 

Thoughts? Hard cap too far from the soft cap? Hate all caps regardless? 

 

Edit: additional benefits could include allowing a high-end team potentially challenge anMLS team for the voyageurs cup, providing more balanced rosters for high spenders than a DP-like rule would, etc

Luxury taxes are an awful system, they're incredibly regressive as far as on the field play goes. Any rich owner who is willing to spend the money can essentially beat the system, it's even worse than the DP system when it comes to getting around a salary cap in that it means you can spread the money more evenly throughout your roster. The only way you can gain fans in the smaller markets is to convince them they have a shot to win and a system like this specifically prohibits that. Any revenue sharing scheme should be designed in such a way to keep smaller/poorer teams afloat without giving the richer teams an on field advantage

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1 minute ago, Coramoor said:

Luxury taxes are an awful system, they're incredibly regressive as far as on the field play goes. Any rich owner who is willing to spend the money can essentially beat the system, it's even worse than the DP system when it comes to getting around a salary cap in that it means you can spread the money more evenly throughout your roster. The only way you can gain fans in the smaller markets is to convince them they have a shot to win and a system like this specifically prohibits that. Any revenue sharing scheme should be designed in such a way to keep smaller/poorer teams afloat without giving the richer teams an on field advantage

But are we married to the idea of parity? Sure, 66% greater spending is probably too high (I was just throwing out round numbers), and would probably lead to a boring league where the same two teams would be winning. But say a 20% gap?

 

Maybe it's an idea for when the league is more mature,  but I wouldn't like to see the league forever tied down by the lowest spenders 

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2 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

But are we married to the idea of parity? Sure, 66% greater spending is probably too high (I was just throwing out round numbers), and would probably lead to a boring league where the same two teams would be winning. But say a 20% gap?

 

Maybe it's an idea for when the league is more mature,  but I wouldn't like to see the league forever tied down by the lowest spenders 

if you're going to do a gap of some kind, just do a floor and ceiling approach. I'm married to the idea of parity, I can't see the league working without it

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10 hours ago, ted said:

The only CFL fan I know is my dad who watches the Roughriders as part of his nostalgia for a boyhood on the Prairies where he has not lived in 50 years.

I know it's huge on The Prairies.  I'm from Vancouver.  I don't know a single BC Lions fan, and people talk about the NFL all the time.  

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Julian de Guzman is another national team player that says Canada needs its own league:

Why is it so important? It’s not just about Canada getting to Russia. It’s about Canada earning respect on the international stage. JDG says that, right now, it’s harder than ever for Canadians to find work at European clubs, because the country’s stature as a soccer nation has fallen so, so far. There are five pro teams in Canada — but even if they carried all-Canadian rosters (which they don’t come close to doing) they still don’t provide the number of professional places to give our player pool the competitive first-team minutes it needs.

“It’s pretty obvious that Canada needs its own league,” he says.

http://the11.ca/2016/03/18/jdg-mexico-match-could-change-the-future-of-canadian-soccer/

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On 18/03/2016 at 10:23 PM, longlugan said:

Me too and I can't wait for the first time there is a Hamilton - Toronto derby as passionate as the Ticat-Argo one when played here at Tim Hortons Field

If even half of the support, fun, rancor and rowdiness from the Labour Day Classic translates over, it will be a success. Also a Ti-Cat season ticket holder, but lets get back on track.

As far as a salary cap, I think it's needed, especially initially. There's not a lot of markets that the CPL can drop a team into, without issue, and there is a lot to be said about keeps costs low to appeal to owners who are millionaires and not billionaires. Going without a cap is a sure fire way to kill this league in a couple years, as I can see teams spending outside their means to try to attract fans. I think you start with a cap, with the intention that when you get to to point where you can afford to pay all your players close to six figures, with revenue from the team, that's when you can lift the cap.

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Is there any solid evidence this league is actually happening, as opposed to being something that a few influential people are pushing for? Posting a constant stream of upbeat positive posts on the internet about something like this, isn't going to change much in the big scheme of things if the numbers don't work on national broadcast and sponsorship deals. Personally think the key to a D2 Canadian setup is to work with rather than in opposition to the three MLS franchises. With their three USL teams plus Edmonton and Ottawa all you need is three ownership groups in Hamilton, Winnipeg and Calgary et voila.

Not sure that fits a CFL-centric agenda, however, given their concern would be what MLS will ultimately do to the status of their league in the three major media markets in terms of how the status of games against Saskatchewan and Hamilton are perceived by the average two-four drinker next to games against New York and LA, given beer commercials are what underpin the finances of sports broadcasts. MLS ratings are less than stellar right now, but give it a couple of decades to seep into the cultural landscape and who knows what that will do to the CFL's TSN cash cow?

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