longlugan Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Dub Narcotic said: BBtB has been right far more often than the big crowd arguing against him on here and every 'insider leak' from the Hamilton folks has been way off base so far. He's not the one who has to show humility on this thread. In addition, you can cheer for the CPL to exist while acknowledging that its current state of limbo has been a negative for Canadian soccer in the last few years. Hamilton at the very least and almost surely a couple of other cities would have been in the NASL/USL by now if it wasn't for the CPL process. So those of us with fewer posts have to show humility on here? Hmmm good to know...thanks for the heads up lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, longlugan said: So those of us with fewer posts have to show humility on here? Hmmm good to know...thanks for the heads up lmao When I joined these forums someone called me out for only having a few posts. Seniority does not make up for stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Dub Narcotic said: BBtB has been right far more often than the big crowd arguing against him What has he been right about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said: BBtB has been right far more often than the big crowd arguing against him on here and every 'insider leak' from the Hamilton folks has been way off base so far. He's not the one who has to show humility on this thread. In addition, you can cheer for the CPL to exist while acknowledging that its current state of limbo has been a negative for Canadian soccer in the last few years. Hamilton at the very least and almost surely a couple of other cities would have been in the NASL/USL by now if it wasn't for the CPL process. They are the ones that wanted to go the CPL route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillermoDelQuarto Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 9 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said: Hamilton at the very least and almost surely a couple of other cities would have been in the NASL/USL by now if it wasn't for the CPL process. This is some pretty wild speculation. Not saying I disagree, but I'd be interested to see the justification here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 It's not wild speculation for people who have been following this stuff for more than a couple of years unlike many of the most vocal posters in this thread. TFC were initially planning to put their affiliated USL B team into Hamilton at Tim Horton Field under Hamilton Lynx branding starting from 2014. http://www2.hamilton.ca/nr/rdonlyres/6394f7d5-6392-4fa5-b75f-c8983be5eb36/0/dec0253pw13095.pdf Prior to that there was also a group from Oakville that wanted to put a team into USL in Hamilton at the time of the NASL-USL split in 2011 (the London and Victoria PDL teams were also mentioning publicly that they were contemplating a similar move) but were blocked by the moratorium and had to make do with a PDL team instead after buying Hamilton's W League team. That PDL franchise later became K/W United, who also wanted to be more than a PDL team from what I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: It's not wild speculation for people who have been following this stuff for more than a couple of years unlike many of the most vocal posters in this thread. TFC were initially planning to put their affiliated USL B team into Hamilton at Tim Horton Field under Hamilton Lynx branding starting from 2014. IIRC, that was blocked by the city of Hamilton due to their preexisting relationship with the TiCats who were pursuing a team, not the CSA. But I've only been following Canadian soccer since 2000, so I should be more "humble" apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Don't see what is so amazing about any of this. Around that time the CSA had hired an ex-CMNT player called Jim Easton to look into the viability of a coast-to-coast pro league in the build up to the 2015 Women's World Cup and what they got told was that conditions weren't ripe and they should focus on D3 regional semi-pro instead. The Hamilton Lynx move by MLSE appears to have irked the Ticats sufficiently that we then got this whole CPL saga that has yet to lead anywhere concrete, but certainly fitted well with Victor Montagliani's ealier push for a domestic pro league that led to the moratorium that had blocked Canadian entries into USL Pro. Instead of a Toronto B team in Tim Horton Field we have since had all kinds of whispers from the usual suspects in blog and podcast terms about a mysterious billionaire launching a soccer team in the GTA in a Canadian Premier League to rival TFC. It will be interesting to see what happens on all of this when Victor Montagliani finally moves on to pastures new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 IIRC Toronto FC was also attempting to block any competition in the new Hamilton stadium into "their" market area. It certainly rubs fans in Hamilton the wrong way when a team in a Toronto market tries to minimize sport development in Hamilton a la Toronto Maple Leafs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Hamilton rejected usl in 2014 because they felt it wasn't a big enough draw or high enough level iirc. They were open to nasl weren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 My understanding is that the initial Memorandum of Understanding with the City of Hamilton on building a new stadium for the PanAm games with the Ticats called for a pro soccer franchise to be secured by December 2012. By the time MLSE made the move to start the Hamilton Lynx for the 2014 season, the Ticats had arguably already failed to live up to their obligations on that. Over four years on again and all we still have on any of this is a lot of talk and very little action. If Edmonton and Ottawa were solidly on board there would definitely be light at the end of the tunnel, but with only Halifax making any noise publicly about wanting to launch a team alongside the core Hamilton franchise, it all looks very dubious when you are not emotionally invested in a yet to be announced team. http://www.xtratime.org/forum/100-canadian-soccer/91253-new-stadium-works-hamilton-2.html#post10365986 