Alex D Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I can't wait until we can all share a drink after a CPL match next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I know this will be said to be part of the vast conspiracy that the league won't happen but our friend shared the article on twitter from the Spectator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 The idea that only one side's argument is influenced by an emotional attachment to their position is pretty rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillermoDelQuarto Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 9 hours ago, Rheo said: I know this will be said to be part of the vast conspiracy that the league won't happen but our friend shared the article on twitter from the Spectator Meanwhile, what was actually argued was that the NASL not folding at the end of 2016, which would have left FC Edmonton with no place to play, was the big problem for a 2018 CPL launch rather than some vast conspiracy, but who needs to actually address the points that are being made when you can build a strawman or post a meme. No Edmonton (along with no Vancouver due to MLS competition and no Victoria as there is no suitable stadium readily available) makes a western conference very difficult to put together, because only Calgary and Winnipeg are left as reasonably-sized markets with no MLS team. In a similar way in the east, no Ottawa, if they are allowed to stay in USL contrary to what Duane Rollins was claiming now that they are the Impact's affiliate, along with the GTA and Montreal being highly problematic due to competition with MLS and stadium related reasons, would severely limit the viable options for an 8000 break even type league that is expecting to be taken seriously as a D1. After Hamilton and Halifax, you are pretty much left with Quebec City, K/W and London, but the moment you start using the latter two in combination with Halifax and Quebec City it starts to look more than a little bit bush league to broadcasters and sponsors, which is probably why London and K/W don't even rate a mention in the Spectator article despite K/W United's known interest in the league, and why even Halifax gets mentioned as an afterthought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper1917 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 28 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: No Edmonton (along with no Vancouver due to MLS competition and no Victoria as there is no suitable stadium) makes a western conference very difficult to put together, because only Calgary and Winnipeg are left as reasonably-sized markets with no MLS team. Im not 100% sure the good folks in Regina would agree with that statement. Considering they lead the CFL in attendance almost every year I feel they should be taken very serious. Also Saskatoon is a decent sized city - I would not totally rule them out either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 43 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Meanwhile, what was actually argued was that the NASL not folding at the end of 2016, which would have left FC Edmonton with no place to play, was the big problem for a 2018 CPL launch rather than some vast conspiracy, but who needs to actually address the points that are being made when you can build a strawman or post a meme. No Edmonton (along with no Vancouver due to MLS competition and no Victoria as there is no suitable stadium readily available) makes a western conference very difficult to put together, because only Calgary and Winnipeg are left as reasonably-sized markets with no MLS team. In a similar way in the east, no Ottawa, if they are allowed to stay in USL contrary to what Duane Rollins was claiming now that they are the Impact's affiliate, along with the GTA and Montreal being highly problematic due to competition with MLS and stadium related reasons, would severely limit the viable options for an 8000 break even type league that is expecting to be taken seriously as a D1. After Hamilton and Halifax, you are pretty much left with Quebec City, K/W and London, but the moment you start using the latter two in combination with Halifax and Quebec City it starts to look more than a little bit bush league to broadcasters and sponsors, which is probably why London and K/W don't even rate a mention in the Spectator article despite K/W United's known interest in the league, and why even Halifax gets mentioned as an afterthought. Relax BBTB, I was just teasing. I've said what I've had to say the other day and don't feel the need to keep it going This doesn't have to be life and death. We can try to have some fun. I apologize that it came across that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Meanwhile, what was actually argued was that the NASL not folding at the end of 2016, which would have left FC Edmonton with no place to play, was the big problem for a 2018 CPL launch rather than some vast conspiracy, but who needs to actually address the points that are being made when you can build a strawman or post a meme. No Edmonton (along with no Vancouver due to MLS competition and no Victoria as there is no suitable stadium readily available) makes a western conference very difficult to put together, because only Calgary and Winnipeg are left as reasonably-sized markets with no MLS team. In a similar way in the east, no Ottawa, if they are allowed to stay in USL contrary to what Duane Rollins was claiming now that they are the Impact's affiliate, along with the GTA and Montreal being highly problematic due to competition with MLS and stadium related reasons, would severely limit the viable options for an 8000 break even type league that is expecting to be taken seriously as a D1. After Hamilton and Halifax, you are pretty much left with Quebec City, K/W and London, but the moment you start using the latter two in