jpg75 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Another issue IMO is what exactly are CSA's goals with the national team? Does it have any hard targets to achieve. ie Achieve top 40 ranking in FIFA standings. Win a Gold Cup in by year X. Become the 3rd best team in Concaf based on fifa rankings? Qualify for World Cup routinely? This. Someone brought up Project 2010 in this or another thread and that is exactly the type of standard that needs to be set - obviously not us winning the world cup, but a substantial set of short, medium and long-term goals needs to be set. Of course, this would be measurable and would lead to accountability and would put some people's jobs at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reme90 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 When the USA announced project 2010 it was a ridiculous goal as well. The point is to try and shoot for the stars because even if you miss you end up landing on the moon. Why shouldn't we aim for winning the World Cup, are Canadian kids any different than any World Cup winning country? The answer is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpg_29 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 This. Someone brought up Project 2010 in this or another thread and that is exactly the type of standard that needs to be set - obviously not us winning the world cup, but a substantial set of short, medium and long-term goals needs to be set. Of course, this would be measurable and would lead to accountability and would put some people's jobs at risk. Exactly. I think I heard Floro mumble something about getting to the quarters or semis in the Gold Cup but what are the CSA's actual specific goals for the team? The problem with not having hard targets and goals is that there is nothing to aim for and no accountability if you don't get the results. You end up in a perpetual stage of mediocrity and the favorite excuse for sports team managers to use is "rebuilding phase". Canada national soccer team has been "rebuilding" forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Getting main stream media attention. Glad that tim and sid care about the program. Getting the discussion out there in front of a national audience is a good thing. http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/canada-soccer-concacaf-gold-cup-pan-am-games-womens-mens-team/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Exactly. I think I heard Floro mumble something about getting to the quarters or semis in the Gold Cup but what are the CSA's actual specific goals for the team? The problem with not having hard targets and goals is that there is nothing to aim for and no accountability if you don't get the results. You end up in a perpetual stage of mediocrity and the favorite excuse for sports team managers to use is "rebuilding phase". Canada national soccer team has been "rebuilding" forever. Glad to read this, as it is exactly what I think and keep saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 This makes absolutely no sense: "Should we continue to support the team as fans? Absolutely. Our support should never waiver. Never. But hope? It’s time to try hopelessness." So we should support but not hope? That's like practicing a religion and not believing in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramoor Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I don't get it, Larin doesn't miss, we qualify for the quarters. The only thing the team I saw was missing was clinical finishing, which is status quo for Canada true enough but still. If we developed someone, maybe Larin, Hamilton, Clarke, Babouli, some kid who we don't know yet, who finished at the level of a guy like Koovermans most of the problems go away. The style isn't pretty but the chances do happen but nobody is finishing, whether it's Larin's miss or Ricketts' shot right at the keeper, the oppourunities are there and with a proper defensive system, 1 goal is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Different Perspective Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Benito Floro is the Peter Horachek of CONCACAF Coaches. While he is very proud of his defensive formation - as many have pointed out, this is not why he was brought in. Zero goals seems to be a constant Canadian refrain and with it brings apathy from all quarters. The fact that Floro's approach is being derided in other parts of North America and his "Bunker Mentality" is not good for Canadian soccer - be it in the past, now or in the future. If Trinidad with its starless line-up can score four goals against Mexico in a thrilling contest that would enamour all Voyageur fans if it were us, there is no reason Floro to take a defeatist, defensive posture with his gameplanning. If something does not change, then we may not make it through the next WCQ round and then Benito will be finito. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 I don't get it, Larin doesn't miss, we qualify for the quarters. The only thing the team I saw was missing was clinical finishing, which is status quo for Canada true enough but still. If we developed someone, maybe Larin, Hamilton, Clarke, Babouli, some kid who we don't know yet, who finished at the level of a guy like Koovermans most of the problems go away. The style isn't pretty but the chances do happen but nobody is finishing, whether it's Larin's miss or Ricketts' shot right at the keeper, the oppourunities are there and with a proper defensive system, 1 goal is enough. Depends which game you watch. Costa Rica they looked pretty competent. If all you remember from El Salvador was Larin having a chance and missing, then you would be showing pretty selective memory. First touch was horrible, they