The Hamilton Tiger-Cats have missed a deadline to land a professional soccer team for the city’s new stadium. A memorandum of understanding with the city says the Tiger-Cats will run a professional soccer team in the $119-million stadium being built to replace Ivor Wynne in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games. The memorandum (MOU), signed in 2011, also says the CFL team had until the end of December 2012 to land a soccer franchise. After that date, the city is free to pursue its own tenant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 16 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said: BBtB has been right far more often than the big crowd arguing against him on here and every 'insider leak' from the Hamilton folks has been way off base so far. He's not the one who has to show humility on this thread. In addition, you can cheer for the CPL to exist while acknowledging that its current state of limbo has been a negative for Canadian soccer in the last few years. Hamilton at the very least and almost surely a couple of other cities would have been in the NASL/USL by now if it wasn't for the CPL process. Possibly but myself and many of the other Hamilton folks would much prefer our own league as opposed to another American league run by Americans who force their rules upon us! Many of us have tired of MLS and their anti Canadian bullshit and would prefer to start a grass roots Canadian league with local players, coaches, owners and management, the NASL/USL option would certainly not have provided that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 1 minute ago, gator said: ...Many of us have tired of MLS and their anti Canadian bullshit and would prefer to start a grass roots Canadian league with local players, coaches, owners and management... Is that what the Ticats are really pushing in all of this? Talk of an 8000 break even and a domestic quota of 3 or 4 Canadian players suggests that they are more intent on taking on TFC and MLS as equals rather than pushing a grassroots strategy that would inherently be viewed as lower tier and secondary to TFC. With a lower budget grassroots strategy that would be a good fit for PDL type ownership groups something would probably already be in place by now and they wouldn't be almost 5 years late in living up to their MoU commitments where soccer is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 42 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Is that what the Ticats are really pushing in all of this? Talk of an 8000 break even and a domestic quota of 3 or 4 Canadian players suggests that they are more intent on taking on TFC and MLS as equals rather than pushing a grassroots strategy that would inherently be viewed as lower tier and secondary to TFC. With a lower budget grassroots strategy that would be a good fit for PDL type ownership groups something would probably already be in place by now and they wouldn't be almost 5 years late in living up to their MoU commitments where soccer is concerned. 8000 may be optimistic at the start, who knows, those surely aren't numbers that imply this league expects to go head to head with MLS at this point! Having been involved in Hamilton soccer for decades I can assure you a PDL/USL franchise wouldn't draw flies in The Hammer, something built from the ground up with local content and playing in a new Canadian league will have a chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: It's not wild speculation for people who have been following this stuff for more than a couple of years unlike many of the most vocal posters in this thread. TFC were initially planning to put their affiliated USL B team into Hamilton at Tim Horton Field under Hamilton Lynx branding starting from 2014. http://www2.hamilton.ca/nr/rdonlyres/6394f7d5-6392-4fa5-b75f-c8983be5eb36/0/dec0253pw13095.pdf Prior to that there was also a group from Oakville that wanted to put a team into USL in Hamilton at the time of the NASL-USL split in 2011 (the London and Victoria PDL teams were also mentioning publicly that they were contemplating a similar move) but were blocked by the moratorium and had to make do with a PDL team instead after buying Hamilton's W League team. That PDL franchise later became K/W United, who also wanted to be more than a PDL team from what I understand. Yeah, and anyone with half a brain knew it was an attempt to quell competition in the GTA/Hamilton market. K/W United wants (not wanted), wants to be more than a PDL team, and the evidence points towards them wanting to join the CPL. 2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Don't see what is so amazing about any of this. Around that time the CSA had hired an ex-CMNT player called Jim Easton to look into the viability of a coast-to-coast pro league in the build up to the 2015 Women's World Cup and what they got told was that conditions weren't ripe and they should focus on D3 regional semi-pro instead. The Hamilton Lynx move by MLSE appears to have irked the Ticats sufficiently that we then got this whole CPL saga that has yet to lead anywhere concrete, but certainly fitted well with Victor Montagliani's ealier push for a domestic pro league that led to the moratorium that had blocked Canadian entries into USL Pro. Instead of a Toronto B team in Tim Horton Field we have since had all kinds of whispers from the usual suspects in blog and podcast terms about a mysterious billionaire launching a soccer team in the GTA in a Canadian Premier League to rival TFC. It will be interesting to see what happens on all of this when Victor Montagliani finally moves on to pastures new. So what? TFC put its B team in Vaughan instead. You're acting like we lost something by not having MLSE monopolize our market in the most bull shit way. This way, we can have an ambitious professional club in Hamilton and have a TFC B team instead of just the latter which you apparently think would have been better for us. 2 hours ago, matty said: Hamilton rejected usl in 2014 because they felt it wasn't a big enough draw or high enough level iirc. They were open to nasl weren't they? Yes. BBTB's asinine argument fails on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Is