combination with Halifax and Quebec City it starts to look more than a little bit bush league to broadcasters and sponsors, which is probably why London and K/W don't even rate a mention in the Spectator article despite K/W United's known interest in the league, and why even Halifax gets mentioned as an afterthought. You're betting on the folding of the nasl being key to cpl in 2018 is conspiratorial. The cpl has been in the works for years and 2018 start was floated well before rayo blew up, ottawa and tampa jumped and nyc nearly died. Ottawa's jump shocked everyone including csa it seems and rayookc died with rayo being religated in may which was another shock. The csa could not have been betting on it. Could it have helped yea but they could not of bet on it and i doubt they wanted it to happen. I think conferences are off the table with 6 teams as do many. Nice erasing regina again. You think so heavy in terms of usa that you ignore what is a key canadian market out west. Stop saying it's 8000 to break even. We know that's on the high end of estimates and what halifax is saying they'll cap their stadium at so it's safe to say they need under 8k to break even for attendance. Also we've been told this will not be a league dependent on attendance by vic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Regina has a metro population of 236,000 and no recent history worth mentioning where soccer is concerned, because it missed out on the post-WWII immigration wave that makes soccer more popular than the CFL in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver in a way that it definitely isn't in the Prairie provinces where the reverse is very much the case. Ambitions would need to be downscaled considerably before either of the cities in Saskatchewan would be a realistic market for pro soccer. The problem is that most of the core markets where the approach envisaged by the Ticats is likely to be viable (that we have been told a lot more recently than the comment from Victor Montagliani that you like to bring up envisages a break even in 6,000 to 8,000 range) and that would be needed to be taken seriously as a D1 product by broadcasters and sponsors are already taken by other leagues. The soccer franchises in two of those five missing cities could easily have wound up with no league to play in at the end of 2016 because of actions taken by USL and MLS that started to unfold as far back as early 2015 in terms of when Minnesota and Miami (the bullet that the NASL have dodged so far) got awarded an MLS franchise either in full or provisionally and when the USL made its move for D2 status. I'd be amazed if that scenario didn't enter into the thinking of Victor Montagliani and the Ticats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Regina has a metro population of 236,000 and no recent history worth mentioning where soccer is concerned, because it missed out on the post-WWII immigration wave that makes soccer more popular than the CFL in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver in a way that it definitely isn't in the Prairie provinces where the reverse is very much the case. Ambitions would need to be downscaled considerably before either of the cities in Saskatchewan would be a realistic market for pro soccer. "Remember how regina went on record wanting soccer and their mayor saw it as an nasl market? Remember how mainstream press mention regina as a strong candidate for cpl? What idiots am i right?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 The Halifax owners and Beirne are hosting an information night in Halifax on the 30th. Looks like anyone is welcome https://www.facebook.com/events/688156881386069/?ti=as While I suspect they won't be super forthcoming with info, I bet we'll get a better feel for the 2018 vs 2019 likelihood. I believe SEA put an April 1 deadline on themselves if 2018 was going to work for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Can't wait to see how this gets spun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 6 hours ago, Complete Homer said: The Halifax owners and Beirne are hosting an information night in Halifax on the 30th. Looks like anyone is welcome https://www.facebook.com/events/688156881386069/?ti=as While I suspect they won't be super forthcoming with info, I bet we'll get a better feel for the 2018 vs 2019 likelihood. I believe SEA put an April 1 deadline on themselves if 2018 was going to work for them? I think theu just said spring and people added with mcgraine's 90 days talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 On 3/19/2017 at 9:45 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said: My understanding is that the initial Memorandum of Understanding with the City of Hamilton on building a new stadium for the PanAm games with the Ticats called for a pro soccer franchise to be secured by December 2012. By the time MLSE made the move to start the Hamilton Lynx for the 2014 season, the Ticats had arguably already failed to live up to their obligations on that. Over four years on again and all we still have on any of this is a lot of talk and very little action. If Edmonton and Ottawa were solidly on board there would definitely be light at the end of the tunnel, but with only Halifax making any noise publicly about wanting to launch a team alongside the core Hamilton franchise, it all looks very dubious when you are not emotionally invested in a yet to be announced team. http://www.xtratime.org/forum/100-canadian-soccer/91253-new-stadium-works-hamilton-2.html#post10365986 The Hamilton Tiger-Cats have missed a deadline to land a professional soccer team for the city’s new stadium. A memorandum of understanding with the city says the Tiger-Cats will run a professional soccer team in the $119-million stadium being built to replace Ivor Wynne in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games. The memorandum (MOU), signed in 2011, also says the CFL team had until the end of December 2012 to land a soccer franchise. After that date, the city is free to pursue its own tenant... Some of your details are incorrect or absent. You are correct about the MoE, it was around that time and the Ti-Cats had a MoE agreement with the NASL for the region for an expansion franchise. However then the NASL got hit with the traffic scandal and looked like it was going to collapse in on itself (and it still might). What's missing is at a later date, when the Ti-Cats and the city had actually worked out a lease agreement, they were given until 2016 to field a team from my understanding, which was later extended to 2017. Frankly.it wouldn't have made a lot of sense for the Ti-Cats to have fielded a soccer team BEFORE the 2015 Pan-Am games had actually occurred. It was later extended to 2017 from my understanding, but really it's a moot point now. The city's stance on Tim Hortons Field at this point has pretty much been "We aren't making any improvements to the site, or talking with anyone but the Ti-Cats until the build deficiencies and litigation is addressed." Second, apart from the fact that MLSE's soccer attempt was an overwhelmingly transparent attempt to lock down any potential competition for TFC, the city council rejected it, not only because they didn't want to further damage their relationship with the Ti-Cats (which was already strained after the stadium debate) but also because MLSE didn't provide enough details for the city, and hadn't even yet received approval from the CSA to join the USL. It was very clear this was a longshot attempt to lockdown soccer rights at Tim Hortons Field and prevent future NASL expansion (of which the MLS/USL has been VERY bullish on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Soccer Today with Rollins and Laramee go over the story from Hamilton Spectator on today's pod. Couple of things they pointed out (to be taken with a grain of salt) -most "concrete" mainstream reporting that it was happening -FIFA approved as the premier league of Canada -Rollin's has had trouble confirming Regina ownership in the past so he was encouraged they were listed -They liked the strong wording in response to Manning's quotes on the league and Toronto. -Doesn't like the lack of annoucement date, it's been "soon" for a long time -Talked about the jobs created by the league in the management side and the trickle down effect it would most likely have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper1917 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 6 hours ago, Complete Homer said: The Halifax owners and Beirne are hosting an information night in Halifax on the 30th. Looks like anyone is welcome https://www.facebook.com/events/688156881386069/?ti=as While I suspect they won't be super forthcoming with info, I bet we'll get a better feel for the 2018 vs 2019 likelihood. I believe SEA put an April 1 deadline on themselves if 2018 was going to work for them? At our last meeting the rep from SEA actually said we should not expect to hear anything until some time in April at the earliest. I got the impression that the league did not want to announce anything til all 'T were crossed and I's dotted. That way when the announcement was made everyone would be hitting the ground running A few of the guys in our supporters group seem to think that 2018 is still on the table. Otherwise why would SEA be giving a big presentation in March 2017 if a team was not going to start til 2019? Seems like a reasonable line of thought. My personal feeling is that while 2018 is not a 100% lock it is still on the table and is still the goal. PS Did BBTB really suggest a city that draws 31,000 people every game for the CFL would no way be able to draw 6,000 to watch soccer? I dont think it would be crazy to think a Regina CPL team could draw 20% of what the Riders do on a consistent basis. Especially if the Riders were behind the marketing - they do a great job of marketing their CFL team. Lets have some love here for Saskatchewan its a great place we really need to stop underestimating them. They have a great community and sporting spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 5 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said: PS Did BBTB really suggest a city that draws 31,000 people every game for the CFL would no way be able to draw 6,000 to watch soccer? I dont think it would be crazy to think a Regina CPL team could draw 20% of what the Riders do on a consistent basis. Especially if the Riders were behind the marketing - they do a great job of marketing their CFL team. Lets have some love here for Saskatchewan its a great place we really need to stop underestimating them. They have a great community and sporting spirit. The roughriders seem 50/50 at this point tobe owners but the city totally appears to be and wants to be involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, matty said: The roughriders seem 50/50 at this point tobe owners but the city totally appears to be and wants to be involved. I think the "not the roughriders" thing was started by Rod Pederson reporting on an interview with Simon Fudge on the topic, but both Fudge and a V who heard the interview (Rob?) said they didn't actually say it wasn't the Roughriders. Regardless, while it seems difficult to have community-owned teams as part of a startup, their profitability and known CFL involvement to me makes the Regina group the Roughriders until shown otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 https://twitter.com/4totera/status/843952511744729090 Interview with Montagliani tonight apparently. Skeptical we get anything real but worth checking out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, matty said: The roughriders seem 50/50 at this point tobe owners but the city totally appears to be and wants to be