didn't play through the midfield, the chances were few, and they kept miscontrolling the ball out of bounds. They played horribly in my opinion. Certainly wasn't just missing clinical finishing as the only problem in THAT game. Every game they improved slightly. But then, that's part of the problem, is that they play too much to the level of the competition at times. Frankly El Salvador didn't look like soccer geniuses that game either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramoor Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Depends which game you watch. Costa Rica they looked pretty competent. If all you remember from El Salvador was Larin having a chance and missing, then you would be showing pretty selective memory. First touch was horrible, they didn't play through the midfield, the chances were few, and they kept miscontrolling the ball out of bounds. They played horribly in my opinion. Certainly wasn't just missing clinical finishing as the only problem in THAT game. Every game they improved slightly. But then, that's part of the problem, is that they play too much to the level of the competition at times. Frankly El Salvador didn't look like soccer geniuses that game either. I don't disagree that the on the ball play was absymal in the first game but the formation, the defensive organization and the fact that Canada had the Larin chance should've been enough to win it. It wasn't pretty but it could've/should've worked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I don't disagree that the on the ball play was absymal in the first game but the formation, the defensive organization and the fact that Canada had the Larin chance should've been enough to win it. It wasn't pretty but it could've/should've worked Larin had a miss. El salvador also had plenty of goal scoring chances that they missed. They out shot us. We also just as easily couldve/ shouldve lost. The formation was a mistake with bekker piette and straith providing little service to our 3 forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramoor Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Larin had a miss. El salvador also had plenty of goal scoring chances that they missed. They out shot us. We also just as easily couldve/ shouldve lost. The formation was a mistake with bekker piette and straith providing little service to our 3 forwards. Aside from one good shot after a player faked out Edgar, I don't remember a single quality chance. That may be misremember however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Having good defensive organization is important. If he can coach the players that actually can dribble and pass to also be defensively organized, without sacrificing their creativity (ideas) then we can have more offense AND be defensively organized. Continually choosing players that have no technique on the ball means we get less chances. Larin's was the only clear cut chance I even remember having against El Salvador, and El Salvador is not that great of a team. (Edit: 2 new replies added as I was typing this, so I see that you noticed the same, Coramoor) The players that can pass and dribble are just as capable of the workrate for the most part. So why play the players that can't? How many more chances can we generate with players that are more proficient on the ball? How many more will be quality? I've said it before, the tactics are fine. To be a good coach, get the right players to buy into those tactics and maybe we can get some offense with that defense. And then play those players. I still think it's an absolute myth that some of these guys are necessarily better in defense. That said, we need more guys that can finish not JUST in the striker position, but every position. Otherwise the one or two guys that can actually put a ball in the net will always be double teamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 At the start of the Gold Cup I was hopeful that at most, we surprise a few people, reach our goal of getting past first round, AND scoring some goals. With this exit, I've resigned myself to the following: (1) We are confirming our FIFA ranking. Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica, and Panama have progressed. We regressed. (2) Our players are not that good. But some are very promising (Larin,Akindele, Osorio, Teibert), and some are solid (Jakovic, Edgar). (3) We have a long way to go, to play a good complete match. Floro needs to schedule camp and get lots of friendlies to refine our transition offence (we don't have one, really.). But the Costa Rica match produced a more attractive display in many instances. I'm okay with that. (4) The only thing we should expect is effort from our players. Expecting great execution will only bring disappointment. I'm not leaving the Floro bandwagon, as I don't know anyone who is better suited to transform this team in a short time frame. We tried Hart, Mitchell, Yallop, Fonseca, Osieck, Twamley, Lenarduzzi, Miller, Bearpark, and Waiters. The problem is not always the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm not leaving the Floro bandwagon, as I don't know anyone who is better suited to transform this team in a short time frame. We tried Hart, Mitchell, Yallop, Fonseca, Osieck, Twamley, Lenarduzzi, Miller, Bearpark, and Waiters. The problem is not always the manager. Add to the list of managers names that of Barrie Clarke, I still remember attending a couple of his clinics. He was a colorful guy but that was it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Getting rid of the coach is nice idea if we can suggest one that would be a suitable replacement. That MUST be part of the conversation at this point. At the end of a cycle, that's different (like Hart, and