that what the Ticats are really pushing in all of this? Talk of an 8000 break even and a domestic quota of 3 or 4 Canadian players suggests that they are more intent on taking on TFC and MLS as equals rather than pushing a grassroots strategy that would inherently be viewed as lower tier and secondary to TFC. With a lower budget grassroots strategy that would be a good fit for PDL type ownership groups something would probably already be in place by now and they wouldn't be almost 5 years late in living up to their MoU commitments where soccer is concerned You have to view yourself as lower tier to have a grassroots strategy? I thought Hamilton reaching out to various youth soccer groups, stakeholders and businesses throughout its city are more vital for pushing a grassroots strategy plan than whether it views itself as an equal to its competition or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longlugan Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Macksam said: Yeah, and anyone with half a brain knew it was an attempt to quell competition in the GTA/Hamilton market. K/W United wants (not wanted), wants to be more than a PDL team, and the evidence points towards them wanting to join the CPL. So what? TFC put its B team in Vaughan instead. You're acting like we lost something by not having MLSE monopolize our market in the most bull shit way. This way, we can have an ambitious professional club in Hamilton and have a TFC B team instead of just the latter which you apparently think would have been better for us. Yes. BBTB's asinine argument fails on so many levels. What bothers me most about his posts is that they are now bordering on trolling...I said before he should start his own Made in USA thread but he keeps posting here with the sole purpose of annoying anyone that believes the CanPL is the right route to take to further develop young Canadian players. And yes I understand I don't have nearly as many posts on here as he does but I've been passionately following Canadian soccer in all it's forms since the seventies so BBtB can humbly kiss my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 2 hours ago, longlugan said: What bothers me most about his posts is that they are now bordering on trolling...I said before he should start his own Made in USA thread but he keeps posting here with the sole purpose of annoying anyone that believes the CanPL is the right route to take to further develop young Canadian players. And yes I understand I don't have nearly as many posts on here as he does but I've been passionately following Canadian soccer in all it's forms since the seventies so BBtB can humbly kiss my ass. Oh no doubt about any of that. The funny thing is I think BBTB probably has a lot of redeeming qualities if one were to meet him in person. It's just that his viewpoint is very narrow, which causes his perception to be misguided on things. A great example of this is that he loves to mention how things are not different today than they were in the 70s and 80s with Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto being the only cities that can support soccer well, and he uses this reason why soccer won't fly anywhere else in the country beyond a couple thousand supporters because the country is still the same as the 70s, which is complete foolish bull shit. First of all, The Blizzard/Metros Croatia never had phenomenal support at anytime during its existence. There average attendance was always less than half of what TFC gets, which shows things have changed quite a bit from then. To further compound that, the Edmonton Drillers averaged better attendance than Toronto some years. It's just complete simple minded, weak arguments he likes to use that hold no weight what so ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 4 hours ago, longlugan said: What bothers me most about his posts is that they are now bordering on trolling...I said before he should start his own Made in USA thread but he keeps posting here with the sole purpose of annoying anyone that believes the CanPL is the right route to take to further develop young Canadian players. And yes I understand I don't have nearly as many posts on here as he does but I've been passionately following Canadian soccer in all it's forms since the seventies so BBtB can humbly kiss my ass. I'm sorry, since when are Voyageurs post filtered for only one type of bias. There's always going to be two sides for any discussion on CPL, MLS, NASL, etc. Whether you like it or not, you can respond or ignore. In the end we're all passionate of Canadian Futbol, some more than others. Also we have been following the league news for eons and everytimt its the same startup message, same rich investors new, same promises to build franchises and then hits a road block and we wash our hands, until some other snake oilman comes along and regurgitates. This latest venture is not something radically new that we haven't heard, studied or tried, but seems people never learn from the past mistakes and repeat ad nauseum. Same with the MNT results. I've become a realist and know that we'll have a real shot in 2026 or longer, not 2006, 2010, 2014 or 2018 like everyone on this boards wants to believe. For every year we've held futbol back here, it takes almost twice as long to cover the time lost and make up for it through academies, infrastructure, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondium Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grande Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Rabbit season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, grande said: Rabbit season. Duck season! You big dumb idiot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 32 minutes ago, Alex D said: Duck season! You big dumb idiot! I have two thousand years of hunting experience and it's rabbit season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 48 minutes ago, Alex D said: Duck season! You big dumb idiot! Oh my god Jericho is a voyageur! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 31 minutes ago, matty said: Oh my god Jericho is a voyageur! Drink it in baby!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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