involved. Curious as to where you're getting this from as I've not been able to confirm a single person in the city who has ever heard of the impending CanPL (except for fellow Voyageurs and people that I have personally told). That doesn't mean that there aren't folks that are involved, but they are either telling me that they're not involved when they actually are, or I am talking to the wrong people. Since it's come up again, I'll reiterate some things about Regina. I'm not sure there is any real comparison to be drawn between the Riders phenomenon and a professional soccer team. The Riders fan base has been long term 'dyed in the wool' to so many people in this province and people drive in large numbers from hours away to go to games. It is unique and fairly separate from the entire rest of the SK sporting community. I don't think there's any chance that a pro soccer team could replicate this kind of following. I think a much more sensible comparison to make would be what's happening with the Rush lacrosse team in Saskatoon. They have really caught on, are selling out games, and have people very excited. Could a soccer team emulate that kind of thing in Regina? It's not completely unreasonable. I guess what I'm saying is that invoking the Riders as indicative of anything is a mistake as far as I'm concerned. However, pointing to other facts - The Rush lacrosse team, the fact that The Pats are drawing really well when they win, the growing and youthful population that Regina has now compared to the sleepy government town it was 20 years ago, the revitalization of the downtown, the influx of new migration especially from overseas, the fact that despite the current economic downturn there are a lot of people in Regina with a decent amount of disposable cash, the fact that soccer has been growing in popularity with youth and especially with more and more teams in the adult leagues (not to mention that it is much more visible on TV etc) - these are all things that make a case for Regina despite its smaller population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 5 hours ago, rob.notenboom said: Curious as to where you're getting this from as I've not been able to confirm a single person in the city who has ever heard of the impending CanPL (except for fellow Voyageurs and people that I have personally told). That doesn't mean that there aren't folks that are involved, but they are either telling me that they're not involved when they actually are, or I am talking to the wrong people. Since it's come up again, I'll reiterate some things about Regina. I'm not sure there is any real comparison to be drawn between the Riders phenomenon and a professional soccer team. The Riders fan base has been long term 'dyed in the wool' to so many people in this province and people drive in large numbers from hours away to go to games. It is unique and fairly separate from the entire rest of the SK sporting community. I don't think there's any chance that a pro soccer team could replicate this kind of following. I think a much more sensible comparison to make would be what's happening with the Rush lacrosse team in Saskatoon. They have really caught on, are selling out games, and have people very excited. Could a soccer team emulate that kind of thing in Regina? It's not completely unreasonable. I guess what I'm saying is that invoking the Riders as indicative of anything is a mistake as far as I'm concerned. However, pointing to other facts - The Rush lacrosse team, the fact that The Pats are drawing really well when they win, the growing and youthful population that Regina has now compared to the sleepy government town it was 20 years ago, the revitalization of the downtown, the influx of new migration especially from overseas, the fact that despite the current economic downturn there are a lot of people in Regina with a decent amount of disposable cash, the fact that soccer has been growing in popularity with youth and especially with more and more teams in the adult leagues (not to mention that it is much more visible on TV etc) - these are all things that make a case for Regina despite its smaller population. There's been several reports of government officials that have said they would like to bring soccer in from mayors to council. I prehaps am acting a bit brash saying they want cpl but it's safe to say there's a big interest in soccer there from government and it's likely cpl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, Complete Homer said: https://twitter.com/4totera/status/843952511744729090 Interview with Montagliani tonight apparently. Skeptical we get anything real but worth checking out Beat me too it lol. I want to watch but Raw is on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, matty said: There's been several reports of government officials that have said they would like to bring soccer in from mayors to council. I prehaps am acting a bit brash saying they want cpl but it's safe to say there's a big interest in soccer there from government and it's likely cpl Do you recall who and where you heard? Besides former mayor Pat Fiacco mentioning the desire to bring in an NASL team, I'm not really aware of any others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Damn he has OZ on as well. Big show for Totera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, matty said: There's been several reports of government officials that have said they would like to bring soccer in from mayors to council. I prehaps am acting a bit brash saying they want cpl but it's safe to say there's a big interest in soccer there from government and it's likely cpl Do you recall who and where you heard? Besides former mayor Pat Fiacco mentioning the desire to bring in an NASL team, I'm not really aware of any others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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