Mitchell for example) but we are just starting out. We are committed to Flores and quite frankly I think he's the best person for the job at this point(within reason of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 ... some are very promising (Larin,Akindele, Osorio, Teibert), and some are solid (Jakovic, Edgar).. I would ad DeJong to the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Floro talks about everything that went wrong, but nothing what he did to prepare to avoid wrongs nor how he will now ensure that there are no more mistakes. But when the mistakes are with execution on the part of the players, what can he do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamR Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I don't get it, Larin doesn't miss, we qualify for the quarters. The only thing the team I saw was missing was clinical finishing, which is status quo for Canada true enough but still. If we developed someone, maybe Larin, Hamilton, Clarke, Babouli, some kid who we don't know yet, who finished at the level of a guy like Koovermans most of the problems go away. The style isn't pretty but the chances do happen but nobody is finishing, whether it's Larin's miss or Ricketts' shot right at the keeper, the oppourunities are there and with a proper defensive system, 1 goal is enough. I agree with this. There is an important difference between the chances that Canada missed in each game and the chances their opponents had. The Larin open net vs El Salvador, Rickets 1-on-1 with the keeper vs Jamaica, Haber clear shot straight at the keeper as well as the offside goal and Hainault 4-foot chance vs Costa Rica were all opportunities where the player should be expected to score almost every time. A lot, if not all, of the chances the opponents had were ones that you would have been disappointed if they weren't thwarted with good defensive counters and/or good saves. I don't doubt that different player selection may have resulted in even more quality chances for Canada but at the same time maybe Floro knows a bit more than us about the detriment to the defensive organization these changes may have had. Substitutions are another story and I agree it would have been nice to see Akindele brought on late in the match vs Costa Rica when we needed a goal. Too often in the past Canada has been able to get their goals but you almost always knew there was going to be a few defensive lapses that could and often would be their undoing. I know that I for one will always gladly take a very tight defense with a guarantee of at least one or two high quality scoring chances that should be converted 9 times out of 10 over goals scored at the expense of multiple defensive lapses and break downs that are highly likely to be converted by the opponent. The fact of the matter is that even though Canada may have been out-shot I definitely believe when it comes to chances that really should have been scored Canada performed better than their opponents over the three matches. When this happens in a three match round-robin group stage combined with a defense that only concedes once it's reasonable to expect a high probability of going through to the next round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingback6 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 On We were one Bryan Ruiz goal line clearance away from advancing. When a world class AM's biggest contribution to a game is to scramble a ball off of his own goal line, you've had a pretty good day. I missed the Jamaica game, but we the boys were rock solid against El Salvador and Costa Rica. One, maybe two chances more and I think we would have potted one and been through. Slim margins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Now is definitely not the time to dump Floro. We need to see out the cycle with stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 ^ This. As disappointing as the GC was, we need stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Someone like Floro who has a history of changing jobs every 2 years on average does not has a history of stability. His new cycle is now completed and is time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcalibre Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Were we a missed Larin/Hainault chance away from the quarters? No, because that's not how football works. We would've changed tack in either game and possibly conceded by bunkering too hard. It's like saying we were a few Stamatopoulos saves away from being completely blown out. Who else can replace Floro? John van't Schip wanted the job before Floro got it. Hell, Bircham has just as much international coaching experience as Floro had. He helped bring Petrasso and Carreiro through at QPR and has been through enough CONCACAF hackfests to know his way around. Goran Miscevic has coached in the CSL and the Middle East and has some international experience as part of Iraq's coaching staff. I'd take Enzo Concina over Floro any day as well... any of these guys would probably be on a far lighter salary as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What would those coaches bring exactly that Floro hasn't? The players love Floro, take note. I don't think there's one player in that room who would put the loss or their performance on their coach. They respect him, he has coached and was president of the biggest club in the world. You don't get those two positions by accident. Would Miscevic or van't Schip teach us how to finish somehow better than Floro? Doubtful. It would be the same bland predictable footy, managers don't change that at the international level. Not with countries like us anyhow, we have a set pool and that's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.